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Wanna Tube Mic To Go With Your PRE-73?...
Old 20th December 2010
  #61
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Arrow Holy Grail or Holy ****e?

I've had the same thought as Mitchell; how can so many people not agree on a simple premise; do U67's and other "supermics" have something that other mics can't even touch? Is there something physically responsible for this exceptional quality, or is this a case of human nature and people needing to imagine a greater difference than there is to prevent themselves from seeing they had overspent by thousands on a microphone?

There is, of course, a fairly simple answer to this question: if, as some have assured me, there is a 20-30% difference in the sonic quality of a Neumann over any mic under $700 in a recent thread, can we please get a shootout of about 10 mics, all through the same fairly transparent preamp (Great River?) on maybe male voice, female voice, acoustic guitar, and maybe overhead drum mic?

Then, those that assert that Neumanns stand head-and-shoulders above any other mic can clearly tell us which are the Neumanns and which aren't, and we can end this speculation once and for all. Yes?

Would those asserting the superiority of the Neumann agree to participate in this as a fair test?
Old 20th December 2010
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zencatt View Post
I've had the same thought as Mitchell; how can so many people not agree on a simple premise; do U67's and other "supermics" have something that other mics can't even touch? Is there something physically responsible for this exceptional quality, or is this a case of human nature and people needing to imagine a greater difference than there is to prevent themselves from seeing they had overspent by thousands on a microphone?

There is, of course, a fairly simple answer to this question: if, as some have assured me, there is a 20-30% difference in the sonic quality of a Neumann over any mic under $700 in a recent thread, can we please get a shootout of about 10 mics, all through the same fairly transparent preamp (Great River?) on maybe male voice, female voice, acoustic guitar, and maybe overhead drum mic?

Then, those that assert that Neumanns stand head-and-shoulders above any other mic can clearly tell us which are the Neumanns and which aren't, and we can end this speculation once and for all. Yes?

Would those asserting the superiority of the Neumann agree to participate in this as a fair test?
That would be nice if someone could do that, but I'm afraid it would open up a new round of bickering about how the shootout was done, mic placement, the "sweet spot" issue, proximity/mic, pre's used, etc. etc. blah blah. The only way I see one working, is to take the most neutral mic ever made (or some alien device that everyone could agree on for the baseline), and sample a vocal into a DAW. Then, maneuver each mic in front of the same agreed upon monitor speaker (doing this so that there's no debate about the singer drinking tea w/ honey before he sings into a particular mic or some other egregious, non scientific foul) so it sounds at it's best....And then compare the clips. Elec Guitar would be easy if a sampling pedal was used and just replay the sample into each mic thru the cab using the same method as the vocal (that way there's no issue about the artist playing it different or mic placement). Doing it one mic at a time and putting each mic where it sounds the best (and we'd have to TRUST someone to do that accordingly) is the only way I see it happening and truly give each mic it's chance to shine where it shines.

I don't know, I'm grasping here and I know we're supposed to "use our ears" but if the shootouts are not "done right" as some suggest, the cost of doing that is, again, buying mics just to try out and hope we aren't getting stabbed in the arse for it. I don't know about you guys, but I'm about 'thread reading' and 'sound clip' weary from all this and still don't know who to believe. Like I said, if there's not a level of trust, then I'm back where I started when I came here.

I also agree with you that a lot of how something sounds to somebody can be in direct correlation to the amount of money they paid for it, and that goes for both the high and low end. If they said to you the 20-30 percent difference is what you're paying for, that's significant. I've heard the shootouts, and so have you, there's no way there's 20-30% difference in the "sonic quality" of some of these modded mics against some classics. Even some $500 mics sound close...30%- that's night and day. More like sub 15-10% I'd say, and sub 5% on others. If the N badge sounded THAT much better than these other mics, I'm afraid I'd have no choice but to buy them. So unless all the shooutouts were skewed in favor of the low end stuff, I don't hear that big of a difference. Not to mention, the modders around here wouldn't be selling many mics if that were the case. But my ears are busted up a bit from decades of Paiste Cymbals in them, and the hours of phukin "shootouts" I've been subjecting them too recently.

I'm with you, I wish we could have a true comparison, if one actually exists, that everyone could agree on.

Merry Christmas Zencatt!
Mitchell
Old 20th December 2010
  #63
Registered User
 

Respectfully, you are putting WAY to much emphasis on 'shootouts.' The real question for everyone is: do you know what sounds good? And by good, I mean plenty good enough for any purpose.

So...Do you know when you've captured a good sound? Because if you do, then you will manage your gear and will truly know what is weak and have the ability to recognize the what's and the why's of your recordings.

Like finding and solving problem frequencies. How best to set a time based effect. How to find the sweet spot on a compressor. How to 'carve' a mix.

In no way shape or form will buying a Neumann help you with ANY of these skills.

Also, as long as you stay away from mics with wild frequency responses, you'll be able to dial in presence (which frequencies are those?) and richness (again- where's that at). And you will become a better engineer for it.

Oh, and if you want to have a fun exercise- find a vocal sound that you just think sounds incredible. Then try and recreate that sound, with the gear that you have. There's your shootout. One you'll actually learn from.
Old 20th December 2010
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slaphappy View Post
Respectfully, you are putting WAY to much emphasis on 'shootouts.' The real question for everyone is: do you know what sounds good? And by good, I mean plenty good enough for any purpose.

So...Do you know when you've captured a good sound? Because if you do, then you will manage your gear and will truly know what is weak and have the ability to recognize the what's and the why's of your recordings.

Like finding and solving problem frequencies. How best to set a time based effect. How to find the sweet spot on a compressor. How to 'carve' a mix.

In no way shape or form will buying a Neumann help you with ANY of these skills.

Also, as long as you stay away from mics with wild frequency responses, you'll be able to dial in presence (which frequencies are those?) and richness (again- where's that at). And you will become a better engineer for it.

Oh, and if you want to have a fun exercise- find a vocal sound that you just think sounds incredible. Then try and recreate that sound, with the gear that you have. There's your shootout. One you'll actually learn from.
Old 20th December 2010
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slaphappy View Post
Respectfully, you are putting WAY to much emphasis on 'shootouts.' The real question for everyone is: do you know what sounds good? And by good, I mean plenty good enough for any purpose.

So...Do you know when you've captured a good sound? Because if you do, then you will manage your gear and will truly know what is weak and have the ability to recognize the what's and the why's of your recordings.

Like finding and solving problem frequencies. How best to set a time based effect. How to find the sweet spot on a compressor. How to 'carve' a mix.

In no way shape or form will buying a Neumann help you with ANY of these skills.

Also, as long as you stay away from mics with wild frequency responses, you'll be able to dial in presence (which frequencies are those?) and richness (again- where's that at). And you will become a better engineer for it.

Oh, and if you want to have a fun exercise- find a vocal sound that you just think sounds incredible. Then try and recreate that sound, with the gear that you have. There's your shootout. One you'll actually learn from.
No doubt this is true, but as far as putting too much stock in the shootouts, I personally don't because as I said, all things being equal, mics by their design perform at different levels on different sources and where they're placed, as you well know. That's all I was saying. For those that want shootouts to actually hear what something sounds like, and I do in a lot of cases, I just wish there was a better way of doing it. It takes a lot of time to get set up (and a big thank you to all those who do it), but at the end, it still makes it somewhat difficult to choose a mic without being apprehensive about the purchase due to all the variables involved. At least in my case. Then you you add the agendas and whatever opinions that get thrown in and it's chaos. Even the freq response on some well regarded mics look very similar to ones that are regarded as crap in some cases and they're in no way out in left field. What to do then? My whole issue is not trying to get out of using my ears, what little I have, but just to get decent gear the first time around and not have to weed thru it like I've done so many times before.

The great thing to me is just the fact there are so many great sounding tools out there now that I can actually afford to do some recordings that sound halfway decent. Yippee!

Thanks for your insight.

Cheers!
Mitchell
Old 20th December 2010
  #66
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Talking

The only way a shootout ever really matters is when its unprompted, unbiased and done in a manner where its completely disconnected to the manufacturer or source of the products in question.

I hate doing my own shootouts, I hate the concept of explaining why things were done like this or that. I don't like the premise of it at all.

I know that the only way a person can shoot out our mics is to possess it for a period of time, but if I'm not present and JJ Audio is not doing the shootout, I feel much better about it.

I recently was made aware that an owner of our Pitbull microphone did a shootout and posted it on gearslutz, he shot out the mic against an 80s AKG 414 and several ADK mics that he had in his locker.

He posted the results on the shootouts forum and emailed me.

This was more validating as a member of the JJ Audio team than anything I could do on my own or in conjunction with someone else because it was as natural a scenario as I can think of.

Taking my mics to a studio, doing the shootout myself, posting the results and clips myself etc etc puts whatever I did into the same realm as the posted charts and frequency response claims from any manufacturer and therefore seeks only in the end to be called into question as truly valid and honest, irregardless of my actual character and good intentions.

People have always addressed this in the consumer reports world viz inflated specs on car stereos or recording gear viz finagled graphs on speakers and microphones etc etc etc...

Its not the same as a 3rd party taking a mic, putting it up against several others and posting the results (Consequences be damned) on the internet without you knowing or being given a chance to address it. POINT BLANK.

That's why I'm always glad to hear what the end user can do with a microphone on their own.

Sometimes I listen to microphones that sound AWESOME in shootouts and then hear what a guy does at home with it and you'd think they were different microphones.

Sometimes I listen to microphones that sound BLEH in shootouts and then hear what someone does at home and its like WOW!!!

True story:

I had a guy ask me the other day what I did to get the vocal sound on my band's album. This guy owns some great gear. Imagine how weird I felt telling him it was a STOCK Rode NT1a into a Rane MS1b to a dbx 163x to an ART PRO VLA. These were the pre JJ Audio days lol.


Just sayin.

Peace
Illumination
Old 20th December 2010
  #67
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Talking

Happy Holidays btw!

Happy Hanukkah!

Merry Christmas!

Happy Ramadan!

Happy Kwanzaa! !

and all the other winter Holidays/Holy Days!!

Peace Love and Blessings to you all!

Peace
Illumination/Langston Masingale
Old 20th December 2010
  #68
Registered User
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhs2xs View Post
No doubt this is true, but as far as putting too much stock in the shootouts, I personally don't because as I said, all things being equal, mics by their design perform at different levels on different sources and where they're placed, as you well know. That's all I was saying. For those that want shootouts to actually hear what something sounds like, and I do in a lot of cases, I just wish there was a better way of doing it.
Mitchell
Hmmm....so on one hand you're saying that a mic's 'performance' is dependent upon many variables, and on the other hand, a shootout will tell you 'what a mic actually sounds like.' You see the contradiction, right?

I understand, but coming from someone who has purchased gear based both on reviews and on sound clips, I can tell you unequivocally, that you have to get the mic into your hands!!! Only then will you know.

Case in point: the Miktek cv4. Killer reviews from all different users. Amazing reviews....and some very nice sounding vocal samples. So I got one. Guess what? I didn't like it. I sent it back. The beauty of buying from retailers with generous return policies (sweetwater, in this case). I could listen to shootouts all day long and not know that I wouldn't like the mic.

Ultimately, the only opinion that matters is yours. And the only way to tell if something is right for you is to try it. Honestly.

Last point (and you probably already know this): don't buy anything that you cannot afford! And don't put tools on a pedestal.

I'm saying all of this to myself, as much as I'm saying it to you.

Merry merry.
Old 20th December 2010
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illacov View Post
Its not the same as a 3rd party taking a mic, putting it up against several others and posting the results (Consequences be damned) on the internet without you knowing or being given a chance to address it. POINT BLANK.

That's why I'm always glad to hear what the end user can do with a microphone on their own.
...I couldn't agree more...the idea of a shootout entirely financed by the company who's product is being evaluated would seem fine for the company's own R&D, but as a consumer marketing tool, I would tend to be suspect of the results...it's like watching a Pepsi commercial when they do blind tasting against Coca Cola...haven't seen Coke win one of those yet...if I'm going to buy a car, I'm not going to the manufacturer's website for performance specs...I'm going to reputable third party consumer ratings sites for my research...

Quote:
Originally Posted by slaphappy View Post
Case in point: the Miktek cv4. Killer reviews from all different users. Amazing reviews....and some very nice sounding vocal samples. So I got one. Guess what? I didn't like it. I sent it back. The beauty of buying from retailers with generous return policies (sweetwater, in this case). I could listen to shootouts all day long and not know that I wouldn't like the mic.
...I think the hype on that mic was way over the top...the guy here on GS who was raving about it for the last few months, just put it up in the classifieds a few days ago...guess he didn't think it was a keeper either...

...at this pricepoint of just $350, I think the expectations become much more realistic, and the build quality and performance at that cost is quite impressive...

...while I'm anxious to get some sound files up, I'm more interested in hearing the opinion of others who are actually using the mic...
Old 20th December 2010
  #70
Registered User
 

To me, the big thing is whether the mic can be returned if I don't like it. Nothing worse then buying something and being stuck with it, or having to sell it at a loss. Seriously.

And it looks like the only return policy on this Stellar is if it arrives DOA. If he gave a 7 day satisfaction return policy, I'd be much more likely to give 'er a go.

Otherwise....not so much. Been burned too many times, and I'm tired of the cycle.

Cheers!
Old 20th December 2010
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slaphappy View Post
Hmmm....so on one hand you're saying that a mic's 'performance' is dependent upon many variables, and on the other hand, a shootout will tell you 'what a mic actually sounds like.' You see the contradiction, right?

I understand, but coming from someone who has purchased gear based both on reviews and on sound clips, I can tell you unequivocally, that you have to get the mic into your hands!!! Only then will you know.

Case in point: the Miktek cv4. Killer reviews from all different users. Amazing reviews....and some very nice sounding vocal samples. So I got one. Guess what? I didn't like it. I sent it back. The beauty of buying from retailers with generous return policies (sweetwater, in this case). I could listen to shootouts all day long and not know that I wouldn't like the mic.

Ultimately, the only opinion that matters is yours. And the only way to tell if something is right for you is to try it. Honestly.

Last point (and you probably already know this): don't buy anything that you cannot afford! And don't put tools on a pedestal.

I'm saying all of this to myself, as much as I'm saying it to you.

Merry merry.
I think you're reading in too much to what I'm saying. I said "to actually hear what something sounds like" just to get an idea. Not "to hear what it actually sounds like" because that is gonna be subjective for the very reasons you and I mentioned. See what I mean? It's just to get a general idea based on whatever source is being recorded. In the sea of stuff out there that's what is the most difficult and there may be no avoiding buying a turd. I'm just trying to keep it to a minimum. I appreciate your candor and everything you're saying is what I try to do.

Thanks again and a Merry Merry back to you and yours.

Cheers!
Mitchell
Old 20th December 2010
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slaphappy View Post
To me, the big thing is whether the mic can be returned if I don't like it. Nothing worse then buying something and being stuck with it, or having to sell it at a loss. Seriously.

And it looks like the only return policy on this Stellar is if it arrives DOA. If he gave a 7 day satisfaction return policy, I'd be much more likely to give 'er a go.

Otherwise....not so much. Been burned too many times, and I'm tired of the cycle.

Cheers!
Yeah, I worry about that too and won't buy mics from my local GC after I was told that very thing. They said it was a biohazard issue? I said, OK, I'll bio'em from somewhere else then.
Old 20th December 2010
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illacov View Post
The only way a shootout ever really matters is when its unprompted, unbiased and done in a manner where its completely disconnected to the manufacturer or source of the products in question.

I hate doing my own shootouts, I hate the concept of explaining why things were done like this or that. I don't like the premise of it at all.

I know that the only way a person can shoot out our mics is to possess it for a period of time, but if I'm not present and JJ Audio is not doing the shootout, I feel much better about it.

I recently was made aware that an owner of our Pitbull microphone did a shootout and posted it on gearslutz, he shot out the mic against an 80s AKG 414 and several ADK mics that he had in his locker.

He posted the results on the shootouts forum and emailed me.

This was more validating as a member of the JJ Audio team than anything I could do on my own or in conjunction with someone else because it was as natural a scenario as I can think of.

Taking my mics to a studio, doing the shootout myself, posting the results and clips myself etc etc puts whatever I did into the same realm as the posted charts and frequency response claims from any manufacturer and therefore seeks only in the end to be called into question as truly valid and honest, irregardless of my actual character and good intentions.

People have always addressed this in the consumer reports world viz inflated specs on car stereos or recording gear viz finagled graphs on speakers and microphones etc etc etc...

Its not the same as a 3rd party taking a mic, putting it up against several others and posting the results (Consequences be damned) on the internet without you knowing or being given a chance to address it. POINT BLANK.

That's why I'm always glad to hear what the end user can do with a microphone on their own.

Sometimes I listen to microphones that sound AWESOME in shootouts and then hear what a guy does at home with it and you'd think they were different microphones.

Sometimes I listen to microphones that sound BLEH in shootouts and then hear what someone does at home and its like WOW!!!

True story:

I had a guy ask me the other day what I did to get the vocal sound on my band's album. This guy owns some great gear. Imagine how weird I felt telling him it was a STOCK Rode NT1a into a Rane MS1b to a dbx 163x to an ART PRO VLA. These were the pre JJ Audio days lol.


Just sayin.

Peace
Illumination
Thanks for your post and as always, I take what you say very seriously. My problem is, since this is not a business for me (yet), it's difficult to justify getting mics just to try at this point because of the logisitics of when I can record something to try them out. So I'm just being extra cautious I guess.

Anyway...you, you're family and everybody at JJ have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year as well.

Cheers!
Mitchell
Old 20th December 2010
  #74
Registered User
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhs2xs View Post
They said it was a biohazard issue? I said, OK, I'll bio'em from somewhere else then.
heh
Old 20th December 2010
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slaphappy View Post
To me, the big thing is whether the mic can be returned if I don't like it. Nothing worse then buying something and being stuck with it, or having to sell it at a loss. Seriously.

And it looks like the only return policy on this Stellar is if it arrives DOA. If he gave a 7 day satisfaction return policy, I'd be much more likely to give 'er a go.

Otherwise....not so much. Been burned too many times, and I'm tired of the cycle.

Cheers!
...I agree, BUT, there's a reason why Stellar can't offer it on this mic...markup...let's just say, another reputable "pre-modded" mic is selling for literally twice the price (same quality, same factory, same mods)...now at that markup, the seller can offer a generous return policy...but in this case the seller is working on much tighter margins...making such an open-ended return policy, remember, we're talking about buying the mics off of eBay, not the seller's own website (which Stellar is planning to setup)...that could be very dicey...offering eBay buyers a 7-day return policy on a microphone (many retail vendors do not take mics back based on health code policies) with tight margins, paying fees to both eBay and Paypal just make it dangerous...

...I'd recommend contacting Peter directly and discussing the trial purchase (sidestepping eBay)...he seems like a reasonable guy...just a thought...

...also consider this...the stock Nady TCM1050 is $229...so what is a bigger, better quality K67 capsule ($75...very similar to Peluso's CEK67), an upgraded BV8 style transformer ($58), a revised, more refined EF86 tube circuit (?), and a brand new, pre-tested TungSol EF806 tube ($35) worth to you?...$120 looks like a bargain to me (even if you do your own mods, the price of these upgraded components would cost more)...but I'm not even thinking about sending back or craigslisting mine...
Old 20th December 2010
  #76
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhs2xs View Post
Thanks for your post and as always, I take what you say very seriously. My problem is, since this is not a business for me (yet), it's difficult to justify getting mics just to try at this point because of the logisitics of when I can record something to try them out. So I'm just being extra cautious I guess.

Anyway...you, you're family and everybody at JJ have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year as well.

Cheers!
Mitchell
Of course this is the case with anything. You can't state it any truer than that.

Look at the recent Toyota debacle. Of course nobodies brakes failed at the factory.

With any shootout done by the company itself what do you expect the results to come out like?

Even if the results are like WOW that mic RAWKS!

Its still not as legitimate as something that didn't originate in house or come into existence VIA the interested party.

Why do you think I'm not going to a studio and booking time to show how our mics sound against the tried and true classics?
I know what they sound like against them already.

But why on earth would you believe me? I work for JJ Audio LOL

I want to see what our mics fare like in the hands of capable professionals.

Thankfully alot of our customers are actually VERY capable professionals with "A" list credits to back it up.

No shootout is ever going to beat the rush I got when Ronnie Spector recorded with our Pitbull microphones or when Baby Bash recorded with the Akita or when I got an email from an assistant engineer on the Kanye West album "My Beautiful Dark Fantasy," and he wanted a Chocolate Lab Deluxe, so he could try it on Kanye West.

Nothing beat the rush I got the day I spoke to
BRUCE SWEDIEN on the phone about trying out our microphones.

What is a shootout compared to the endorsements you get from the recording engineer gods on high?

Enough preaching to the choir.
**ON TOPIC MODE**


The GAP 73 is a really good preamp that can be made great with a few simple mods. I feel like stuff that has a darker tone fairs better in most cases with stuff that's clear and open sounding. In this case, I think something like a C12 with the GAP73, something like a C800G, something like a U67, u87 you get the picture. Of these 3 are tube microphones. I will be the first to say that considering the price range if the Stellar CM6 holds water, then its a no brainer to get the CM6 and the GAP73 for under 7 or 800 bucks in their stock form.

Who knows the CM6 might have a really nice top end that will be very mellowfied with the GAP73.

I mean there's a good deal of microphones that cost 800 bucks or more by themselves so the fact that you can nab a combo like this is NUTS!

Peace
Illumination
Old 20th December 2010
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illacov View Post
Of course this is the case with anything. You can't state it any truer than that.

Look at the recent Toyota debacle. Of course nobodies brakes failed at the factory.

With any shootout done by the company itself what do you expect the results to come out like?

Even if the results are like WOW that mic RAWKS!

Its still not as legitimate as something that didn't originate in house or come into existence VIA the interested party.

Why do you think I'm not going to a studio and booking time to show how our mics sound against the tried and true classics?
I know what they sound like against them already.

But why on earth would you believe me? I work for JJ Audio LOL

I want to see what our mics fare like in the hands of capable professionals.

Thankfully alot of our customers are actually VERY capable professionals with "A" list credits to back it up.

No shootout is ever going to beat the rush I got when Ronnie Spector recorded with our Pitbull microphones or when Baby Bash recorded with the Akita or when I got an email from an assistant engineer on the Kanye West album "My Beautiful Dark Fantasy," and he wanted a Chocolate Lab Deluxe, so he could try it on Kanye West.

Nothing beat the rush I got the day I spoke to
BRUCE SWEDIEN on the phone about trying out our microphones.

What is a shootout compared to the endorsements you get from the recording engineer gods on high?

Enough preaching to the choir.
**ON TOPIC MODE**


The GAP 73 is a really good preamp that can be made great with a few simple mods. I feel like stuff that has a darker tone fairs better in most cases with stuff that's clear and open sounding. In this case, I think something like a C12 with the GAP73, something like a C800G, something like a U67, u87 you get the picture. Of these 3 are tube microphones. I will be the first to say that considering the price range if the Stellar CM6 holds water, then its a no brainer to get the CM6 and the GAP73 for under 7 or 800 bucks in their stock form.

Who knows the CM6 might have a really nice top end that will be very mellowfied with the GAP73.

I mean there's a good deal of microphones that cost 800 bucks or more by themselves so the fact that you can nab a combo like this is NUTS!

Peace
Illumination
That type of success garnered by yourself and others up here is why I do pay attention to your comments, as well as the comments those with credibility who own the produts. Sales pitch or not, if there's no truth to it, or it is only agenda driven for whatever reason, it will eventually come out. Making a somewhat educated and informed decision to important me because I like to learn about such things. I don't like having a tool that I don't understand what it does and why. As much as my feeble brain can contemplate anyway.

I really do hope these mics turn out to be something. I tried to call my friend who's a male baritone country artist, but couldn't get him. He'll be my most convenient guinea pig after I get them burned in to try them out.

Thanks again...

Mitchell
Old 21st December 2010
  #78
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...just received 2 NOS Valvo E80F tubes which I will be burning in tonight and testing tomorrow (I also have 4 NOS Amperex Bugle Boy EF86/6267 tubes coming for testing)...I will evaluate and report as to whether the NOS tubes offers any improvement over the stock premium TungSol EF806 that is included with the CM-6...

E80F @ The National Valve Museum

...I also have a vocal session booked for tomorrow and hopefully I'll have time to track a few samples I can post here...
Attached Thumbnails
Wanna Tube Mic To Go With Your PRE-73?...-valvoe80f.jpg   Wanna Tube Mic To Go With Your PRE-73?...-amperexbbef86.jpg  
Old 21st December 2010
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidvybes View Post
...just received 2 NOS Valvo E80F tubes which I will be burning in tonight and testing tomorrow (I also have 4 NOS Amperex Bugle Boy EF86/6267 tubes coming for testing)...I will evaluate and report as to whether the NOS tubes offers any improvement over the stock premium TungSol EF806 that is included with the CM-6...

E80F @ The National Valve Museum

...I also have a vocal session booked for tomorrow and hopefully I'll have time to track a few samples I can post here...
Thank you...Patiently waiting....
Old 21st December 2010
  #80
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...in an effort to in instill further confidence in the CM-6's build quality, I am posting circuit pics of 3 different mics with dramatically different pricepoints, but the similarities in components should prove interesting...notice in all three, the use of a large rectangular metallized film cap...from the left, the $350 CM-6, in the middle the $735 CM-47, and on the right the $1800 2247LE...the 2247LE's transformer is mounted in the barrel below the circuit board...
Attached Thumbnails
Wanna Tube Mic To Go With Your PRE-73?...-stellarcm6.jpg   Wanna Tube Mic To Go With Your PRE-73?...-aacm47.jpg   Wanna Tube Mic To Go With Your PRE-73?...-2247le.jpg  
Old 22nd December 2010
  #81
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidvybes View Post
...in an effort to in instill further confidence in the CM-6's build quality, I am posting circuit pics of 3 different mics with dramatically different pricepoints, but the similarities in components should prove interesting...notice in all three, the use of a large rectangular metallized film cap...from the left, the $350 CM-6, in the middle the $735 CM-47, and on the right the $1800 2247LE...
Crazy!!!!thumbsup
Old 22nd December 2010
  #82
Gear Nut
 
Zencatt's Avatar
 

;-)

Merry Christmas/Holidays to Mitchell and all else, thanks always to those willing to share their knowledge and info in great deals with poorly-funded home studio folks like myself.

My posting regarding a shootout vs. the Neumanns was mostly rhetorical in nature; I knew it would be unlikely to be done, but I wondered what kind of response it would get from those that insist that the German masterpieces produce a quality of sound impossible to approach with mics costing less than $700. Of interest is the fact that I don't think I got a response that anyone would be willing to participate in choosing mics blindly and putting the reputation of their "ear" on the line (though I admit, that doesn't necessarily answer the question of how much better a Neumann mic is ultimately). I just wish these folks were as vocal in participating in a "blind" listening test as they are in slamming budget gear...

Can't wait to hear some more reports on the CM-6, though I'm trying to calm my gear lust until I actually get some recording done...

And regarding Michael J's outburst earlier in this thread: ugly. Count to 10 next time, you're not the only one allowed an opinion on here, even if the discussion is about people bypassing "exclusive rights" through international shopping and alternate streams of certain company's mics...
Old 22nd December 2010
  #83
Lives for gear
 
Michael_Joly's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zencatt View Post
...And regarding Michael J's outburst earlier in this thread: ugly. Count to 10 next time, you're not the only one allowed an opinion on here, even if the discussion is about people bypassing "exclusive rights" through international shopping and alternate streams of certain company's mics...
Thanks for the advice Pop.

As soon as Jules get's his "thread reporting" function implemented please be sure to go through and tag mine will you? I think my 'outburst' probably qualifies under the "bad language", "manufacturer posting only to generate sales", "insults", "political / religious" and "flogging a dead horse" categories. But that's only my opinion - you might want to check with hgen, guitars-from-mars, uncle duncan, kidvybes and the rest of that club.


__________________
Old 22nd December 2010
  #84
Gear Nut
 
Zencatt's Avatar
 

* wink *

Hey Binky,

I'm glad to offer the advice, my day job involves shepherding those lacking social skills through difficult scenarios, so it's all in a day's work.

thumbsup And I forgot about the thread reporting link, thanks for that, will do!
Old 22nd December 2010
  #85
Lives for gear
 
theproduca's Avatar
 

Cool

And I thought that my thread about Garagic was nasty!!?? LOL!!!heh
Old 22nd December 2010
  #86
Lives for gear
 
kidvybes's Avatar
 

...if we can keep this thread focused on the subject at hand, and avoid any pointless bickering, we won't suddenly find the thread "locked" (like the iSK/Roxdon thread) due to these diversionary tactics that only benefit the perpetrator...
Old 22nd December 2010
  #87
Lives for gear
 
mhs2xs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zencatt View Post
Merry Christmas/Holidays to Mitchell and all else, thanks always to those willing to share their knowledge and info in great deals with poorly-funded home studio folks like myself.

My posting regarding a shootout vs. the Neumanns was mostly rhetorical in nature; I knew it would be unlikely to be done, but I wondered what kind of response it would get from those that insist that the German masterpieces produce a quality of sound impossible to approach with mics costing less than $700. Of interest is the fact that I don't think I got a response that anyone would be willing to participate in choosing mics blindly and putting the reputation of their "ear" on the line (though I admit, that doesn't necessarily answer the question of how much better a Neumann mic is ultimately). I just wish these folks were as vocal in participating in a "blind" listening test as they are in slamming budget gear...

Can't wait to hear some more reports on the CM-6, though I'm trying to calm my gear lust until I actually get some recording done...

And regarding Michael J's outburst earlier in this thread: ugly. Count to 10 next time, you're not the only one allowed an opinion on here, even if the discussion is about people bypassing "exclusive rights" through international shopping and alternate streams of certain company's mics...
I hear ya man. I'll say this, I wish I had the wallet hefty enough to afford the Deutschenmics to use in the shootout that you so desire. Not that I would own any, I just wish I had a fat wallet. I think I'm too skeptical in my old age and have been stabbed in the arse on so much on gear that I'm now jaded to a point. While I'm a firm believer in YGWYPF, some things are just ridiculous beyond comprehension and, I will buy it, but only when it's a sick-scary-crazy discount deal from the gods. Like an '72 U87 with 2 hours on it that was owned by a widow and only whispered into on Sundays....for $500.

As far as all the rest, I don't understand why it got to the level it did.

Merry Christmas to Ye Zencatt.

Mitchell

Edit: Dang, too slow, I post and then see more above. I'll go back to just wishing for my mics now....
Old 22nd December 2010
  #88
Lives for gear
 
Michael_Joly's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zencatt View Post
Hey Binky,

I'm glad to offer the advice, my day job involves shepherding those lacking social skills through difficult scenarios, so it's all in a day's work.

thumbsup And I forgot about the thread reporting link, thanks for that, will do!
You're welcome! My day job is working with microphones and listening to NPR. So I don't get much situational role-playing practice in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidvybes View Post
...if we can keep this thread focused on the subject at hand, and avoid any pointless bickering, we won't suddenly find the thread "locked" (like the iSK/Roxdon thread) due to these diversionary tactics that only benefit the perpetrator...
Right on spliff man! Let's report "theproduca" to Jules for going off topic and diversionary about Garagic.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #89
Lives for gear
 
kidvybes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhs2xs View Post
While I'm a firm believer in YGWYPF, some things are just ridiculous beyond comprehension and, I will buy it, but only when it's a sick-scary-crazy discount deal from the gods. Like an '72 U87 with 2 hours on it that was owned by a widow and only whispered into on Sundays....for $500.
...for the first 10 years or so that I spent in major league recording facilities in Manhattan and in Kingston, JA, I was so gear ignorant that I never asked the engineers what mics they were throwing up for a particular vocal tracking session...I trusted their judgement, and didn't know enough to tell a Neumann from a Gefell...it was years later when I asked one of my associates what were we using back then, and he started to educate me to the classics...but I'm convinced there's more "myth" attached to those legendary mics as there is necessity...most of my engineer friends have either stored away their most valuable mic assets or sold them off for the profits to be made...there's far too many viable tools in the marketplace these days, to be distracted "worshiping false idols"...
Old 22nd December 2010
  #90
Gear Maniac
 

I'm working with the CM-6 in my studio at the moment. The CM-6 is by far one of the best sounding Mic in that price range, if not the best. I will gladly do a shoot out with anyone who can provide a better mic in that price point. correction i will do a shoot out VS any mic $850 or less I'm sure this mic will hold it's own. If you not here for a shoot out stay off the thread MJ! we all find this thread educational and useful. I heard about this mic from the great Kidvybes who have help so many of us. Keep up the great work kidvybes
PS. The CM-6 is the $350 MIC that dared to take on a classic
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