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Behringer LOVE thread...
Old 15th May 2019
  #331
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retractablezing's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
You're right. They granted licenses to manufacturers, but maintained very strict standards and control.

What I said earlier was in the context of using the cassette as part of a tape-based delay. To do that, the shell would have to have a second pressure pad to correspond with the separate, offset repro head of the device. It seems unlikely to me that Philips would ever grant a license for that kind of deviation from their standard.
They wouldn't have or want to, you can do whatever you want with the design.
Old 15th May 2019
  #332
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retractablezing's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philbo King View Post
I have a 1978 Teac C3 rack mount cassette machine that has separate record & playback heads. Still works great. Has approx. 50 mSec delay between record / playback when monitoring off tape. I don't know how it holds tension on the payback head, but I suspect it is from the takeup reel motor
I also have a Marantz portable mono recorder with 3 heads that i use as a mixdown deck and tape delay. When stock, it's somewhat limited but works. There's a guy modding these as tape delays.

http://www.ondemagnetique.com/shop/cassette-tape-echo
Old 15th May 2019
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastropiero View Post
Not a bad idea but maybe it is not feasible with standard cassettes. A tape delay needs separate heads for playing and recording. A cassette tape is designed so playing and recording happen on the same head.
I don't get this, nearly all quality tape decks have 3 separate heads. Like most of the Akai GX decks starting with the GX65 up to the GX95. I have one with separate heads and "behind tape control".

Picture of the GX95 heads:





Old 15th May 2019
  #334
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Mastropiero's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philbo King View Post
I have a 1978 Teac C3 rack mount cassette machine that has separate record & playback heads. Still works great. Has approx. 50 mSec delay between record / playback when monitoring off tape. I don't know how it holds tension on the payback head, but I suspect it is from the takeup reel motor

Very interesting. I found this picture on Google:



OMG... I'm reading about it and I see I was wrong!
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassette_tape

The "head gap" of a tape recorder refers to the space, in the direction of tape movement, between the ends of the pole pieces of the head. Without a gap the head would produce a "closed" magnetic field and so would not interact sufficiently with the magnetic domains on the tape.

The head gap width[clarification needed] is 2 µm[according to whom?] which gives a theoretical maximum frequency[citation needed] of about 12 kHz (at the standard speed of 1 7/8 ips or 4.76 cm/s). A narrower gap would give a higher frequency limit but also weaker magnetization.[69] However, such limitations can be corrected through equalization in the recording and playback amplification sections, and narrower gaps were quite common, particularly in more expensive cassette machines. For example, the RP-2 series combined record/playback head (used in many Nakamichi cassette decks from the 1980s and 1990s) had a 1.2 µm gap, which allows for a playback frequency range of up to 20 kHz.[citation needed] A narrower gap width makes it harder to magnetize the tape, but is less important to the frequency range during recording than during playback, so a two-head solution can be applied: a dedicated recording head with a wide gap allowing effective magnetization of the tape and a dedicated playback head with a specific width narrow gap, possibly facilitating very high playback frequency ranges well above 20 kHz.[citation needed]

Separate record and playback heads were already a standard feature of more expensive reel-to-reel tape machines when cassettes were introduced, but their application to cassette recorders had to wait until demand developed for higher quality reproduction, and for sufficiently small heads to be produced.


Anyway, due to the short distance between heads it might be difficult to create a proper tape echo unless the tape speed was drastically reduced, but anyway it's a very interesting subject for experimentation.
Old 15th May 2019
  #335
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Mastropiero's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkP View Post
I don't get this, nearly all quality tape decks have 3 separate heads. Like most of the Akai GX decks starting with the GX65 up to the GX95. I have one with separate heads and "behind tape control".
Yeah it seems I was absolutely wrong here, but in any case, those Akai decks have individual heads but not separate (in terms of distance as needed to create a tape delay).
Old 15th May 2019
  #336
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DirkP's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastropiero View Post
Yeah it seems I was absolutely wrong here, but in any case, those Akai decks have individual heads but not separate (in terms of distance as needed to create a tape delay).
Yes, it's more for reverb:-) I had a reel to reel in the late 70s and one important factor is speed. If you have 3 different speeds like 4,8 / 9,5 and 19 you go from reverb to delay by just changing the speed.

But those Akai decks are really great. The GX heads that have glas on top last a long long time without losing high-end. And they sound better, much better than the consumer reel to reels of the 70s and 80s. The GX95 is a dream. During the late 80s and 90s the manufacturers have found ways to get the maximum out of the slow speed and narrow tape.
Old 15th May 2019
  #337
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Bstapper's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
You're right. They granted licenses to manufacturers, but maintained very strict standards and control.

What I said earlier was in the context of using the cassette as part of a tape-based delay. To do that, the shell would have to have a second pressure pad to correspond with the separate, offset repro head of the device. It seems unlikely to me that Philips would ever grant a license for that kind of deviation from their standard.
Not exactly. Don't you remember the "cleaning cassette" kits back in the day that were loops of cleaning material inside of a standard cassette?

The main issue is that even using the entire width of the tape you would have to increase the speed in order to have enough magnetic material to achieve a decent sonic performance. That would be hard on the tape and probably difficult to fit enough inside of a cassette for a loop scenario. But it is something I've thought a lot about over the years and it certainly might be possible.

I spent a good part of my youth in my Uncle's studio loading tape into cassette cartridges. First one at a time on a table similar to what would be used to wind pickups. Sketchy LED counter and all. And then a fancy hydraulic machine that required constant maintenance but could handle tons in the hopper. It would be a bit labor intensive to do loop tapes but the standard cartridge design certainly allows for such a thing within its physical space restrictions.

Cheers,
Brock
Old 15th May 2019
  #338
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Gotta give some mad props to this dude:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABU-psBnmxk
Old 18th May 2019
  #339
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Mastropiero's Avatar


@ Uli Behringer just the Prophet 5 is missing.
Old 20th May 2019
  #340
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I'm not saying Behringer makes affordable products that tend to work great. i'm just saying Beheringer makes affordable products that tend to work great......value!
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