The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Behringer LOVE thread... Studio Monitors
Old 14th April 2019
  #301
Gear Addict
 
Mastropiero's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Warmth View Post
Woah yes great idea! A real tape delay would sell like crazy... or well I'd buy one and know quite a few who would too.
Not a bad idea but maybe it is not feasible with standard cassettes. A tape delay needs separate heads for playing and recording. A cassette tape is designed so playing and recording happen on the same head.
Old 14th April 2019
  #302
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastropiero View Post
A cassette tape is designed so playing and recording happen on the same head.
Yes, and the mechanism pressing the tape against the head is built into the cassette, not the machine.
Old 14th April 2019
  #303
Gear Addict
 
Mastropiero's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Yes, and the mechanism pressing the tape against the head is built into the cassette, not the machine.
Exactly. Making a cassette based echo would need a modified cassette tape. Normal cassettes are hard to find right now. Using special cassettes would be a commercial suicide.
Old 14th April 2019
  #304
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastropiero View Post
Exactly. Making a cassette based echo would need a modified cassette tape. Normal cassettes are hard to find right now. Using special cassettes would be a commercial suicide.
Philips owns the design, or at least they did, and they sold licenses to cassette makers. So getting them to play ball on something like this might not be easy or cheap.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #305
Lives for gear
 
akai612's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rack gear View Post
I know, I know, I know... people love to hate Behringer... and then it happens, you try one piece of cheap gear as a "throwaway test" and think... well... this actually doesn't suck? then spend more time with it, and well, it's pretty good. a little more time, and well, it works as advertised, what else could you want?

recently I'm tickled with the BCF2000... just thrilled, $179 USD. I also have a ADA8000 for adding effects/sends returns... again, works as advertised, $199 USD... seriously... what's not to like? These are seriously, two great products.

I don't know what I'd outfit a whole studio with only Berhinger products, but I gotta say so far, I can't complain about the two above and their applications.

share the love if ya got it.
A lot people are going to, well not exactly love, but kind of going to like behringer a little bit more as soon as gearslutz implements a filter option that allows filtering of everything related to behringer.

In case that ueli is going to bring back jobs from his mega plant in prosperous china we'll might even going to built up a little bit of respect over the years for that brand. But only of course if it turns out that they have also improved on their little issues with built quality and copy right infringement.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #306
Gear Maniac
Hmmm so Behringer are responsible for globalization now are they? Of course when Behringer build stuff in their bespoke quality controlled factory, it's Chinese crap - but when SSL do the same it's "quality" - they can't win. Back in the 80s if you turned a channel up full on any consumer gear (and a lot of professional desks) it sounded like you're at sea - I would have killed for the noise-floor on my modern cheapo Behringer mixer (which has been 100% reliable for 5+ years) this stuff is far, far better then what us oldies had to put up with and costs peanuts - we've never had it better. In blind test most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between Behringer gear and anything else - nor indeed can the people with super-hearing state reliably what's "better" until they've taught themselves the sonic signature of a particular piece of gear and then apply their gear-snobbery retrospectively. Just check out that $50 Art preamp vs fancy-Dan higher-ender thread. Only when the truth was revealed did the preferences shift significantly from 50/50.

Buy whatever kit you can afford and make music - modern gear - at any price - will not hold you back.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #307
Gear Addict
 
Mastropiero's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scragend View Post
Hmmm so Behringer are responsible for globalization now are they? Of course when Behringer build stuff in their bespoke quality controlled factory, it's Chinese crap - but when SSL do the same it's "quality" - they can't win. Back in the 80s if you turned a channel up full on any consumer gear (and a lot of professional desks) it sounded like you're at sea - I would have killed for the noise-floor on my modern cheapo Behringer mixer (which has been 100% reliable for 5+ years) this stuff is far, far better then what us oldies had to put up with and costs peanuts - we've never had it better. In blind test most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between Behringer gear and anything else - nor indeed can the people with super-hearing state reliably what's "better" until they've taught themselves the sonic signature of a particular piece of gear and then apply their gear-snobbery retrospectively. Just check out that $50 Art preamp vs fancy-Dan higher-ender thread. Only when the truth was revealed did the preferences shift significantly from 50/50.
Agree. Quality of products made in China is just related to how you pay for the manufacturing process. If a good brand uses manufacturing facilities in China (e.g. Apple) the overall quality of the product will be still excellent because of the quality control and processes applied.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #308
So true, I once broke my only mic and had paid for a session singer to go on this dance release back in 2000. Panicked as it had to be done that evening so I used a small set of headphones and used that as a microphone instead.

Into a preamp then sampled into a maxed out E64 sampler.... cut up dodgy out of tune parts (syllable by syllable) retuned and re timed... eq'd ...resampled back into sampler...done.

It was released and the vocal held its own and sounded pretty average, no one ever commented on using the tracking headphone as a mic.

Part of me thinks that we have been taken advantage of with these modular and analog synths of late, Behringer is just hi lighting how cheap it is to actually make these things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scragend View Post
Hmmm so Behringer are responsible for globalization now are they? Of course when Behringer build stuff in their bespoke quality controlled factory, it's Chinese crap - but when SSL do the same it's "quality" - they can't win. Back in the 80s if you turned a channel up full on any consumer gear (and a lot of professional desks) it sounded like you're at sea - I would have killed for the noise-floor on my modern cheapo Behringer mixer (which has been 100% reliable for 5+ years) this stuff is far, far better then what us oldies had to put up with and costs peanuts - we've never had it better. In blind test most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between Behringer gear and anything else - nor indeed can the people with super-hearing state reliably what's "better" until they've taught themselves the sonic signature of a particular piece of gear and then apply their gear-snobbery retrospectively. Just check out that $50 Art preamp vs fancy-Dan higher-ender thread. Only when the truth was revealed did the preferences shift significantly from 50/50.

Buy whatever kit you can afford and make music - modern gear - at any price - will not hold you back.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #309
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
I hate the build quality of my Behringer Model D so I'm going to sell it.

Same reason I ended up selling my EQP-KT.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #310
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
I hate the build quality of my Behringer Model D so I'm going to sell it.

Same reason I ended up selling my EQP-KT.
Their version of the X32 that's controlled from an iPad has almost the right number of knobs and faders and buttons.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #311
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Their version of the X32 that's controlled from an iPad has almost the right number of knobs and faders and buttons.
haha! yes exactly
Old 4 weeks ago
  #312
Lives for gear
 
12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
I hate the build quality of my Behringer Model D so I'm going to sell it.

Same reason I ended up selling my EQP-KT.
You're a snob...but the good kind.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #313
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
I hate the build quality of my Behringer Model D so I'm going to sell it.

Same reason I ended up selling my EQP-KT.
Sure, you get better quality components if you spend more - but is the audio quality that much better? No. The two pieces of kit you mention sound perfectly fine - if you want to spend 10x more for inperceptible sonic improvements built with knobs that cost £1.20p each instead of £0.60p each - fine - go for it! In a professional environment you're better off spending the money for the robustness - for the rest of us - it really doesn't matter. It doesnt take much to bury yourself well into the land of diminishing returns - this wasn't always the case.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #314
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scragend View Post
Sure, you get better quality components if you spend more - but is the audio quality that much better? No. The two pieces of kit you mention sound perfectly fine - if you want to spend 10x more for inperceptible sonic improvements built with knobs that cost £1.20p each instead of £0.60p each - fine - go for it! In a professional environment you're better off spending the money for the robustness - for the rest of us - it really doesn't matter. It doesnt take much to bury yourself well into the land of diminishing returns - this wasn't always the case.
It's true, the sound quality is there to be reckoned with. To some degree.

The build quality is a problem for me. I want my gear to be robust and solid over the long term. A sense of confidence in the equipment.

As someone that builds and repairs gear I am a bit sensitive to things like that. It becomes a "deal breaker" for me.

Not always, but sometimes. Behringer is really on a fine line of qualitative reliability and value. They seem to just barely toe the line.

So in that way, the better ones they make are indeed a good value.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #315
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
It's true, the sound quality is there to be reckoned with. To some degree.

The build quality is a problem for me. I want my gear to be robust and solid over the long term. A sense of confidence in the equipment.

As someone that builds and repairs gear I am a bit sensitive to things like that. It becomes a "deal breaker" for me.

Not always, but sometimes. Behringer is really on a fine line of qualitative reliability and value. They seem to just barely toe the line.

So in that way, the better ones they make are indeed a good value.
I totally get that - I'd happily pay twice as much for a quality piece of kit - but not 5,10,20 times as much - which is often the reality. To me, Behringer is not expensive stuff made cheap - it's a marker of what mass produced stuff should cost. As far as I'm concerned if anything costs more than three times the cost of an equivalent Behringer product - then you're paying for a badge. Sure, if something is handmade then you're paying for labour - other than that - I'm out!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #316
In the end, you need to sit down with a piece of gear and play it. If you connect with it, then that’s the one to choose likely. Now I am not going to even bother playing a Macbeth synth due to cost.

But If you play a decent amount of modern synths, some will feel better than others and will respond differently to your actions. I don’t know, I buy instruments so this talk of price vs value is weird..
Old 5 days ago
  #317
Gear Addict
 
The Warmth's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastropiero View Post
Not a bad idea but maybe it is not feasible with standard cassettes. A tape delay needs separate heads for playing and recording. A cassette tape is designed so playing and recording happen on the same head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Yes, and the mechanism pressing the tape against the head is built into the cassette, not the machine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastropiero View Post
Exactly. Making a cassette based echo would need a modified cassette tape. Normal cassettes are hard to find right now. Using special cassettes would be a commercial suicide.
I'm not sure if we're thinking about the same thing. But what I was thinking about was like the T-rex replicator tape delay which sounds amazing. It's expensive but I think it could be done cheaper. The great thing is that it sounds like an Watkins Copycat without a lot of the hassles and most importantly - can be used for mixing, if you like mixing with guitar pedals.

They seem to make their own tape cartridges for these machines.

Unfortunately T-Rex have just filed for bankruptcy but would be a cool opportunity for someone like Behringer to make a similar tape delay.
Old 5 days ago
  #318
Gear Addict
 
Mastropiero's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Warmth View Post
I'm not sure if we're thinking about the same thing. But what I was thinking about was like the T-rex replicator tape delay which sounds amazing. It's expensive but I think it could be done cheaper. The great thing is that it sounds like an Watkins Copycat without a lot of the hassles and most importantly - can be used for mixing, if you like mixing with guitar pedals.

They seem to make their own tape cartridges for these machines.

Unfortunately T-Rex have just filed for bankruptcy but would be a cool opportunity for someone like Behringer to make a similar tape delay.
The T-Rex uses a proprietary cartridge containing the tape and separate heads.

This approach is just impossible with a standard cassette (if that's what you first meant to say). Behringer in that case would have to design and make a new tape format but I don't think it's their business.

Anyway, I'd be extremely happy if Uli decided to go for it.
Old 5 days ago
  #319
Lives for gear
 
retractablezing's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Philips owns the design, or at least they did, and they sold licenses to cassette makers. So getting them to play ball on something like this might not be easy or cheap.
Actually that's not accurate. Supposedly, and according to one of the main inventors (Lou Ottens), Philips didn't even patent the cassette design (on purpose), they met with several brands, notably Sony, and their one condition for companies to use the design was that there had to be a standard, and this standard should be adopted by all, otherwise chaos would ensue.

There seems to have been licenses, which to me contradicts the fact that there was no patent, but they were free of charge to any brand that wished to use the format as long as it did so according to the standard defined by Philips. It's quite well documented and there's even a doc (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4236310/) on the subject where Lou Ottens talks about the lack of patent on screen.

Philips was actually one of the most benevolent, altruist and forward thinking large corporations that ever existed, a true example in many areas, especially workers' benefits, so i'm never surprised by the way this sort of major, potentially history defining, thing was handled by them. And there were quite a few of these.
Old 5 days ago
  #320
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scragend View Post
Hmmm so Behringer are responsible for globalization now are they? Of course when Behringer build stuff in their bespoke quality controlled factory, it's Chinese crap - but when SSL do the same it's "quality" - they can't win. Back in the 80s if you turned a channel up full on any consumer gear (and a lot of professional desks) it sounded like you're at sea - I would have killed for the noise-floor on my modern cheapo Behringer mixer (which has been 100% reliable for 5+ years) this stuff is far, far better then what us oldies had to put up with and costs peanuts - we've never had it better. In blind test most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between Behringer gear and anything else - nor indeed can the people with super-hearing state reliably what's "better" until they've taught themselves the sonic signature of a particular piece of gear and then apply their gear-snobbery retrospectively. Just check out that $50 Art preamp vs fancy-Dan higher-ender thread. Only when the truth was revealed did the preferences shift significantly from 50/50.

Buy whatever kit you can afford and make music - modern gear - at any price - will not hold you back.
No actually when a company is constantly sued and sues people for calling them out (including GS members), they are sleazy, no matter their bespoke factory.

In my experience they make cheap crap that breaks, and there's a lot better cheap gear out there.... Hey "at any price" certainly ain't holding you back even if it's supporting shady ethics.....good luck with that!.....
Old 5 days ago
  #321
Gear Addict
 
Mastropiero's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
No actually when a company is constantly sued and sues people for calling them out (including GS members), they are sleazy, no matter their bespoke factory.

In my experience they make cheap crap that breaks, and there's a lot better cheap gear out there.... Hey "at any price" certainly ain't holding you back even if it's supporting shady ethics.....good luck with that!.....
Just your experience. In my case my Behringer units have worked far way better than most ‘made in America’ items I’ve owned.

Because of that I stopped buying any instrument or equipment made in America some years ago and I’m very happy with that. I recommend everyone do the same.
Old 5 days ago
  #322
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastropiero View Post
Just your experience. In my case my Behringer units have worked far way better than most ‘made in America’ items I’ve owned.

Because of that I stopped buying any instrument or equipment made in America some years ago and I’m very happy with that. I recommend everyone do the same.
Sure my experience but Google Behringer GS lawsuit.

https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2...llion-dollars/

A real sweetheart you're supporting....went after 20 people on this forum for $250K....
and lost........
Old 5 days ago
  #323
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Warmth View Post
Unfortunately T-Rex have just filed for bankruptcy...
Yes, but they're back up and running again ;-)
Old 5 days ago
  #324
Gear Addict
 
Mastropiero's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
Sure my experience but Google Behringer GS lawsuit.

https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2...llion-dollars/

A real sweetheart you're supporting....went after 20 people on this forum for $250K....
and lost........
And?

What's that got to do with your Behringer gear's failure?

And BTW, it's very common that companies sue other companies or individuals. It's legit to do it and if they're wrong, the judges will say. What's wrong with that? You are also ignoring that Behringer have been sued many times.

For example, the American company inMusic (BTW, one of the worst audio companies in terms of build quality and reliability) sued Roland, Roland sued Behringer, Behringer sued Dave Smith, San Diego Tech sued Korg and Yamaha, Tom Oberheim sued Buchla... that's how it works.
Old 5 days ago
  #325
Gear Addict
 
Mastropiero's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by retractablezing View Post
Philips was actually one of the most benevolent, altruist and forward thinking large corporations that ever existed, a true example in many areas, especially workers' benefits, so i'm never surprised by the way this sort of major, potentially history defining, thing was handled by them. And there were quite a few of these.
It seems you're right (according to some Dutch people I know). I haven't purchased any Philips gear in the last 20 years, but I bought some TV sets and Philips home computers back in the 80s and they all were perfect machines; perfect design, very reliable, excellent price and support...

They also were heavily involved in the CD development as well as the digital audio standard S/PDIF. Undoubtedly, Philips have played an undeniable role in the music industry development.
Old 5 days ago
  #326
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastropiero View Post
And?

What's that got to do with your Behringer gear's failure?

And BTW, it's very common that companies sue other companies or individuals. It's legit to do it and if they're wrong, the judges will say. What's wrong with that? You are also ignoring that Behringer have been sued many times.

For example, the American company inMusic (BTW, one of the worst audio companies in terms of build quality and reliability) sued Roland, Roland sued Behringer, Behringer sued Dave Smith, San Diego Tech sued Korg and Yamaha, Tom Oberheim sued Buchla... that's how it works.
And the innocent GS members? They got sued for what?

Spare me the facepalms and I'll hit the ignore button.
Life is too short for bad karma, and music usually is about fighting injustice....
Old 5 days ago
  #327
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by retractablezing View Post
Actually that's not accurate.
You're right. They granted licenses to manufacturers, but maintained very strict standards and control.

What I said earlier was in the context of using the cassette as part of a tape-based delay. To do that, the shell would have to have a second pressure pad to correspond with the separate, offset repro head of the device. It seems unlikely to me that Philips would ever grant a license for that kind of deviation from their standard.
Old 5 days ago
  #328
Lives for gear
 
12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastropiero View Post
And BTW, it's very common that companies sue other companies or individuals. It's legit to do it and if they're wrong, the judges will say. What's wrong with that? You are also ignoring that Behringer have been sued many times.
It's a fact that Behringer got sued multiple times for blatantly and continually ripping sh*t off. If any other company does that, then they ought to get sued as well. But it's foolish and revisionistic to not acknowledge that a part of Behringer's legacy is ripping off other's sh*t with impugnity...anyone who'd dispute that is delusional or ignorant. It's contemptible...

as well, equally contemptible:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
And the innocent GS members? They got sued for what?

Spare me the facepalms and I'll hit the ignore button.
Life is too short for bad karma, and music usually is about fighting injustice....
Friggin' lame ain't it, to go after average Joe's because they got butthurt by criticism and they want to cover their tracks and gaslight people.
Old 4 days ago
  #329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
You're right. They granted licenses to manufacturers, but maintained very strict standards and control.

What I said earlier was in the context of using the cassette as part of a tape-based delay. To do that, the shell would have to have a second pressure pad to correspond with the separate, offset repro head of the device. It seems unlikely to me that Philips would ever grant a license for that kind of deviation from their standard.
I have a 1978 Teac C3 rack mount cassette machine that has separate record & playback heads. Still works great. Has approx. 50 mSec delay between record / playback when monitoring off tape. I don't know how it holds tension on the payback head, but I suspect it is from the takeup reel motor
Old 4 days ago
  #330
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philbo King View Post
Has approx. 50 mSec delay between record / playback when monitoring off tape.
Check my arithmetic, but I think 1/20 of a second at 1 7/8 ips works out to a distance between head gaps of about .094". Meaning the two heads are probably actually contained in one structure.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
skimask / Low End Theory
14

Forum Jump
Forum Jump