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Fibre Glass Installed in Bedroom : Breathing Problem
Old 19th August 2010 | Show parent
  #31
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Glenn Kuras's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Just a FYI guys before everyone goes off the deep end. If fiberglass caused health problems there would be a public out cry about it. Most offices have ceiling tiles that are made from (DRUM ROLL PLEASE heh) fiberglass so if it was a health risk we would have people coughing all day long at work.
Old 19th August 2010 | Show parent
  #32
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1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Unless you live outdoors, you probably have fiberglass insulation all over your house, nevermind the fact that every store and office building has is everywhere too. There are people that install the stuff for a living. I've installed tons of it to insulate industrial ductwork when I used to do HVAC. It's irritating, itchy, and makes you cough when you get a face full of it, but thats it. It is not a health hazard unless you purposely inhale enough to suffocate yourself. If it were dangerous, we would all be dead by now. This is precisely why fiberglass is the standard for building insulation, and asbestos is not. Fiberglass and asbestos are vastly different things.

Common sense, people.
Old 19th August 2010 | Show parent
  #33
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weasel9992 View Post
...but the studies show that you'd have to be exposed to many, many times the amount any human being could ever be exposed to.
For the most part that seems to be true but not necessarily.

For example:

Case report: analytical electron microscopy of lun... [Environ Health Perspect. 2010] - PubMed result
This article describes one person who developed nodules in their lungs from fiberglass exposure over 7 years. They suggest it might have been coating compounds on the fiberglass, rather than the fibers themselves, that provoked it.

Pulmonary fibrosis in a patient with exposure to g... [Am J Ind Med. 2006] - PubMed result
Similarly these authors found, that despite "the absence of firm evidence that exposure to these fibers is associated with [lung disease]", they found one person with lung disease due to fiberglass exposure.

Mortality and cancer incidence in Ontario glass fi... [Occup Med (Lond). 2005] - PubMed result
And this study found a significant increase in lung cancer for workers in manufacturing plants for fiberglass. Of course, manufacturing is different from using the finished product, but again it goes to show this stuff is not always certain.

So I wouldn't say it's harmless, but nor would I say using it in a studio is likely to kill you. As for the odds of moderate lung problems from it, who knows. It's easy to ignore 1 in 1000,000 chance (or 1/1000 or 1/100) until you are that 1.

So if something's bothering you, and you are fairly certain you are not imagining it (ie. you improve when you remove it and get worse when you put it back), I still think it makes sense to just take it out. There are other materials out there that absorb just as well.
Old 20th August 2010 | Show parent
  #34
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Glenn Kuras's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
see the following
Exposing the Myths of Fiberglass
Old 20th August 2010 | Show parent
  #35
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Weasel9992's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobius.media View Post
For the most part that seems to be true but not necessarily.
I hear you...honestly I do. There are exceptions to every rule, but we have to live by the *rule* not the *exception*. There are some people who are much more sensetive than others to things like fiberglass, but those people also tend to be sensetive to LOTS of things. The fact is, for the vast majority fiberglass and mineral wool are not going to cause any problems unless they're exposed to MASSIVE amounts of the stuff. The point Glenn makes is a good one: if it were a problem we'd all be in trouble by now. The fact that we're not is pretty telling.
Old 20th August 2010 | Show parent
  #36
RLD
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🎧 10 years
Does anybody have any info or experience about sensitivity to the chemical odor that the panels have?
I'm not talking about the fiberglass itself, cause I don't think the fibers can get out to the room after being wrapped in fabric, but after hanging 5 traps (10 panels) I seem to be noticing a slight allergic reaction.
I have removed them and put them outside for a few days to hopefully lessen the effect of whatever it is.
Anybody have any info or thoughts?
Old 20th August 2010 | Show parent
  #37
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Heartfelt's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
I am a big allergy person.

Something like that could be as simple as the dust in the fabric or odors in the fabric from any step of manufacturing or distribution along the way.

As easy it is, the thing to do in such a situation is take a trip to the fabric store, get some new fabric, wash it and install it in place of the old.

With all my allergies, I have some GIK panels and have never smelled or sensed anything.
Old 20th August 2010 | Show parent
  #38
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLD View Post
Does anybody have any info or experience about sensitivity to the chemical odor that the panels have?
I'm not talking about the fiberglass itself, cause I don't think the fibers can get out to the room after being wrapped in fabric, but after hanging 5 traps (10 panels) I seem to be noticing a slight allergic reaction.
I have removed them and put them outside for a few days to hopefully lessen the effect of whatever it is.
Anybody have any info or thoughts?
That's what I experienced. It wasn't the fibers that were the most likely issue for me. I had those very well contained. But the panels were still putting off a slight odor and I was getting red eyes and dry throat around them.

This happened with both OFI-48 (fiberglass) and RHT40 (rockwool). Some people have said the chemical smell/emissions can stop if you leave the insulation out in the sun for a few days. But at one point, I had panels sitting around in storage for months and they still bothered me once I took them back out.

By contrast, I had no similar reaction with UltraTouch cotton, but that stuff is really floppy and makes a lot of unpleasant dust, so it's not perfect either.

Like I said in the other thread I'm going to try Knauf ECOSE for my next build. It is fiberglass made without the typical harsh chemical binders/additives. At least that's what their advertising says. Maybe, maybe not... Worth a try IMO.
Old 20th August 2010 | Show parent
  #39
RLD
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobius.media View Post
That's what I experienced. It wasn't the fibers that were the most likely issue for me. I had those very well contained. But the panels were still putting off a slight odor and I was getting red eyes and dry throat around them.

This happened with both OFI-48 (fiberglass) and RHT40 (rockwool). Some people have said the chemical smell/emissions can stop if you leave the insulation out in the sun for a few days. But at one point, I had panels sitting around in storage for months and they still bothered me once I took them back out.

By contrast, I had no similar reaction with UltraTouch cotton, but that stuff is really floppy and makes a lot of unpleasant dust, so it's not perfect either.

Like I said in the other thread I'm going to try Knauf ECOSE for my next build. It is fiberglass made without the typical harsh chemical binders/additives. At least that's what their advertising says. Maybe, maybe not... Worth a try IMO.
Ha ha...I made my panels out of Knauf.
I washed the fabric before construction as well.
I'm not allergy sensitive to much anything, but I definitely feel a dry throat and stuffing nose/head after being in the room with the panels for a few hours.
Old 20th August 2010 | Show parent
  #40
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLD View Post
Ha ha...I made my panels out of Knauf.
I washed the fabric before construction as well.
I'm not allergy sensitive to much anything, but I definitely feel a dry throat and stuffing nose/head after being in the room with the panels for a few hours.
ha ha. Oh well. Might you be able to check for certain if it was the special new "ECOSE" type you used or if it was just the regular Knauf? I'd be very interested to know.

And me neither regarding other allergies.
Old 20th August 2010 | Show parent
  #41
RLD
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🎧 10 years
I just called SPI where I bought the Knauf panels and was told it definitely was the Ecose. Its brown as opposed to yellow.
It does not have an offensive odor, but it does have an odor.
Luckily I can take my panel down quickly so I'll just air them out some more if I still feel the effects.
Old 20th August 2010 | Show parent
  #42
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Personally, I always wear protection when working with fiberglass. There are definite dangers associated with prolonged exposure to loose fibers.

Most likely the damage to your lungs will increase with prolonged exposure.

Here's research link from a couple of years ago:

The Comparative Safety of Rockwool, Fiberglass, and Organic Fibers (a review)
Old 20th August 2010 | Show parent
  #43
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLD View Post
I just called SPI where I bought the Knauf panels and was told it definitely was the Ecose. Its brown as opposed to yellow.
It does not have an offensive odor, but it does have an odor.
Luckily I can take my panel down quickly so I'll just air them out some more if I still feel the effects.
Wow. Thanks. Since you're describing pretty much the exact same symptoms I've had with OFI48 and RHT40, I think I'll probably take your word for it and steer clear myself then. I suppose I will stick with UltraTouch cotton in the future. I will just need to find a better way to seal it to avoid the dust issues it creates.

When I did my OFI48 panels I used a polyester batting from a fabric store around them glued with Super 77 which did really well with containing the fibers. I think I will try that again next time, with maybe a plastic bag/layer over top if that is not sufficient. And then of course, the finishing fabric/frame last.
Old 21st August 2010 | Show parent
  #44
RLD
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🎧 10 years
Again, I don't believe it's the fiberglass I'm having a problem with.
The panels are compressed and glued, they don't shed and I have them wrapped in a fabric with a much tighter weave than burlap or whatever.
I put them back up after 3 days of airing out in the sun.
After installing them I left the room.
When I came back, I immediately noticed the odor again
Unfortunately within an hour or so, I started getting the dry throat and stuffy feeling.
DAMNIT!
Took them back down and back outside.
Gonna have to think about this...
Old 22nd August 2010 | Show parent
  #45
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Mark D.'s Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
How about a different angle. When they are taken out of the room, after
letting things 'settle' or maybe cleaning up a bit, when you walked in the
fiberglass panel free room did you notice improvement or have the issue?

Further. Maybe try the advice above to wrap them in plastic. Loose, not
sealed. Finally, when you installed those did you also install the acoustic
foam in there? I'm still wondering if you're reacting to that foam, as well.
Old 23rd August 2010 | Show parent
  #46
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uncle duncan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
A local studio uses cotton batting - recycled bluejeans - for acoustic treatment. I don't know where they get it, but it might be worth looking into.
Old 23rd August 2010 | Show parent
  #47
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLD View Post
Again, I don't believe it's the fiberglass I'm having a problem with.
The panels are compressed and glued, they don't shed and I have them wrapped in a fabric with a much tighter weave than burlap or whatever.
I put them back up after 3 days of airing out in the sun.
After installing them I left the room.
When I came back, I immediately noticed the odor again
Unfortunately within an hour or so, I started getting the dry throat and stuffy feeling.
DAMNIT!
Took them back down and back outside.
Gonna have to think about this...
Same was happening to me. Like I described in the other thread, at the time, I assumed it was loose fibers, so I tried wrapping in plastic bags. I used clear garbage bags like the ones you use for leaves in the fall. They were very thin and seemed to have negligible effect on low freq absorption. I taped them shut well enough and wiped them down no fibers should have been getting out at that point. But it did not change the red eyes, dry throat, or stuffy feeling I was getting.

I was going to re-wrap them with better plastic more perfectly under the fabric/frame if this approach worked, but since it didn't (for me), I just abandoned the fiberglass/minwool and went with ultratouch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle duncan View Post
A local studio uses cotton batting - recycled bluejeans - for acoustic treatment. I don't know where they get it, but it might be worth looking into.
Yeah, that's Ultratouch cotton. The loose fibers are just as bad or worse than the fiberglass/minwool, so the same considerations apply for keeping those contained. It is also a floppier material so does better framed. But besides that it seems to be very neutral. I've had a set of panels here made from Ultratouch for many months now, and they are not creating the same air quality issues I had with minwool/fiberglass.

Like I said, I was going to try the Knauf ECOSE to compare. But based on RLD's issues with it, I will not bother.

I think Ultratouch, with a thin layer of polyester batting super 77 glued to the cotton to contain fibers (and possibly another thin plastic layer around that), should be the most inert design for those of us who need it.
Old 23rd August 2010 | Show parent
  #48
RLD
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🎧 10 years
Thanks Mobius,
Since airing them out doesn't seem to work, before I give up, I'm going to experiment with plastic wraps.
Before I try some painters plastic, I'm going to take one trap apart and wrap the panels in food grade plastic wrap, like saran wrap.
I just happen to have a huge Costco size roll of the stuff, so I'll try one a see if any odor can escape. heh
Old 23rd August 2010 | Show parent
  #49
RLD
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🎧 10 years
I've found a supplier of the cotton insulation in my area, so I can always go with that if all else fails.
This looks interesting as a possible replacement for the rigid fiberglass panels.
ecohaus | homasote
Any thoughts?
Old 23rd August 2010 | Show parent
  #50
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLD View Post
I've found a supplier of the cotton insulation in my area, so I can always go with that if all else fails.
This looks interesting as a possible replacement for the rigid fiberglass panels.
ecohaus | homasote
Any thoughts?
If you are looking for pre-cut to the normal dimensions type cotton panels, several places sell them like:

UltraQuiet Acoustic Cotton Panels

But if you are planning on framing them, a couple batts of UltraTouch R21 24" wide 5.5" thick are infinitely cheaper and will do about the same thing (compresses well down to 4" as needed). The UltraTouch is actually cheaper than standard fiberglass/rockwool.

The Homasote product you linked has no NRC coefficient data on that page so it's hard to say if it absorbs at all or what frequencies. I checked their main website and the panels I see on there have NRC 0.20 which isn't very good.
Old 26th August 2010 | Show parent
  #51
RLD
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🎧 10 years
Well, I de-constructed all my traps I had carefully put together.
Damn, I used a lot of staples!
After removing the fabric I vacuumed all the frames, got some new fabric, washed, dried, folded and prepared for new build.
I noticed a fine dust from the panels in the old fabric, fine enough to sift through the fabric I suppose.
So at this point I'm not sure if I have been having a reaction to fiberglass dust or a chemical reaction to binders.
The Knauf Ecose lit says it doesn't use formaldehyde, so who knows?
I proceeded to wrap my Knauf panels in plastic wrap. I wrapped along the 24 " width, leaving extra on the end and folding it under the next wrap.
Continuing on an angle, I wrapped the panel in one continuous, overlapping piece, finishing the other end like the first.
I'm certain no fibers or dust can escape and there is no panel odor present. There is a plastic smell from the wrap.
Hopefully that will dissipate.
Re-hung the traps and will re-enter the coal mine.
Time will tell.
Attached Thumbnails
Fibre Glass Installed in Bedroom : Breathing Problem-p1010134.jpg  
Old 12th November 2010 | Show parent
  #52
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Bobine's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
So, what has time told? Any improvement?

I'm about to do something similar with my fiberglass panels. I got watery eyes and a tight throat after a few hours in the room. I took them out and let them sit in a ventialated space for a month. It's time to see if that helped. I actually suspected the burlap more than the fiberglass...

I never had this problem with my UltraTouch panels, despite the dust, but they were covered in polyester fabric on a frame.
Old 14th November 2010 | Show parent
  #53
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2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
As far as I know, rigid fiberglass is rigid because it's held together with a resin, and that will gradually dry out, so you may get residual fumes from the resin and the fiberglass if it's "fresh". That's a gas, formaldehyde, so cloth won't keep it in. I think that's a likely explanation for watery eyes etc assuming that the actual fiberglass is well wrapped before staging in rooms indoors, and maybe if the room isn't well ventilated. Doing a search on "formaldehyde from fiberglass" will give you the idea. There is such a thing as "formaldehyde-free fiberglass" if you're worried.
Old 14th November 2010 | Show parent
  #54
RLD
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobine View Post
So, what has time told? Any improvement?

I'm about to do something similar with my fiberglass panels. I got watery eyes and a tight throat after a few hours in the room. I took them out and let them sit in a ventialated space for a month. It's time to see if that helped. I actually suspected the burlap more than the fiberglass...

I never had this problem with my UltraTouch panels, despite the dust, but they were covered in polyester fabric on a frame.
Yeah, the plastic wrap has solved the problem.
Note that I used Knauf Ecose fiberglass panels which doesn't use formaldehyde in its binder.
I did lots of reading up on this topic during all this.
Despite what lots of people think, it seems that it's quite acceptable to wrap panels in plastic especially if they are overhead as in a cloud type setup.
Remember the fiberglass fibers vibrate to dissipated the sound energy as heat.
Plastic has no effect on low frequency absorption and thinner than 1 mil (not mm) it is acoustically transparent.
I didn't do testing, but I noticed no difference between unwrapped and wrapped in my room.
Old 5th February 2015
  #55
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by b-projekt View Post
Hello GS,

After a long time im posting , I've finally built my room studio it sounds amazing as well..

My room is pretty small (10x12 feet) and is treated with fibre glass.

i have a total of 15 bass traps + a ceiling cloud in this room. Its a bit stuffy.

The only problem is , this is my BEDROOM , and ive been sleeping in this for the past 4 months. I dont know if this safe enough to sleep in this room , or will it cause any health probs..
i face mild breathing prob when i get up from sleep..

your advice will be of great help for me to decide, wether i should sleep in this room or move my studio.

thx,

b
Fiber glass and mineral wool (rock and slag wool) insulation products are the most thoroughly researched insulation materials on the market. Fiber glass and mineral wool products are safe to manufacture, install, and use when recommended work practices are followed. To find out the facts on these products, consult the wide variety of data on health and safety, proper installation, safe work practices, energy savings, and much more at Insulate Today. Save Tomorrow. : NAIMA North American Insulation Manufacturers Association
Old 5th February 2015 | Show parent
  #56
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by naima View Post
Fiber glass and mineral wool (rock and slag wool) insulation products are the most thoroughly researched insulation materials on the market. Fiber glass and mineral wool products are safe to manufacture, install, and use when recommended work practices are followed. To find out the facts on these products, consult the wide variety of data on health and safety, proper installation, safe work practices, energy savings, and much more at Insulate Today. Save Tomorrow. : NAIMA North American Insulation Manufacturers Association
Didn't they say that about asbestos at one time?

Or for that matter cigarettes and thalidomide as well?
Old 6th February 2015 | Show parent
  #57
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lame pseudonym's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
.
USE THERMAFIBER, DAMMIT

Thermafiber is like a tannish cotton candy material that comes in batts (panels). It doesn't outgas much and if it sheds at all the pieces come out in little crystals like sugar, and drop to the floor.

And it works really well for acoustics.

http://www.thermafiber.com/wp-conten...data-sheet.pdf

http://www.thermafiber.com/wp-conten...ta%20Sheet.pdf

I like the regular safing -- the face isn't pressed shut like the acoustic batts -- but I've never tried the acoustic batts so what do I know.

All I know is I've had my living space lined in nude Thermafiber since about 1980 or so, with no irritation of any kind. I wouldn't hang it over my bed but nobody would do something like that.

Last edited by lame pseudonym; 6th February 2015 at 07:26 PM..
Old 6th February 2015
  #58
Jb2
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Your traps look much better than the ones I've built. I've fortunately had not any issues. It could be hypersensitivity whether fibers or some chemical vapors given the temporal relationship. But it's your health and I think if your having respiratory issues you should see a doc and get checked out be sure not some other underlying issue. Why assume if your having breathing problems?
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