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Fact or myth? Playing mp3's degrade monitors?
Old 17th May 2010
  #91
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by T'Mershi Duween View Post
The fact is, mp3's ruin music, not gear. heh

Now if you listen to mp3's as your main audio "source"...
PMSL..Lame encoded 320kbps is very transparent. I used to be an mp3 snob, still am. Still prefer CD and Flac. But not because I can hear a difference. In ABX I can't. In fact, to date I have only witnessed one person pick it out in ABX. They had damaged hearing.
Old 17th May 2010
  #92
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Ronnie View Post
PMSL..Lame encoded 320kbps is very transparent. I used to be an mp3 snob, still am. Still prefer CD and Flac. But not because I can hear a difference. In ABX I can't. In fact, to date I have only witnessed one person pick it out in ABX. They had damaged hearing.
I have damaged hearing, living with it and working to overcome it can, in the long term, make your ears even better.

In my Army service I used to fire large calibre without ear defence and not really care. Upon taking up music again I figured there was no chance of working in production with shot ears. Now I can sit in my room and hear conversations in the kitchen through a pair of solid core doors (not air tight in between though) perfectly well. I still reckon if people with normal hearing put as much effort into training their ears as people with damaged hearing, they'd hear a lot more than they realise.
Old 17th May 2010
  #93
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by therealbigd View Post
I have damaged hearing, living with it and working to overcome it can, in the long term, make your ears even better.

In my Army service I used to fire large calibre without ear defence and not really care. Upon taking up music again I figured there was no chance of working in production with shot ears. Now I can sit in my room and hear conversations in the kitchen through a pair of solid core doors (not air tight in between though) perfectly well. I still reckon if people with normal hearing put as much effort into training their ears as people with damaged hearing, they'd hear a lot more than they realise.
I partly agree with that statement. But not in reference to mp3. It isn't all about being a better listener. It's whether you fall into the boundaries of the auditory model that the codec is based upon.
Old 17th May 2010
  #94
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by api2500 View Post
OK. Look up Pip Williams. He is currently teaching at my university and see who he's worked with. Thats the kind of calibre where I am getting information from.

Ok, everyone hold it. What's this guy's actual point as relating to the guy with the red guitar avatar? Nothin'. The red guitar guy finds listening to rubbish quality psycho-acoustically irritating. This guy I'm quoting goes to school, and he thinks it's super-great.

Listen: not only are these two points not in conflict, they are utterly unrelated. The conflict here is only guy-i'm-quoting shooting out words'o angst. Api2500: chill man, your school sounds wonderful, but redguitar avatar's points were subjective, and have nothin at all to do with Thames valley university.
Old 17th May 2010
  #95
Gear Maniac
 

Thames Valley University DUDES, THa THAMES!!!!!!!!!1



Todays lesson: how producing status quo showed me why it's a worthy occupation to slam anyone on the internet about whatever, mp3 and pain nervs or somthing.

Last edited by TwardyLikeTank; 17th May 2010 at 02:49 PM.. Reason: to make a tiny bit of sense.
Old 17th May 2010
  #96
Lives for gear
 

I just still love that quote

"I have lectures with Pip Williams"

has somehow transpired, in his mind, to

"I have adopted the complete knowledge and persona of Pip Williams by going to university. Who needs years of experience when you could sit in a lecture theatre with a famous person??"
Old 17th May 2010
  #97
Lives for gear
 
MrCrowbar's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwardyLikeTank View Post
Ok, everyone hold it. What's this guy's actual point as relating to the guy with the red guitar avatar?
It's a bass, you !*§&#!

JK

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwardyLikeTank View Post
Nothin'. The red guitar guy finds listening to rubbish quality psycho-acoustically irritating. This guy I'm quoting goes to school, and he thinks it's super-great.

Listen: not only are these two points not in conflict, they are utterly unrelated. The conflict here is only guy-i'm-quoting shooting out words'o angst. Api2500: chill man, your school sounds wonderful, but redguitar avatar's points were subjective, and have nothin at all to do with Thames valley university.
Thanks, bro. I really didn't mean to offend anybody's school, just stating what I and some of my peers have experienced. We actually did some "scientific" testing a few years back. I burned Daft Punk's "Discovery" a few times, half of the discs were exact copies (WAV) and the other ones ran through an MP3 converter (iTunes, 128 kbps) before burning. That music is annoying on its own and we asked the people to write down the track number where they had to stop playing it or when it became irritating. Swapped out the CDs after 2 weeks and there was a significantly higher annoyance rate with the MP3 version. We sorta published our "research", maybe I can dig it up again.
Old 17th May 2010
  #98
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by therealbigd View Post
I just still love that quote

"I have lectures with Pip Williams"

has somehow transpired, in his mind, to

"I have adopted the complete knowledge and persona of Pip Williams by going to university. Who needs years of experience when you could sit in a lecture theatre with a famous person??"
The thing is Pip does practical workshops in studios not "lectures"
Old 17th May 2010
  #99
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Ronnie View Post
The thing is Pip does practical workshops in studios not "lectures"
even better. pip showed some people some mix techniques and mic'ing techniques and suddenly the guy has adopted Pip's persona, and nobody can possibly argue with him because a famous guy came to his university.

I went to a lecture with PrismSound on the mic to monitor tour last year. But I wouldn't come on here telling everyone that I had a better knowledge of A/D/A conversion than anyone else, and everybody can 4cough because I the superior had a lecture with the calibre of Prism Sound.

why do we bother spending years working in studios? why have so many people spent years as tape ops to get their experience? it's clearly pointless. go to Thames Valley University and have a few workshop lessons with some famous people, and all engineers worldwide must bow down to thee, for they spent a few hours with said famous person and in that time adopted their entire lifelong music experience.
Old 17th May 2010
  #100
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by therealbigd View Post
even better. pip showed some people some mix techniques and mic'ing techniques and suddenly the guy has adopted Pip's persona, and nobody can possibly argue with him because a famous guy came to his university.

I went to a lecture with PrismSound on the mic to monitor tour last year. But I wouldn't come on here telling everyone that I had a better knowledge of A/D/A conversion than anyone else, and everybody can 4cough because I the superior had a lecture with the calibre of Prism Sound.

why do we bother spending years working in studios? why have so many people spent years as tape ops to get their experience? it's clearly pointless. go to Thames Valley University and have a few workshop lessons with some famous people, and all engineers worldwide must bow down to thee, for they spent a few hours with said famous person and in that time adopted their entire lifelong music experience.
Maybe your older and he is barely an adult? Why you making such a big thing out of this? You realise by doing so you come across as much of a prick as he does.
Old 17th May 2010
  #101
Lives for gear
 
DistortingJack's Avatar
 

To be honest, MP3 can damage your speakers.
Only a WAV is sure never to damage any speaker whatsoever.
I've actually found a sound that makes your speakers sound better, though.
I'll post a link so everyone can hear it.
The effect is nulled if you convert it into an mp3, even if you dither it to 16 bit.
It MUST be used at night (after 3 am the vibe is not as good so try between 11 pm and 2 am for best results) and the speakers must face north.
You must pair them, obviously, with the best converters possible.
There you go, I'm sure you'll be grateful after you try this file:

http://files.me.com/distortingjack/qc5iwk.wav

REMEMBER:
IT DOESN'T WORK ON MP3. YOU WILL DAMAGE YOUR SPEAKERS IRREMEDIABLY IF YOU DO. ONLY THE 24 BIT VERSION WILL DO.
PEACE AND GLORY FOR THE COUNTRY.
Old 17th May 2010
  #102
Gear Nut
 
Andl's Avatar
I wonder what Pip Williams would think about his name being brought into this ridiculous argument.

Maybe I didn't read it all properly, but it looked like this...


Listening to mp3s gives me a headache.

You are wrong.


Next time my Grandfather complains of severe aches in his legs after walking about I will be sure to correct him. Impossible! My legs are fine.
Old 17th May 2010
  #103
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Ronnie View Post
Maybe your older and he is barely an adult? Why you making such a big thing out of this? You realise by doing so you come across as much of a prick as he does.
I just don't think it's on that you come on a forum which exists solely for the purpose of DISCUSSING THINGS, telling everyone that they know fck all because you can name-drop somebody half famous - who - after all - might not want to be associated with the argument.

I just think some people need a boot in the arse - and reminding that students with half a brain about music recording who go on websites and seek to learn from other people are the ones who do well. The ones who go on them telling everyone to shut up because they get lectures off famous people are the ones who nobody wants to help. And, like it or not, as a student, to work in recording, you need help.
Old 17th May 2010
  #104
Quote:
Originally Posted by api2500 View Post
Are you kidding? Are you actually having a bubble?
Your joking right?

Psychoacoustics, what you're referring to, is the process your brain goes through when its "compensating for the missing stuff".
Hi-fi systems and Car sound systems all do this all the time, and in fact its easier on the ear as Low Frequency signals have a lot of wave energy which would hurt your ears (Clubs, Gigs etc). Instead these speaker systems have a higher peak lift above the physical speaker limits and the ear interprets that as 'a clear deep bass'.

Almost all portable radios cannot reproduce anything under 80hz and does that hurt your brain? No.

Psychoacoustics is the way the brain responds to sound in all ways, things like the loudness button doesn't introduce more gain, but all it does it increase High Frequency and Low Frequency content in the infamous 'smiley face' curve. Listening to that probably would cause headaches but MP3s are not damaging to the ear/cause cancer/kill children blah blah blah.

I fathom the only reason you could get headaches from MP3s is by turning the volume up on your iPod too loud. Not a single iPod user has complained that the format they are using causes their ears to bleed.

WAVs and AIFFs are lossless and preferable when mixing because they are truer to the orignal but most importantly, can be the derivative to all other formats e.g. MP3, OGG, MP4 and MOV Audio etc.

There is no way that your brain compensating for anything could ever hurt it i.e. Optical Illusions, Eyes changing to lighting conditions, mental maths. etc
Since I try to stay on the skeptical side of things, myself, I'm trepidatious about giving out with a contrary position to someone who is in skepticism mode...

But...

I won't try to pin down where the fatigue occurs -- I suspect there may be local fatigue both in the ear apparatus -- which, after all, is dependent on a delicate mechanism which uses tiny muscles in the operation of the ear (mostly for protection as I understand it), as well as possibly fatigue from increased lower level brain processing efforts...

At any rate, I think a lot of folks find listening to low quality Mp3s and other lossy codecs -- or worse, some of the early lossy compression codecs like ATRACS, Sony's old MiniDisk codec -- to be wearing and, ultimately unpleasant.

Whether it comes from the ear 'straining to hear' missing information as has often been informally suggested or something else, I don't know. But it's certainly been my experience that quality below the quality of a well-encoded 128 MP3 (which is, after all, usually noticeably degraded, even if not necessarily entirely unpleasant to listen to) is, to me, fatiguing, wearing, annoying, or whatever one wants to call it. And I would bet that, if we could cook up a good objective test of that, the results would bear out that impression, which I've built over a dozen years of playing with Mp3s and, before that, the ATRACS compression of the MiniDisk recorder I bought at the beginning of the 90s. Mind you, get that quality level up a little (~192 kbsp on up works pretty well for me), and I can listen all day long. And do.
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