The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Mushy reverb Reverb & Delay Plugins
Old 6th May 2010
  #1
Gear interested
 

Thread Starter
Mushy reverb

not sure where to post this. i am recording on audition 3 vocals and the reverbs furnished with the software make the vocal sound mushy. would like to find 3rd party effects that would solve the problem and give a clear, sharp vocal. appreciate any help in finding effects on the net.
thanks

Last edited by Blast9; 8th May 2010 at 10:00 AM.. Reason: 2 Threads merged - same question
Old 6th May 2010
  #2
Gear nut
 

Sounds exactly like my earlier experiences with vocals!

One thing someone told me early on that really helped me is to try using delay instead of reverb. Reverb, by nature, will make things sound mushier. Try using a time-synched delay (not mixed really loud) to thicken up the vocals without turning it into soup!

If you completely have your heart set on reverb, though, try playing with the pre-delay so that you get the initial attack of the vocals before the reverb comes in.

I googled and found a link to reviews of free reverbs, hope it helps: 15 Totally Free Reverb Plug-ins That Rock | Audiotuts+

I'll shut up now and let someone wiser take over!

All the best!
Old 6th May 2010
  #3
Also, try using reverbs under a send/aux scheme rather than inserting directly on the vocal track.

One nice and free reverb plug not mentioned on the above list is bootsy's epicverb. It comes with some presets that maybe helpful. BTW = all bootsy's plugs are worth a shot.
Old 6th May 2010
  #4
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikelang View Post
If you completely have your heart set on reverb, though, try playing with the pre-delay so that you get the initial attack of the vocals before the reverb comes in.
I've found that mushy reverb comes from using big spaces-type reverbs like cathedral, large hall, etc. Generally, I like using plate reverbs and a good amount of pre-delay on vocals— still lush, but clear.
Old 7th May 2010
  #5
Lives for gear
 
dickiefunk's Avatar
 

Old 7th May 2010
  #6
Gear interested
 
Bigpuppy's Avatar
 

If you're talking about getting something free the above mentioned options are pretty good.

But if you're willing to pay, Waves has a couple of AWESOME options. I'm addicted to the Eddie Cramer Vocal plugin. The reverb, compression and delays are setup in a very nifty interface with individual sliders and the sound blew my mind. Very easy to use and set in the mix the way I needed it to. Reminded me of the days when I was setting behind a mixing desk. The mix just seemed to come together, nice and wet but not muddy.

I know I might be sounding like in a sales person for Waves, but the reality is that it's a great product. I think you can download a trial version if you would like to check it out.

They also have a CLA (Chris Lord-Alge) Vocal plugin that is great. I found it to be a little less "wet" sounding. And the same for the Tony Maserati plugin, but still both are very good options.

Lexicon has released the PCM reverb plugin and that plugin blew my mind also. I love it, but it is a little pricey at $1,400. That is what GC Pro priced it at for me. I think it lists for $2k? or something like that.

Anyway, good luck in your search.
Old 7th May 2010
  #7
Lives for gear
 
dickiefunk's Avatar
 

My favorite reverb I've tried on vocals is Redline Reverb.

I have tried the demos of Aether Reverb 1.5, AAR Reverb, Toraverb, Sanford Reverb, Reverberate (which I also love), Ambience, Epicverb 1.5 and TAL Reverb 2.

Redline Reverb blew me away and I had to buy it! Sounds bloomin brilliant on everything I've tried!!

Redline Reverb and Reverberate are now my go to reverbs!!
Old 7th May 2010
  #8
Gear interested
 

Thread Starter
mushy reverb

i inquired about 3rd party reverb effects. the effects i have with my software (audition 3) sound mushy. some one sent a reply that they had the same problem and used delay. i would like more information on using the delay effect. thanks
jimbo

Last edited by Blast9; 8th May 2010 at 09:58 AM.. Reason: "mushy" instead of "musky"
Old 7th May 2010
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
Great Search Function

Just type in "Using Delay" and you will have this topic many many times...
Old 8th May 2010
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Eric Pederson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo@npgcable View Post
i inquired about 3rd party reverb effects. the effects i have with my software (audition 3) sound mushy. some one sent a reply that they had the same problem and used delay. i would like more information on using the delay effect. thanks
jimbo
They were probably referring to increasing the "pre-delay" of the reverb effect.

This control typically delays the "first reflections" by whatever amount you set.

A teacher once told us that you could make Digiverb sound ok by doing this.

You could also try using a HPF to roll off the lower frequencies on your reverb track.
Old 8th May 2010
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Xander's Avatar
I often use delays instead of reverb. It really depends on the style of music though. Delays can be cleaner, less likely to cloud up a mix. But they don't sound like a room, so they don't work with more down to earth music or ballads as well as reverb does. Delays usually work great with more modern pop music. Those are all just general statements though...just try both and see what fits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Pederson View Post
A teacher once told us that you could make Digiverb sound ok by doing this.
Mike Brown? haha
Old 8th May 2010
  #12
Gear maniac
 

Wink my secret reverb setting

Ok, this is something I do to have a nice clear verb.. I add a a reverb to the aux send. (bus 1, 2 wutever)
i start with a plate.. fast response (no delay) and a decent tail (a second at most)
then I add another verb underneath of the plate!! (this is what makes it smooth" )
I use a hall preset. a decent delay to separate it from the vox being sent. the plate looses much of its metallic feel and it become a super hall but without the crazy tail's halls are known for (perfect for vocals.)
and to add a cherry on the top I add Auto tune to the chain. in key ofcourse.. the difference is not "in your face" but it adds a subtle harmonic effect that can yeild beautiful results. heh
Old 9th May 2010
  #13
Lives for gear
 
stafs's Avatar
 

May this will help: Put verb on send, but before verb put the compressor. Then feed comp's sidechain input from vocal track, so the compressor do 2-3 (or more, if You feel it sounds good) db's of gain reduction. Now, everytime the vocal starts, reverb is getting compreseed a bit, and vocals stay present, but when phrase ends, reverb kicks in.
Old 9th May 2010
  #14
Gear maniac
 

dude

Quote:
Originally Posted by stafs View Post
May this will help: Put verb on send, but before verb put the compressor. Then feed comp's sidechain input from vocal track, so the compressor do 2-3 (or more, if You feel it sounds good) db's of gain reduction. Now, everytime the vocal starts, reverb is getting compreseed a bit, and vocals stay present, but when phrase ends, reverb kicks in.
your a god.. lol, nice technique.. I like allot heh

use my technique with yours and we go a secret weapon here. lol
Old 9th May 2010
  #15
Lives for gear
 
Xander's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by stafs View Post
May this will help: Put verb on send, but before verb put the compressor. Then feed comp's sidechain input from vocal track, so the compressor do 2-3 (or more, if You feel it sounds good) db's of gain reduction. Now, everytime the vocal starts, reverb is getting compreseed a bit, and vocals stay present, but when phrase ends, reverb kicks in.
Is the bold part necessary? You are compressing the dry vocal. Sending the vocals to the sidechain does nothing because the send for the verb should already be post fader. Sending a separate signal to the sidechain is redundant if it's the same signal that is going into the input.
Old 9th May 2010
  #16
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldskool978 View Post
...then I add another verb underneath of the plate!! (this is what makes it smooth" )..
'Underneath'? As in front, after, parallel..?
Just curious too as plates are generally pretty smooth to begin with.
(Semantics being what they are heh
Old 9th May 2010
  #17
Gear maniac
 

Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xander View Post
Is the bold part necessary? You are compressing the dry vocal. Sending the vocals to the sidechain does nothing because the send for the verb should already be post fader. Sending a separate signal to the sidechain is redundant if it's the same signal that is going into the input.
The vocals attenuate the Verb untill the phrase is done. thus only leaving the tail and eliminating the "mush". it sounds good.. I would recommend reading up on side chain compression before making yourself look like a fool "xander" heh


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne View Post
'Underneath'? As in front, after, parallel..?
Just curious too as plates are generally pretty smooth to begin with.
(Semantics being what they are heh
first a plate.. then that plate goes into a halll. the plate shouldnt have a pre delay, but the hall should. its an amazing effect. and its barely noticible, but it is extremely noticible when its missing.
Old 9th May 2010
  #18
Lives for gear
 
Xander's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldskool978 View Post
The vocals attenuate the Verb untill the phrase is done. thus only leaving the tail and eliminating the "mush". it sounds good.. I would recommend reading up on side chain compression before making yourself look like a fool "xander" heh
"Xander" is my actual name.

Perhaps I misunderstood your post. I want to make sure I'm clear on this, because if I can learn something, then great.

I assume you are sending the dry vocal to an aux track through a post-fader send. Then on this aux track you insert a compressor, followed by a reverb. So the input of this compressor is seeing the dry vocal signal, then the compressed vocal will go to the reverb.

So again, the input to the compressor is the dry vocal. Sending that exact same signal to the compressor's sidechain does nothing, unless you apply some additional processing on the sidechain input.

All the sidechain does is give you an option to have a different signal, or a processed version of the input signal, to trigger compression instead of the signal at the compressor's input. If the exact same signal goes in the sidechain as is going into the input, you have done nothing.

If I am missing something, please teach me.
Old 9th May 2010
  #19
Gear interested
 

Unhappy

Two things to add here:
First, as you're likely compressing your vocals I find that you can create depth and the semblance of a dynamics by using only uncompressed vocals to feed the reverb send.
Secondly, you might get better results if you de-ess the reverb/delay sends or lowpass them. This gives the effect of sound getting lower as they reverberate off into the distance.

Bonus: if you're not happy with your traditional reverb sound...try reversing it and putting it leading up to the vocals for an erie effect.
Old 9th May 2010
  #20
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xander View Post
Is the bold part necessary? You are compressing the dry vocal. Sending the vocals to the sidechain does nothing because the send for the verb should already be post fader. Sending a separate signal to the sidechain is redundant if it's the same signal that is going into the input.
The way I see it you can juggle a few different balls here depending on your routing.
Post fader send to verb on bus -verb wet/dry is set and follows fader.
Put a compressor ahead of the verb that sees input from the vocal (that could be a sidechain or just in series ahead of the comp, you get verb ducking vocal.
..Strike that. If anything that should have been 'after the verb', but now Oldskool's said exactly how he meant it anyway..

But then you now also have the compressor doing double duty against your nominal wet/dry mix as you make vocal volume rides.
Pre-fader send- now your vocal rides don't mess with the 'comp-ducks-verb', but you have a different version of vocal rides' in and out of the wet dry mix.

.and ten other combos i suppose.

(on the other hand just as often I find it's in those 'pauses where I want to attenuate the verb or effects to remain not too obvious.
Old 10th May 2010
  #21
Gear maniac
 

ok ok

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xander View Post
"Xander" is my actual name.

Perhaps I misunderstood your post. I want to make sure I'm clear on this, because if I can learn something, then great.

I assume you are sending the dry vocal to an aux track through a post-fader send. Then on this aux track you insert a compressor, followed by a reverb. So the input of this compressor is seeing the dry vocal signal, then the compressed vocal will go to the reverb.

So again, the input to the compressor is the dry vocal. Sending that exact same signal to the compressor's sidechain does nothing, unless you apply some additional processing on the sidechain input.

All the sidechain does is give you an option to have a different signal, or a processed version of the input signal, to trigger compression instead of the signal at the compressor's input. If the exact same signal goes in the sidechain as is going into the input, you have done nothing.

If I am missing something, please teach me.
sorry for being a prick Xandor, i guess I understand where your coming from. I do my side chain compression differently so ill let you know how I get this to work for me. I take my vocals.. add a send, for the sake of this particular explanation, lets call it bus 7. crank that to 100. then I also add another aux send, bus 8.
I go to bus 7, and I change the input to "no input".
I then go to bus 8 and add my reverb('s) followed by a compressor that has a side chain input. I select bus 7 as my side chain and I bring up the threshold till it sounds just right.
now the verb goes down in volume while the vocals are being played through the mix, but the volume stays constant for the reverb tail (when vocals are no longer playing)

I use Logic. im sure this works with other DAW's though.

heres a quick logic lesson on side chain compression.
http://en.wikiaudio.org/Logic:_Side_...ssion_(ducking)
Old 10th May 2010
  #22
Lives for gear
 
Xander's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldskool978 View Post
sorry for being a prick Xandor, i guess I understand where your coming from. I do my side chain compression differently so ill let you know how I get this to work for me. I take my vocals.. add a send, for the sake of this particular explanation, lets call it bus 7. crank that to 100. then I also add another aux send, bus 8.
I go to bus 7, and I change the input to "no input".
I then go to bus 8 and add my reverb('s) followed by a compressor that has a side chain input. I select bus 7 as my side chain and I bring up the threshold till it sounds just right.
now the verb goes down in volume while the vocals are being played through the mix, but the volume stays constant for the reverb tail (when vocals are no longer playing)

I use Logic. im sure this works with other DAW's though.

heres a quick logic lesson on side chain compression.
http://en.wikiaudio.org/Logic:_Side_chain_compression_(ducking)
Makes sense that way, using multiple sends. That would work quite well too, since you can change the send level going to the reverb without affecting the amount of compression going on. Thanks for the explanation
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Yetti / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
18
Mike24 / High end
8
swankdoc / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
2
Big Ale / Low End Theory
4

Forum Jump