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Shure Beta 52 vs Audix D-6 (Kick Drum) Dynamic Microphones
Old 17th November 2009
  #1
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Shure Beta 52 vs Audix D-6 (Kick Drum)

What's better and why? The price is almost the same.

Speak your mind on this ladies and gentlemen

EDIT: Added SM7B kick drum samples in post #17
Old 17th November 2009
  #2
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AKG d112
Old 17th November 2009
  #3
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I use the Shure Beta 52 for the thud outside the front the head and an EV RE20 for the pointed part of the sound inside the vent hole of the front head. Great combination.

The 52 is also very good on its own for the soft, thick bass drum sound that is so good with certain Americana music. I use it outside the front head.

I cannot speak to the Audix, but would recommend the 52 without reservation.
Old 17th November 2009
  #4
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got a D112 myself, used a B52, never tried the Audix.

Really like the B52, it's one of those mics where you just put it near a kick and it sounds good. You put it in the right place and it's great.

Never really gotten anything out of a D112 by itself. Combined it with a Shure B91 with nice results tough.
Old 17th November 2009
  #5
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The D6 is definitely more "clicky," if that makes sense at all. Quite often preferred to both the 52 and the 112 for hard/metal, especially for double-pedal stuff, where more definition is required.
Old 17th November 2009
  #6
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use the D6 only if you want the clicky, metal kick sound. It's pretty much useless for anything else. I had it for a little while, ditched it and went back to the D112.
Old 17th November 2009
  #7
Gear Nut
 

I use a beta 52 and an 8" woofer wired out of phase for the bottom end, those two together can give you a full sound. Never used the D112 or the D6, but I hear good things about them both, you might want to look at the Heil PR40, I hear nothing but great things about them.
Old 17th November 2009
  #8
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ditch both of those and look at the Heil PR-40. If that doesn't work for you find an ATM-25, e602, or e902.
Old 17th November 2009
  #9
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Generally of the main 3 it comes down to the d6 and d112. I own the d112 and can make it usable for alt rock. I think I prefer the d6 though. I disagree w/saying it has to be a "metal" sound. Travis Barker uses the d6 live and I wouldn't say he's metal by any means.
Old 17th November 2009
  #10
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There must be at least a hundred posts of ppl bemoaning the Beta 52 as a terrible kick drum mic but it's because they don't know where to place it!! (I can think of one place!). Yeah they don't work up close to the beater, just inside the hole works best, all you livesound guys are rolling your eyes I know but there are alot of studio engineers who didn't get a real education!

BTW, I love the beta 52, captures the sound of drum, important if you record Rock music and need that organic sound. But if I only had 1 mic for kick the D6 is better, ie can do both up close or just in the hole.
Old 17th November 2009
  #11
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PR-40 works better in any placement and takes EQ better than any other mic mentioned so far in this thread. Yes it costs considerably more but considering it's versatility as a kick mic that will work in any style of music I'd say it's a much wiser investment. The other kick mics you are looking at are more of one trick ponys. They are excellent mics but they really only do their vibe well. I say this as one who has owned or used everything mentioned thus far. Between a D112 and B52 I'd probably take a B52 just because it's the tone I prefer for most of what I play. But both are great mics.

I owned a D6 for a while and yes it's a decent mic but it's very clicky and it really makes pretty much every kick sound the same way in my opinion. It's not a versatile mic when it comes to handling multiple styles. It's pretty much a modern rock kick sound suitable for hard rock and metal. I wouldn't call Travis Barker metal but his style is definitely harder rock than most other alt rock bands. My issue with the D6 is that it is so scooped and pre-EQ'd it really can't do anything outside of it's designed realm of operation. If you need a wide open sounding kick or some wooliness the D6 can't possibly do it.

When I did live sound I used to grab for an e602 or Beta 52 before any other mic for a reason. The Audix D6 was tried in this setting and failed me. Not because it was bad but because it was a blah and boring mic that either worked or didn't. The e602 and B52 while not always the most flattering always worked. I think of them much like SM57 or AT4050 there are always better mics but none always work regardless of source.

Whereas a mic like a PR-40 or even the B52 and D112 can be EQ'd and placed to give it some extra versatility. Perhaps some of that was just being more familiar with the B52 and D112, but the PR-40 hasn't been around (or used by me) nearly as much and I already know it's a better mic to work with.
Old 17th November 2009
  #12
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Lifted's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithMoonwannabe View Post
ditch both of those and look at the Heil PR-40. If that doesn't work for you find an ATM-25, e602, or e902.

e602, e902 and atm-25... HUH! That's three other ones to research. Thanks DUDE! (PR-40 is out of my price range)

Can you explain the difference between these 3, especially compared to D-6 and Beta 52? So far I'm getting a perception like this from all the reviews and your guys' opinions:

Beta 52 - Full Sound. Organic. Big Poof. Nice Attack, but not as defined like D112 or D-6.

Audix D-6 - Tight. Full. Really nice, well defined attack. (Especially looking on that frequency response)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hgen View Post
There must be at least a hundred posts of ppl bemoaning the Beta 52 as a terrible kick drum mic but it's because they don't know where to place it!! (I can think of one place!). Yeah they don't work up close to the beater, just inside the hole works best, all you livesound guys are rolling your eyes I know but there are alot of studio engineers who didn't get a real education!

BTW, I love the beta 52, captures the sound of drum, important if you record Rock music and need that organic sound. But if I only had 1 mic for kick the D6 is better, ie can do both up close or just in the hole.
THANKS for the info!

How far in the hole should I place Beta 52 to get it right? (What happens when there is no hole?)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yorke View Post
I use a beta 52 and an 8" woofer wired out of phase for the bottom end, those two together can give you a full sound. Never used the D112 or the D6, but I hear good things about them both, you might want to look at the Heil PR40, I hear nothing but great things about them.

NICE! Good to know.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeDrive View Post
use the D6 only if you want the clicky, metal kick sound. It's pretty much useless for anything else. I had it for a little while, ditched it and went back to the D112.
thumbsup

Quote:
Originally Posted by bass man View Post
AKG d112
thumbsup

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetmojo View Post
The D6 is definitely more "clicky," if that makes sense at all. Quite often preferred to both the 52 and the 112 for hard/metal, especially for double-pedal stuff, where more definition is required.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Addni View Post
got a D112 myself, used a B52, never tried the Audix.

Really like the B52, it's one of those mics where you just put it near a kick and it sounds good. You put it in the right place and it's great.

Never really gotten anything out of a D112 by itself. Combined it with a Shure B91 with nice results tough.



Quote:
Originally Posted by janglyrecords View Post
I use the Shure Beta 52 for the thud outside the front the head and an EV RE20 for the pointed part of the sound inside the vent hole of the front head. Great combination.

The 52 is also very good on its own for the soft, thick bass drum sound that is so good with certain Americana music. I use it outside the front head.

I cannot speak to the Audix, but would recommend the 52 without reservation.
thumbsupthumbsupthumbsup

Thanks A LOT for all this info guys, things are getting more clear to me, very helpful descriptions of the sound from everyone
Old 17th November 2009
  #13
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jproc's Avatar
I have both the D6 & the Beta52, and it really depends what I'm recording...

If I want more of an attack-y sound, I go with the D6... if I want bigger, thicker, bassier I go with the B52...

For other uses, the B52's make great tom mics if you have enough room... I did a recent recording with B52's on kick, floor tom, and rack tom (with a mono overhead & a snare mic) and it sounded huge... it was the drummer's idea - first good idea a drummer has ever had when I was recording
I've used the D6 on floor tom, and its acceptable, but a little too mid-scooped sounding for me...

Both mics make decent bass amp mics (although I have other mics I prefer on bass) -- again, the D6 tends to have a bit of mid-scoop, the B52 sounds a bit fuller to me...
Old 17th November 2009
  #14
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dfahb44's Avatar
 

Here's a link of all those kicks plus more.


Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!


I personally think the AKG d112 is a horrible mic, sounds like a basketball hitting the ground. The Beta 52 has a very punchy sound, very bassy with a decent attack. The D6 is straight up click.


D6
YouTube - girotube's Channel

Beta 52
YouTube - Processing the kick drum Shure Mic Beta 52A
Old 17th November 2009
  #15
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syntax's Avatar
 

This is one of those cases where looking at the manufacture's frequency plot will actually help.

The Beta-52 has a big dip around 400 Hz and a peak centered at 4K (for beater click). Depending of proximity, it also has more sub bass. The theory of this design is that the mic is effectively pre-eqing the kick in the most common way. You can, as everyone has explained, vary the tone a good deal with positioning. To me the 52 sounds decidedly modern because of the mid-cut, and the boom/beater emphasis. I like this but it I also like to put an LDC outside or back a few feet looking at the kick as a second option.

Shure - Microphones - Beta 52A Instrument Microphone

The Audix has a similar design principle. It has a low mid-cut (though it is centered higher) and a high peak for beater sound. The difference is, and this reflects in what we're hearing, the high peak is much broader (2K-15k), has no 7k dip like the Shure, and the sub-bass rolls off after the boost.

The AKG D-112 and the 52 share some similiarity in what is boosted and cut in the high frequencies (both notch out 7k-ish).
Old 17th November 2009
  #16
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Lifted's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfahb44 View Post
Here's a link of all those kicks plus more.


Kick drum mic shootout - 11 mics head to head!


I personally think the AKG d112 is a horrible mic, sounds like a basketball hitting the ground. The Beta 52 has a very punchy sound, very bassy with a decent attack. The D6 is straight up click.


D6
YouTube - girotube's Channel

Beta 52
YouTube - Processing the kick drum Shure Mic Beta 52A

THANKS a lot for the Kick Drum Shootout

What sucks is that it doesn't have D-6 by itself, it has D-6 along with another mic. Beta 52 sounds NICE!

In the first video, I have a feeling the kick has been compressed, because the says snare is not compressed, but doesn't say anything about kick or other instruments, so my guess it went through the processing, like that second video. (This sounds really nice though)

What's so misleading is that second video Beta 52 kick drum sound sounds so weak, even with processing, but on the mic shoot-out it sounds GREAT.

I guess it all depends on what kind of drum we are dealing with, and how it's placed.

BUT it would be nice to actually hear the comparison between D-6 and Beta 52, because it's not really a comparison between these 2 sounds, I would bet money it's different drums as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by syntax View Post
This is one of those cases where looking at the manufacture's frequency plot will actually help.

The Beta-52 has a big dip around 400 Hz and a peak centered at 4K (for beater click). Depending of proximity, it also has more sub bass. The theory of this design is that the mic is effectively pre-eqing the kick in the most common way. You can, as everyone has explained, vary the tone a good deal with positioning. To me the 52 sounds decidedly modern because of the mid-cut, and the boom/beater emphasis. I like this but it I also like to put an LDC outside or back a few feet looking at the kick as a second option.

Shure - Microphones - Beta 52A Instrument Microphone

The Audix has a similar design principle. It has a low mid-cut (though it is centered higher) and a high peak for beater sound. The difference is, and this reflects in what we're hearing, the high peak is much broader (2K-15k), has no 7k dip like the Shure, and the sub-bass rolls off after the boost.

The AKG D-112 and the 52 share some similiarity in what is boosted and cut in the high frequencies (both notch out 7k-ish).
Thanks for input. I noticed that man, I was on both of the sites today, but it's hard to understand fully without hearing it, so I'm trying to squeeze as much info as possible so I know what I'm dealing with.

Thanks a lot

Quote:
Originally Posted by jproc View Post
I have both the D6 & the Beta52, and it really depends what I'm recording...

If I want more of an attack-y sound, I go with the D6... if I want bigger, thicker, bassier I go with the B52...

For other uses, the B52's make great tom mics if you have enough room... I did a recent recording with B52's on kick, floor tom, and rack tom (with a mono overhead & a snare mic) and it sounded huge... it was the drummer's idea - first good idea a drummer has ever had when I was recording
I've used the D6 on floor tom, and its acceptable, but a little too mid-scooped sounding for me...

Both mics make decent bass amp mics (although I have other mics I prefer on bass) -- again, the D6 tends to have a bit of mid-scoop, the B52 sounds a bit fuller to me...


Thanks a lot bro, I appreciate it.

Hahah I have used a kick drum mic from Audio Technica Drum Kit on the tom, and it sounded AWESOME!!!!!

HAHAHA it's funny cause the rest of the mics in the kit suck, so it's like "snare" pop..."tom1" pop..."tom2"pop....
"tom3" ...BLAM!!!
WHOOOOAAAA....WTF WAS THAT?!



Old 17th November 2009
  #17
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Lifted's Avatar
 

Here are SM7B Kick Drum samples we recorded about 2 weeks ago, I was impressed actually thumbsup

We had to crank Presonus FireStudio Project pre to the max, in order to get decent levels
Attached Files

Kick Drum Sm7B.wav (1.62 MB, 7395 views)

Kick Drum Sm7B 2.wav (1.35 MB, 7388 views)

Kick Drum Sm7B 3.wav (1.76 MB, 7495 views)

Old 18th November 2009
  #18
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it really depnds on music genre , all of this mics are great .

I had beta 52 ,nice and warm very deep great mic , Re 20 also great not that deep as beta more vintage sounding , TLM 103 great on BD for some music . D 112 is great for rock , heavy , pop , Jazz etc you can always find a way to make it sound right. In solo sounds really bad but it cuts really great thru the mix and that's the best thing about this mic.
Old 18th November 2009
  #19
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Wait can't you just eq a 52 or 112 to sound like a d6?

Seems like most of it is just the radical eq curve.
Old 18th November 2009
  #20
Gear Nut
 

i love the d6 on rock drum kits,
live and studio,
it has such a nice defined low end.
you can't just eq other mics to sound the same, there are so many other characteristics that affect the sound the mic produces
i find the d112 to be a horrible kick drum mic, it needs far to much work positioning and eqing
the beta 52 is ok, but needs a 91 inside, and has a flabby low end
the m88 is better nicer low end and teams up great with a 91
but the bottom end a d6 produces great, and its not hard to notch out a little of the click if its to clicky (which ive never had to do)
Old 18th November 2009
  #21
I own the D6 & have used the B52, D112 & RE20. IMO, the D6 destroys them all. I like the B52 alright, just not as much. The B52 is much "poofier" as someone mentioned earlier. The D112 has it's presence boost at a weird frequency & IMO, a terrible sounding one. As far as the RE20, I have never gotten even remotely usable kick drum results using this mic. Which is weird because I usually swear by EV mics. Just my .02
Old 18th November 2009
  #22
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Lifted's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bass man View Post
it really depnds on music genre , all of this mics are great .

I had beta 52 ,nice and warm very deep great mic , Re 20 also great not that deep as beta more vintage sounding , TLM 103 great on BD for some music . D 112 is great for rock , heavy , pop , Jazz etc you can always find a way to make it sound right. In solo sounds really bad but it cuts really great thru the mix and that's the best thing about this mic.
Got you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by silence2-38554 View Post
I own the D6 & have used the B52, D112 & RE20. IMO, the D6 destroys them all. I like the B52 alright, just not as much. The B52 is much "poofier" as someone mentioned earlier. The D112 has it's presence boost at a weird frequency & IMO, a terrible sounding one. As far as the RE20, I have never gotten even remotely usable kick drum results using this mic. Which is weird because I usually swear by EV mics. Just my .02
Good info man. thumbsup

Quote:
Originally Posted by 63hz View Post
i love the d6 on rock drum kits,
live and studio,
it has such a nice defined low end.
you can't just eq other mics to sound the same, there are so many other characteristics that affect the sound the mic produces
i find the d112 to be a horrible kick drum mic, it needs far to much work positioning and eqing
the beta 52 is ok, but needs a 91 inside, and has a flabby low end
the m88 is better nicer low end and teams up great with a 91
but the bottom end a d6 produces great, and its not hard to notch out a little of the click if its to clicky (which ive never had to do)
Very nice

Can you use D6 on toms (does it sound good), or is it generally just kick drum mic?
Old 18th November 2009
  #23
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Tapeworm's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TehGuitarist View Post
Wait can't you just eq a 52 or 112 to sound like a d6?

Seems like most of it is just the radical eq curve.
I have had a chance to use all three but currently I own the b52

I never tried to make the b52 sound like the d6 (side by side) but I don't think a simple eq adjustment will do it.

The b52 is very round. While it does have some attack, it's magic lies in the giant low boom. Placement can be finicky. I have never found a "magic spot" that works well on all kicks. You have to play with it IMO. It can be pretty punchy while still very, very thick with the right placement. Compression goes a long way in shaping and keepin g the massive low end under control.


The d6 is a different beast. Placement is not nearly as critical. It has a solid sharp low combined with a snappy beater. It's snap is much more pronounced than the b52 but it's low end is not as "boomy" or thick as the b52. Very modern - I can see it for metal or maybe modern pop/punk.


I never liked the d112. Sounded like rubber to me. "Fwaap". Not a solid enough low end for me but many others love it so what do I know. I have wondered what it might sound like on a kick with two solid heads (no cutout).

At some time I may pick up a d6 of my own for the flavor that it gives. I can't get my b52 to snap like that but I couldn't get the d6 to give me that huge thickness of the b52.
Old 18th November 2009
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapeworm View Post
I have had a chance to use all three but currently I own the b52

I never tried to make the b52 sound like the d6 (side by side) but I don't think a simple eq adjustment will do it.

The b52 is very round. While it does have some attack, it's magic lies in the giant low boom. Placement can be finicky. I have never found a "magic spot" that works well on all kicks. You have to play with it IMO. It can be pretty punchy while still very, very thick with the right placement. Compression goes a long way in shaping and keepin g the massive low end under control.


The d6 is a different beast. Placement is not nearly as critical. It has a solid sharp low combined with a snappy beater. It's snap is much more pronounced than the b52 but it's low end is not as "boomy" or thick as the b52. Very modern - I can see it for metal or maybe modern pop/punk.


I never liked the d112. Sounded like rubber to me. "Fwaap". Not a solid enough low end for me but many others love it so what do I know. I have wondered what it might sound like on a kick with two solid heads (no cutout).

At some time I may pick up a d6 of my own for the flavor that it gives. I can't get my b52 to snap like that but I couldn't get the d6 to give me that huge thickness of the b52.

So with B52 you always scrambling around trying to find a sweet spot?

Where do you place D6 when you track?
Old 18th November 2009
  #25
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ThunderShepherd's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifted View Post
So with B52 you always scrambling around trying to find a sweet spot?

Where do you place D6 when you track?
i feel like the D6 is rather difficult to find a sweet spot. I usually line up the ports on the side with the sound hole and angle until it sounds good, I try to get a good thump and not a lot of click. I also pair it with a SM91 sitting inside on some blankets and its magical. I like the SM91 a lot.


I might have to try my PR40 on kick, i never thought of that!
Old 19th November 2009
  #26
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Tapeworm's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifted View Post
So with B52 you always scrambling around trying to find a sweet spot?

Where do you place D6 when you track?
My B52 has been put everywhere from the opening of the soundhole to about 3" from the beater. It just all depends. Once you find a good spot, it's gold.

The D6 was borrowed. Once just inside the soundhole, it sounded pretty good. A little further in, it sounded pretty good. Farther in still, it sounded pretty good. Modern hard rock / metally sounding. Kinda fun

The d112 was also borrowed. I didn't get really wowed anywhere. Rubbey sound to me. Like I said though, others really like this mic. Maybe if I spent more time with it but I went back to the B52.

The d12 gets a lot of love around here. I never used one. Not sure how easy these are to find.

Some others love the re20. I never used one. I can't comment.
Old 19th November 2009
  #27
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I have had the D112 for a long time, it works well. Never used the D6.
My bandmate has a 52, and I like it too. One thing I will say is that the 52 *RULES* on
many a guitar amp. Especially the Vox AC30 reissue that we have. Pure butter.
Also, 52 or D112 on floor tom is pretty fantastic.

The reason I mention these uses is you might consider them in an effort to choose a
mic that can do more for you than just kick drum. PR40 is probably in this category as
well. I would think out of these choices, the D6 is probably at the bottom of the
versatility list.

And on the cheap condenser for kick drum tip: AT 3035. Just kills every time
I try it on kick. Wonderful!
Old 19th November 2009
  #28
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ears2thesky's Avatar
I say use 'em both. The click and tight lows of the D6 actually can blend well with the thud of the 52. Using two mics two capture different aspects of a source and then combining them is a tried and true practice. Place each where it conveys the tonal aspects you desire, and beware of phase issues you may have to massage later.I would generally use different mics for recording, but for live sound they're both common.

I think to suggest that "you ditch both of those" really ignores the premise of the OP's initial question. Perhaps if the question was "What kick mic do you recommend and why?" that response would be appropriate.
Old 19th November 2009
  #29
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MREVOL's Avatar
 

One more mic you should definitely check out is the EV 868. Its very underrated.

I have an 868, 52, and d6 and switch depending on the session. You can get really good results with the d6 and a sub kick on the outside. But everyone is correct when they say the d6 is a little more click-y then the others.
Old 19th November 2009
  #30
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Lifted's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mertmo2 View Post
I have had the D112 for a long time, it works well. Never used the D6.
My bandmate has a 52, and I like it too. One thing I will say is that the 52 *RULES* on
many a guitar amp. Especially the Vox AC30 reissue that we have. Pure butter.
Also, 52 or D112 on floor tom is pretty fantastic.

The reason I mention these uses is you might consider them in an effort to choose a
mic that can do more for you than just kick drum. PR40 is probably in this category as
well. I would think out of these choices, the D6 is probably at the bottom of the
versatility list.

And on the cheap condenser for kick drum tip: AT 3035. Just kills every time
I try it on kick. Wonderful!
VERY NICE thumbsup

Quote:
Originally Posted by ears2thesky View Post
I say use 'em both. The click and tight lows of the D6 actually can blend well with the thud of the 52. Using two mics two capture different aspects of a source and then combining them is a tried and true practice. Place each where it conveys the tonal aspects you desire, and beware of phase issues you may have to massage later.I would generally use different mics for recording, but for live sound they're both common.

I think to suggest that "you ditch both of those" really ignores the premise of the OP's initial question. Perhaps if the question was "What kick mic do you recommend and why?" that response would be appropriate.
Thanks for your reply, unfortunetly I can't have both, I can buy only one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MREVOL View Post
One more mic you should definitely check out is the EV 868. Its very underrated.

I have an 868, 52, and d6 and switch depending on the session. You can get really good results with the d6 and a sub kick on the outside. But everyone is correct when they say the d6 is a little more click-y then the others.


How would you describe the sound compared to Shure Beta 52 and Audix D6?
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