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Mackie Big Knob Issue
Old 11th November 2009
  #1
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Mackie Big Knob Issue

Hello!

I'm using my Big Knob with my RME Multiface 2 and my Adam P22a. It would be cool If other users would do the same test: Use a mono signal, reverse the Phase on the left side and sent it to the Big Knob. Press the mono Button on the Big Knob - nothing should remain. But in my case, there's really much remaining in the upper Mids and Highs. Did you experience the same thing? And what's up with other Monitor controllers (CS)?
Thanks!
Old 11th November 2009
  #2
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That's scary, but it does say Mackie on it. You should've seen it coming. I'll give it a shot with a Monitor Station in a few days. Monitor station doesn't sound right to me and has awful metering (calibration is a joke). Its headphones aren't half bad though IMO. I'm working on my Midas so I can use it to monitor from.
Old 12th November 2009
  #3
Heard this as well...

I heard from a source to whom I do not give oodles of credit that apparently the switching mechanism is not *passive* and colors the sound unlike the Presonus piece.

I really don't know what the hell to make of it all.

I'm merely repeating someone else's words, so please don't discredit me for providing bad info- just what I heard.

Last edited by rocketman; 12th November 2009 at 01:49 AM.. Reason: Sometimes I'm grammatically challenged.
Old 12th November 2009
  #4
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Hey!

Yes, the circuitry of the Big Knob is active. But normally, It shouldn't remain such a high level. It would be kind if presonus users could check this issue, too (or perhaps other Big knob users).

Thanks!
Old 12th November 2009
  #5
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hmm...got check this out
Old 12th November 2009
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vls View Post
Hello!

I'm using my Big Knob with my RME Multiface 2 and my Adam P22a. It would be cool If other users would do the same test: Use a mono signal, reverse the Phase on the left side and sent it to the Big Knob. Press the mono Button on the Big Knob - nothing should remain. But in my case, there's really much remaining in the upper Mids and Highs. Did you experience the same thing? And what's up with other Monitor controllers (CS)?
Thanks!

Could you give more detail on what you are trying to do and your setup on the BK. I'll be glad to try for ya.

Never had a problem with my Big Knob or any other Mackie product I've owned or used over the years. But then, I try not to waste time being overly technical with things. Turn it on, use it, send the results to clients, they're happy, repeat.
Old 12th November 2009
  #7
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Hey!
The idea is to send a Signal with different polarity on the left and the right to the Big Knob - with the Mono Button pressed, it should cancel completely. So: Mono Source Signal, one of the Output's channels (left or right) software phase reversed and then check with the Mono button.
Thanks!
Old 12th November 2009
  #8
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Man... You shouldnt have gone there. tutt
Old 12th November 2009
  #9
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I've got time to do this when I get off work tonight on the monitor station. Results coming soon.
Old 12th November 2009
  #10
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Hi,

I just tested this.

here is my setup:

Cubase 5 to Firepod to Big Knob to Carver amp to B&W matrix monitors.


I took a distorted electric guitar (monophonic recording) and duplicated it to get 2 tracks of it. Panned hard left and right. Reversed phase.

When I press mono, at normal mixing levels, I hear nothing, everything cancels out. If I put it to ear bleeding level (big knob almost on max), I can hear the signal and some volume variations.

I used electric guitar (distorted) because it has some bass, mid and highs.



You might have to do more tests, maybe it is because you were using stereo sound or non correlative sources (like 2 pink noise generators)
Old 12th November 2009
  #11
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ok in a protools session I recorded a mono test tone, added a 1band eq, dubbed the track, panned them hard L/R, phrase flip on the dubbed track panned hard R.

drum roll please.

Hit the mono switch on the BK...and the signal canceled.

Mackie really really sssssssucks...(joking)
Old 12th November 2009
  #12
I have done this exact test before explaining phase cancellation to a friend, so I absolutely know it cancelled on mine. From Cubase I ran a Lynx Aurora to the Big Knob to Event ASP-8s. My first thought was that something is happening in you DAC before the Big Knob.
EDIT: I actually use an RME Multiface (Nuendo branded) as the front end for the Lynx. Maybe I'll try hooking up the RME and see if I get the same issue.
Old 13th November 2009
  #13
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Well, I was going to do this test with a signal generator for the monitor station, but I can't find any of my diagnostic cables. I've been looking for a half hour tearing everything apart! Maybe I'll just get new ones...

Actually, just realized I have a 1khz oscillator on my soundcraft 200... but that won't give me high end or low end. Were you haveing problems at midrange?
Old 13th November 2009
  #14
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I will re-check this issue today... Perhaps I made something wrong, but I surely used a correlated Signal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmongstTheLiving View Post
Actually, just realized I have a 1khz oscillator on my soundcraft 200...
You mean that button that should be better protected like this one: http://www.enjoymedia.ch/images/gadg...c_button_2.jpg
Old 13th November 2009
  #15
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Hi
The only 'fair' way to do this to actually test the BK (or whichever) is with a mono signal, run into a splitter (or parallels on a patchfield) then feed one into left wired correctly and the other with a 'cross wired' cable into the right input. So for example left is pin 2 of XLR hot and right is pin 3 Hot (or equivalent with trs cables).
Fudges using any 2 channels of a convertor box (digital) are not necessarily testing the monitor system.
Matt S
Old 13th November 2009
  #16
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Washington's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vls View Post
I will re-check this issue today... Perhaps I made something wrong, but I surely used a correlated Signal.
You probably have sent a stereo signal to your BK, and thus cancelled the center only. Check again. The Mackie Big Knob for one is a decent Mackie product, really. And very welll thought.
Old 13th November 2009
  #17
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The Mackie big knob, actually , is a very badly thought of product! Fine for home use but it's defo NOT a serious piece of kit. Fro similar money there are better options. If you're gonna go active - it's got to be high quality and that doesnt come cheap!!

However - I dont think you should have the problems you're having - they certainly aren't so poor as to be unable to functionally do what's asked of them. I suspect that - all things being correct on connections - one side of the amp stage has broken. I had the same thing many years ago on the monitor section of a Mackie HUI {a great controller with an absolutely terrible monitor section}. So something is amiss. Either you have a broken channel or gain mismatch etc etc

Oh an M Syson is also correct - it is possible it aint the BK....
Old 13th November 2009
  #18
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So, i re-checked It and there is finally the result: The Signal cancels completely when the left channel is +1,7dB relative to the right... (I think officially it's product variation?) The unit outputs about a dB more on one channel... I'll leave the Big Knob for my home cinema and go for a... nano patch? or the tc knob thing? Just something passive and reliable!
Old 13th November 2009
  #19
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dfegad big knob
Old 13th November 2009
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vls View Post
So, i re-checked It and there is finally the result: The Signal cancels completely when the left channel is +1,7dB relative to the right... (I think officially it's product variation?) The unit outputs about a dB more on one channel... I'll leave the Big Knob for my home cinema and go for a... nano patch? or the tc knob thing? Just something passive and reliable!
passive stuff can suffer from the same issues - there are attenuators at input on many. Anyway - good luck. Coleman do a really good unit at Β£700 uk....
Old 14th November 2009
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vls View Post
So, i re-checked It and there is finally the result: The Signal cancels completely when the left channel is +1,7dB relative to the right... (I think officially it's product variation?) The unit outputs about a dB more on one channel... I'll leave the Big Knob for my home cinema and go for a... nano patch? or the tc knob thing? Just something passive and reliable!
This is probably your sound card that is outputting higher or something else in the chain.

Like said previously, inverting the phase in the digital word is not the right way of testing.

You have to use EXACTLY the same analog source, split it and invert in the XLR.


To people who do not like the big knob:
The Big Knob CANNOT be responsable of bad sound, bad mix, etc.
The Big Knob is used by a lot of people who produces PRO stuff at home. When I say PRO it's stuff that will sell for millions of copies, music for movies (big releases), etc.
Old 14th November 2009
  #22
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i like the big knob...better than the presonus and for the money the avocet
Old 14th November 2009
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superburtm View Post
i like the big knob...better than the presonus and for the money the avocet
Serious?
C,mon the big knob gives a colors on the sound thats not normal.
What you listen is not the real signal thru the big knob.
Old 14th November 2009
  #24
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i have not had issue with it...i dont have translation problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by exwel View Post
Serious?
C,mon the big knob gives a colors on the sound thats not normal.
What you listen is not the real signal thru the big knob.
Old 14th November 2009
  #25
Gear Maniac
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenkas View Post
This is probably your sound card that is outputting higher or something else in the chain.

Like said previously, inverting the phase in the digital word is not the right way of testing.

You have to use EXACTLY the same analog source, split it and invert in the XLR.


To people who do not like the big knob:
The Big Knob CANNOT be responsable of bad sound, bad mix, etc.
The Big Knob is used by a lot of people who produces PRO stuff at home. When I say PRO it's stuff that will sell for millions of copies, music for movies (big releases), etc.
Hi!

I know I should have done it the cable way, but >1,5 dB of offset are just too much. For sorting out DA-issues, I made the same test the other way round.... there, the left channel had to be set to -1,* dB instead of 1,* dB
Old 14th November 2009
  #26
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Hi
Although it should be correct, there is a trim control on the rear of the unit.
Repeat the HARD WIRED mono into both channels test with the trim control at fully UP and again at fully DOWN. It may be that this pot is not tracking correctly and is out at the level you are using.
I see there is one for each source so others may be different.
Personally I would not have user variable alignment controls other than say a 6 position switch to set levels as it is simply asking for channel to channel inaccuracy. However, at least one end of the control's range should be within a small fraction of a dB. Assuming this test reveals that one 'end' of the control is accurate I would suggest using all sources the same.
If it really IS more than 1dB out and you have measured it correctly it should be brought to the attention of your dealer or Mackie.
Matt S
Old 15th November 2009
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superburtm View Post
i have not had issue with it...i dont have translation problems
Ok thats fine for you.
But please try to listen to a song with and without the bigknob then you hear the diffrence.
Sorry but i was suprised when i did the test.
The diffrence was to big for me.
Old 15th November 2009
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exwel View Post
Ok thats fine for you.
But please try to listen to a song with and without the bigknob then you hear the diffrence.
Sorry but i was suprised when i did the test.
The diffrence was to big for me.
ok I'll give it a shot
Old 15th November 2009
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superburtm View Post
ok I'll give it a shot
Big Knob does have great features for the price - but raw sound quality, even for the price, it's not good. Central station bad build quality , for the price - excellent build quality.

Avocet .... nothing to touch it - although Xmon in ICON systems is as good.

Good luck with the test - I think you'll be horrified
Old 15th November 2009
  #30
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so I guess I'll just come right out of the converters into my monitors which are active?
And just attenuate the monitors?
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