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Why does everyone use dynamics on cabs? Dynamic Microphones
Old 7th September 2005
  #1
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petsematary's Avatar
 

Why does everyone use dynamics on cabs?

Why is it that everyone seems to be using dynamic mics such as the SM57 on guitar cabs? Why not use condensors...is it because of the lower SPL tolerance? That shouldn't be a problem with a small studio combo at least...

I just saw a pic in a magazine, of Lenny Kravitz using a Neumann U-Something on a stack, that's what started the thread.

Explain.
Old 7th September 2005
  #2
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PhilE's Avatar
I usually have a mixture- royer 121 ribs sound great on guitar cabs- U87 is good, Groove Tube TM6 but SM7 is a must for me.
Old 7th September 2005
  #3
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petsematary's Avatar
 

Anyone else than me tried the CAD E100? Worked great on a Vox combo.
Old 7th September 2005
  #4
Jai guru deva om
 
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I tried the E100 on a little acoustic amp recently and it did a great job. Never tried it, but don't imagine it would work well for heavy riff type playing. The E100 was the e1002 that I used, had good detail and handled the volume well. It delivered a lot of bite.

War
Old 7th September 2005
  #5
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Beezoboy's Avatar
 

Its because you can get a dynamics right up on the cone with less nastyness more often than not. Not to mention, if I were going to choose a mic to blow up with high SPL, it would not be my $2,000 condensor.

Granted there are always different circumstances. I once used a U87 as the main guitar mic for an entire session and it sounded great too. Its really whatever works "within reason."

Beez
Old 7th September 2005
  #6
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Sounds Great's Avatar
 

I've never used a dynamic on my guitar cab, currently a 4/12 with a Marshall JMP50 head.

I've tried my SM57 as well as a Sennheiser 421. Didn't like them there. I have used a Nakamichi 300, C414eb, AT4050, and my current choice, the Gefell M900.

Old 7th September 2005
  #7
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Lately the AT4050 has been my go to mic for GTR, distorted or clean. I've always been let down by 57's. The pattern is too tight for my taste. I have on occasion used my Earthworks TC 30 on cabs as well, from a distance. Great Mics!!!

B
Old 7th September 2005
  #8
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Sounds Great's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BJohnston
Lately the AT4050 has been my go to mic for GTR, distorted or clean. I've always been let down by 57's. The pattern is too tight for my taste. I have on occasion used my Earthworks TC 30 on cabs as well, from a distance. Great Mics!!!

B
B, the pattern on the Gefell is quite loose. Even right up at the speaker you still get room sound, amazing microphone. Of course the downside of that is there can be isolation issues.

Try one if you ever get a chance.
Old 7th September 2005
  #9
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just yesterday i recorded clav through a (not well known, but great sounding) holland amp, mic'd with a tlm 103. sounded great.

--jon
Old 7th September 2005
  #10
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Because LDCs reveal too much detail.

Detail is great, but it can be a real PITA when it's mix time.

With distorted guitars, smoothness really is what's important. Consider the most popular guitar cab speakers- greenbacks, vintage 30s etc. They're all very mellow speakers.

It's easy to get a lot of hiss and fizz and crunch, it's harder to get the actual tone meaning the actual chord frequencies.
Old 7th September 2005
  #11


The dynamics (especially those without much response past 8kHz) tend to smooth out the speaker cone "break-up". This happens when vibrations in the cone cause it to ring like a bell. You don't hear it unless you are up close, like a typical mic.



-tINY

Old 7th September 2005
  #12
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r0ck1r0ck2's Avatar
 

they're cheap sturdy effective and are manufactured in a myriad of designs....
they can impart a very unique sound....
for instance a RE-20 vs a sennheiser 421 vs some freaky ass mid 60s chrome job...
and they cheap....
Old 7th September 2005
  #13
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For most distorted guitar tones, you don't really want / need the added response and sensitivity to the higher frequencies.

Again, I stress for most distorted guitar tones, everything beyond 8 khz is a lot of nasty white noise, and everything below 100 hz is mostly hum and rattle, anyway. Electric guitar is a broadband-challenged instrument that sits smack dab in the midrange, and that's pretty much where it likes to be.

Keep in mind this is very generally-speaking. I've actually gotten some good to great sounds using large diaphragm vocal condensers on mostly clean to mildly-distorted, so you can't always make broad generalizations.
Old 8th September 2005
  #14
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Someone mentioned Royers...I'm guessing that's a ribbon mic. How do those things work on guitar cabs? Never had the pleasure of trying one out...on anything. A bit over my budget unfortunately.
Old 8th September 2005
  #15
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cdog's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonCraig
just yesterday i recorded clav through a (not well known, but great sounding) holland amp, mic'd with a tlm 103. sounded great.

--jon

Yeah, those Hollands are nice.

I'm definitely a fan of ribbon mics on guitar.

Also, there are a lot of dynamic mics besides the 57.

Old 8th September 2005
  #16
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Sounds Great's Avatar
 

I heard the Beyer M201 is also good for this. In fact, I now own one. I'll have to try it there one of these days. heh
Old 8th September 2005
  #17
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Quote:
B, the pattern on the Gefell is quite loose. Even right up at the speaker you still get room sound, amazing microphone. Of course the downside of that is there can be isolation issues.

Try one if you ever get a chance.
Rob
Will do...definitely.
B
Old 8th September 2005
  #18
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BradM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by petsematary
Someone mentioned Royers...I'm guessing that's a ribbon mic. How do those things work on guitar cabs? Never had the pleasure of trying one out...on anything. A bit over my budget unfortunately.
They are very nice. Get yourself a Shiny Box 46 ribbon instead for only $150. I typically find myself EQ'ing the Royer R121 a lot on distorted electric guitar. The Shiny Box is a lot brigther than the Royer (still smooth!) so I can envision myself using much less EQ and still capturing a great sound. See my post on the Shiny Box mic thread in the New Products forum.

Brad
Old 8th September 2005
  #19
Gear Maniac
 

Dynamics are cheaper and smoother... alot of people do use condensers though.. or a mix of the two.. Ribbons are the way to go though..
Old 7th December 2005
  #20
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anybody have any recording clips or comparisons of that Shiny Box 46 ribbon? I'm really interested since i'd love a ribbon to mix things up when all I've got in my little setup is an sm57 sm58 Rode NT1A and a Rode NTK.

The sm57 on the cab and the NTK in the room is how i normally record my guitars but i'm dying to get a ribbon but won't be affording a royer any time with taking a loan out for recording school in Hollywood right now.
Old 7th December 2005
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StrykeBack
i'm dying to get a ribbon but won't be affording a royer any time with taking a loan out for recording school in Hollywood right now.
I highly recommend the Beyer m160. It became my fave guitar cab mic pretty fast and I guess there's a reason why Eddie Kramer reportedly always used it on Hendrix and Page's amps.
With the SM57, M160 and the NTK for room sounds (I never liked the NTK and sold mine but it works good for rooms or FOK) you should have your bases covered.

There's a lot of talk about ribbons like the m160 being 'too fragile' for guitar cabs. It works great for me, I might not have the m160 touch the grille but I'll place it pretty close usually and I never had any problems so far.
The m16o is also great for percussion.
Old 8th December 2005
  #22
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by faeflora
Because LDCs reveal too much detail.

Detail is great, but it can be a real PITA when it's mix time.

With distorted guitars, smoothness really is what's important. Consider the most popular guitar cab speakers- greenbacks, vintage 30s etc. They're all very mellow speakers.

It's easy to get a lot of hiss and fizz and crunch, it's harder to get the actual tone meaning the actual chord frequencies.
smooth? greenbacks are midrangey and ratty with early cone breakup. not what i'd call mello at all. some even consider them bright!
Old 8th December 2005
  #23
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Sorry, what I meant by mellow is "midrange based with extraneous highs over 3-4K".
Old 8th December 2005
  #24
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Ruudman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleep over jack
smooth? greenbacks are midrangey and ratty with early cone breakup. not what i'd call mello at all. some even consider them bright!
bright? then they must have heard some bad examples.

Good GB's are mellower than average vintage 30's.



ruudman
Old 8th December 2005
  #25
Gear Head
 

I almost always put a 57 as close as possible and some condenser (I must admit as my favorites are usually taken to do other things, I end up with a tlm-103) at a distance og 2-3 ft. That gives me a lot of flexibility in the mix; the dry, controlled 57 for definition and the condenser for ring, grit and shimmer. I usually pan the tracks 90 degrees apart, but never centered around <0>.

Once I had a nu-metal band, who were dubbing walls of guitar, and we ended up with an audix d2 (also dynamic) to thin it up so it wouldn't crowd up. Worked like a charm.
Old 9th December 2005
  #26
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max cooper's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknocker
I highly recommend the Beyer m160. It became my fave guitar cab mic pretty fast and I guess there's a reason why Eddie Kramer reportedly always used it on Hendrix and Page's amps.
I've decided that a pair of 160 's is my next mic buy. I love the sound on drumkits as well. They're about $600 each USD.
Old 9th December 2005
  #27
jordan19
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknocker
I highly recommend the Beyer m160. It became my fave guitar cab mic pretty fast and I guess there's a reason why Eddie Kramer reportedly always used it on Hendrix and Page's amps.
With the SM57, M160 and the NTK for room sounds (I never liked the NTK and sold mine but it works good for rooms or FOK) you should have your bases covered.

There's a lot of talk about ribbons like the m160 being 'too fragile' for guitar cabs. It works great for me, I might not have the m160 touch the grille but I'll place it pretty close usually and I never had any problems so far.
The m16o is also great for percussion.
i concur great choice for cabs.

i had been using an i5 and an AT4047 for awhile... which does a fairly nice job as well.
Old 9th December 2005
  #28
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cdog's Avatar
They work. They're cheap and available. They sound predictable.

Engineers like things being predictable.

Go figure.

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