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need power conditioner
Old 15th June 2009
  #1
need power conditioner

HI,

I need some advice for power conditioner ..

I have 10 devices 110volt :
-tc powercore x8
-lixecon mx400
-apogee rosseta 800
-pacifica
-api 512+avides ma5 in Adesign rack
-neumann m149
-RME ff400
-pc
-presonus mcr ( I just buy it and I dont know if need power )
-presonus faderport


and 7 devices 220volt :
-yamaha o1v96
-2 adam montor
-2 yamaha msp10
-2 screens

note:( I dont have grounding )

I am waiting your help ..there are no budget .
is 400$ enough for a good one or two ??

Last edited by bmss; 15th June 2009 at 04:47 PM.. Reason: miss important note
Old 16th June 2009
  #2
Old 16th June 2009
  #3
Lives for gear
 

i would be very worried about any rig that isnt grounded
Old 16th June 2009
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
kheftel's Avatar
 

Why do you need 220v for your 01v96?
Old 16th June 2009
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by kheftel View Post
Why do you need 220v for your 01v96?

7 devices 220volt :
-yamaha o1v96
-2 adam montor
-2 yamaha msp10
-2 screens

my o1v96 is 220V
Old 17th June 2009
  #6
Gear Maniac
 
kheftel's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmss View Post
7 devices 220volt :
-yamaha o1v96
-2 adam montor
-2 yamaha msp10
-2 screens

my o1v96 is 220V
You must be outside the US, somewhere that uses 220 volt? I use a Monster Power Conditioner - cost me about $200, is 2U high, has probably 10+ outlets, but I don't know if would do 220volt. I haven't had any experience doing audio on 220v power.
Old 17th June 2009
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
Jonesfromindia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kheftel View Post
You must be outside the US, somewhere that uses 220 volt? I use a Monster Power Conditioner - cost me about $200, is 2U high, has probably 10+ outlets, but I don't know if would do 220volt. I haven't had any experience doing audio on 220v power.
pro 2500?

it wont.

call up furman. they make 220v conditioners, im almost positive.
Old 29th June 2009
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
kheftel's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesfromindia View Post
pro 2500?
Most likely, yeah. I agree with jonesfromindia, there's gotta be someone who makes power conditioners for 220v. I don't have any experience with doing audio at 220v.
Old 12th May 2011
  #9
Gear Maniac
 
Bending_Bus's Avatar
 

I need to ditch three Monster 2500s and get equivalent 220v units.

Furman does have some (see PL-8) but then I need to get a bunch of adaptors of some sort (err anyone know what kind?) to plug the USA stuff into the back. Isn't there anyone making a rack mount unit that can take 220v and provide 10 USA style plugins? Cause I'll take three if that exists...
Old 12th May 2011
  #10
Lives for gear
need power conditioner

In the US 220/240VAC is what is called split phase. Meaning two 110/120VAC line running in opposite polarity (like a balanced mic line) around a common neutral. 110 is made by taking just one leg and the neutral. I have no idea how it's done wherever you are.

If it's like the US you can get an electrician to make up what is called a power distribution box. This can take in split phase 220 and have both 220 and 110 outlets. There's a company on the net, Pro Sound & Stage, who made the distro for my live sound rig for much less than the big boy distro companies. They do custom work and if you can't find someone local, you may want to contact them.

But you don't really want "conditioning". Conditioning that makes a difference costs big bucks. Like iso transformers, balanced supplies, line impedance devices and so on Surge suppressors and the like are actually liabilities in audio.
Old 12th May 2011
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
Bending_Bus's Avatar
 

My USA gear has 220v switches, so I can just plug the gear into the local 220v/60hz power with a simple adapter and be done. However since plugging 40 pieces of gear into a few outlets isn't possible, need glorified rack mount power strips (and if they even out the power or provide protection all the better).

If the answer is there are no stock 220v power strips that accept USA 3-prong plugs in existence, then my question becomes...how do I plug my USA cords into what Furman calls a "10A IEC", pictured below...maybe I just need to buy 40 new power cables, but that sounds not so fun...appreciate the help with all this world connector stuff.
Attached Thumbnails
need power conditioner-furman-pl-8.jpg  
Old 12th May 2011
  #12
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waveform:blue's Avatar
snake oil

From an engineering standpoint...power conditioners are nearly always a waste of money. I can understand using one when running off of a generator. Just maybe it would help at a gig where the amps are taking all the juice - and there's only one cord supplying it all. I've also seen them used where the power grid isn't the greatest...Indonesia, for example.

However, most modern mains systems are pretty good these days. Any fluctuations in line voltage you are likely to see have already been engineered into you gear. Older gear will run continuously at +/-10% of the rated line voltage without a hiccup. Many newer units have "universal" supplies that will run from 90 to 250 Volts. There is no way that your mains voltage is going to fluctuate that much.

Why is it that electronic musical gear is so much more susceptible to voltage fluctuations than other electronics in the house ? Trick question...they're not. Yet Furman et-al would like you to believe that they are.

Years ago, my best friend was having trouble with his keyboard. It would crash and reset from time to time. He bought a conditioner and Voila...nothing changed. His outlets were not grounded. Rolling his desk chair around on carpet generating a static charge...he touched he keyboard...CRASH.

For most of us, the only benefit a power conditioner offers is the surge protection often built into such units. Do yourself a favour...find a way to ground your system. That will offer your gear...and YOU...greater protection than a conditioner can.

Get yourself a decent surge protector, as well. It will help if lightning hits a pole down the street. Don't expect protection from a direct hit, though. A lightning bolt that has travelled a couple of miles through open air is just going to laugh at a few inches of protection from either a supressor or a conditioner.

Let the flames begin

~:blue
Old 13th May 2011
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
Bending_Bus's Avatar
 

I certainly understand that, and that has been discussed here many times before. However in my case I have $100K USD in gear and I just want to switch on the shop with a few buttons in a tidy rack mount package in the rear of my Sterling desk and get to work each day (Monster2500 has played that role here in the USA but is useless internationally). Also when working internationally the local power isn't necessarily going to be like the power in suburban USA, and if there is even a 1% chance the surge protector takes the hit instead of my LA2A, awesome.

Now if Furman would just email me back and tell me what connector/cable is needed to plug into these 220v strips...ah the joys of world power.
Old 13th May 2011
  #14
Lives for gear
need power conditioner

US electrical code does not allow for different voltages to be run through the same connector. In fact different amperage connectors have to be physically incompatible. The exception being the hybrid 15/20A 110 Edison outlets. Although there is a version of 20A outlet that requires a special mating connector with the horizontal neutral making it incompatible with typical 15A Edison plugs. This is to save the punters from themselves. So there is no way that Furman or anyone else is going to make a box that spits 220 out a standard US Edison socket.
Old 13th May 2011
  #15
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Wow and I thought picking up a couple of new surge protectors was going to be the easiest part of my adventure.

...so I'm back to the question of how to plug 30 into 3 local (type F) outlets. I guess just some crappy plastic 6 outlet power strips.
Old 13th May 2011
  #16
Lives for gear
In the live sound world, half the battle is getting enough juice for everything. So folks get creative. On the ProSoundWeb forum (the most professional live sound forum I've found) the pro's are really reluctant to give advice on electrical issues as they don't want the liability of folks hurting themselves or their gear.

Along those lines, while you could cobble something up that fed 220 into conventional US 15A Edisons, I have to strongly recommend against it. You never know when some helpful person is going to come along and plug something into it that is only a 110VAC device.

For those devices that have IEC inlets, you can get local power cords that plug into your local style outlets. For those things that have hardwired power cords but can still run on 220, rather than trying to create a US 220 outlet, I would cut the ends off and put your local style 220 plugs on. If there is a switch or transformer tap control on the device, tape over it and mark it 220VAC so that anyone else getting hold of it knows.

Then, anything that truly requires 110 will only be plugged into US style outlets from some 220-110 converter. No chance of accidentally connecting them to the wrong voltage.

I recognize that many EU (and as used in many other parts of the world) AC plugs are rather humongous and take up a lot of space in a rack. Another alternative (although it will take some money and time wiring things up) is the Neutrik PowerCon connectors. These are used in pro audio because they are locking and can't vibrate out. They look like SpeakOn connectors with blue collars. You can string a bunch of these in a 1U rack box. Mid Atlantic and others make rack mount panels and boxes pre-punched for this size connector. Best of luck.
Old 13th May 2011
  #17
Gear Maniac
 
Bending_Bus's Avatar
 

Cool, thanks man.
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