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New place, what's with the bass?
Old 13th August 2005
  #1
Here for the gear
 

New place, what's with the bass?

I just moved my home and studio (ughh, no more moving) and just set up my studio, and things sound a little different.

The bass sounds mushy, muddy and slightly boomy, that's my first impression. Everything else sounds great.

I'm using Genelec 1029s, near field monitors, they are set flat -- I tried the bass cut included on the Genelecs, but that only lessened the bass, it didn't necessarily make it cleaner or better.

I've done my best to make sure that there is equal distance between me and each speaker and between the two speakers. I find that a few feet behind me the bass is more prominent, not any more distinct. Then at the back of the room the bass is not heard too well.

Room dimensions are:

14 feet front to back by 12 feet wide, ceiling is sloped, it is 9 feet high at the back, 8 feet high at the front. My speakers are under the lowest part of the ceiling, about a foot from the wall. I've got some foam behind the speakers.

The floor is carpeted, I've got rugs covering about half of the wall space, and the ceiings are bare.

Any suggestions on things I can do to improve my sound?

Thanks,
Angopop
Old 13th August 2005
  #2
Here for the gear
 

It's a small room and none of what you describe surprises.
Carpet on the wall doesn;t do much but damp some of the midrange.
easy DIY step is frame panels of Corning 703 compressed block fiberglass. To get some of the bass under controll you need 3 to 4" thickness with an added 2-4" air space behind them. Beyond this you need to build large-panel resonators to damp the bass out. Gets a little daunting but nothing else is going to make it work much better. I made up some modified frames out of 2" 703 and framing lumber (1 x 3) wrapped them in polyfill quilt batting and screen and fabric and stodd them up in corners and walls. helped some.

Building these things is not DIFFICULT, but they are a decent home workshop project. Ethan Winer figured this out a while back and makes no secret about how to DIY this stuff, but his pre-made panels are NOT much more $$ than what you would pay for parts and lumber AND they;re fire-proofed.

for study, check out the following:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep0.../realtraps.htm

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/...ssTrapsp2.html

http://www.realtraps.com/
Old 13th August 2005
  #3
Gear Head
 

The biggest problem in rooms this size is ending up sitting in a location where the bass is not balanced.

I am the Genelec rep in florida, and have tuned several systems.

The middle of the room is the absolute worst place (standing wave reinforcement and suck out).

the optimum starting point for the mix seat in the 14 ft room is is 5 ft from the rear wall. either of you gentlemen can pm me about setting the dip switches on the Genelecs, and keep in mind that the bass tilt is the most impotrant control for cleaning up low to mid bass and unmasking the mid range.

Mike Chafee
Old 13th August 2005
  #4
Gear Nut
 

I have the same problems you describe with a similarly shaped small room. I also have bad stereo imaging and a few other problems but bass is the the main problem.

I moved my dynaudios from a room twice the size with lots of damping (a large bed, huge oak wardrobe and chest of drawers filled with clothes, thick carpet, thick curtains, non-rectangular shape. Music sounded so crisp, even and clear there.

The new room is bare and small and it sounds like poo. Sometimes it's like the speakers are complete crap and other times I think there's oil in my ears. But it's just the room.

Having read some of Ethan Winer's articles (http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html)
I think that some cheap options are:

First try moving the monitors and listening position around and find the least nasty spot. Putting the speakers at the narrow wall of the room facing down the length seems to be a good starting point.

Get some 4'' thick Owens Corning 705 FSK and 703 sheets. Install them covered with fabric across each of the rooms 4 vertical corners. Do the same where the walls meet the roof. You could also buy a large sealed bail or two of fluffy fibreglass and install them under the work desks.

Unfortunately, it won't solve problems below 100Hz (kick drum frequences!). For this you could experiment with the listening position to find a spot that is least uneven from 70-100Hz. If there's a particulary troublesome frequency band in the range 70-100Hz maybe you could build a hermholtz resonator?

If your happy with the improvement but want more you could then plan to install 4 or 8 panel traps. You could either save up and buy or build them yourself. It might take a week to build them all though so the cost of buying seems fair.

Installing cheap diffusors in front of, to the side of and behind the listening position is also planned. You could do all this over a weekend.
Old 13th August 2005
  #5
Sen
Gear Addict
 
Sen's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by angopop
My speakers are under the lowest part of the ceiling, about a foot from the wall. I've got some foam behind the speakers.
hi,
try pushing the monitors all the way back against the wall.Further explained in these papers:
http://www.genelec.com/support/faq/f...ype=Acoustical


Quote:
djui:
My question is, how do I go about finding where to put bass traps and those kinda things? What's the best way to find out where I need to place acoustical treatments?
the areas that have the most standing waves build-up are the corners.All of them! horizontally and vertically (b/ween walls, walls and ceilings, walls and floors.)
get some rockwool/glasswool and stick as much as practical in as many corners as you can

Eventhough the dip switches can help a bit, it's always the best to tune your room not your monitors.
If soffit mounted, monitors will usually pump out more bass energy..then dip switches can be used to compensate for that.
Old 13th August 2005
  #6
Old 13th August 2005
  #7
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

djui,

> When sitting in the mix position I can't hear the really deep bass at all, and it's sometimes hard to tell if things are muddy. <

This is very common. Besides the horribly skewed low end response, I'm sure you also have severe ringing at very low frequencies which further makes a muddy mess. You can't hear this by clapping your hands, but you can be sure it's there.

> how do I go about finding where to put bass traps and those kinda things? <

Follow the link to my Acoustics FAQ posted above. There's a lot of additional info at my company's site, linked under my name below. Click Acoustics Info at the top of any page, then Acoustics Articles.

--Ethan
Old 18th August 2005
  #8
Here for the gear
 

Well, I'm going for the 2x4 MiniTraps, and we'll see, errr, hear what happens....
Old 18th August 2005
  #9
Gear Nut
 

in addition to Ethan's site, have a look at http://forum.studiotips.com, also www.johnlsayers.com for a bunch of good DIY info.
Old 18th August 2005
  #10
Lives for gear
 
BradM's Avatar
Real Traps Mondo Traps

Go for the Mondo Traps--you won't regret it! I've totally been a DIY kind of guy when it's come to acoustics. I've personally built every bass trap and broadband absorber in my entire studio. I've read all of Ethan Winer's articles. I sleep with the Master Handbook of Acoustics underneath my pillow at night. I eat Owens-Corning 703 for breakfast. All the things I've made have had varying degrees of success in my control room to get the low end straightened out. However, after years of struggling, designing, constructing, I finally decided to take the plunge on two Mondo Traps after reading a lot of good reviews from users here and on other sites. I have to say that in one fell swoop I was able make more of a dent in the control of low end frequencies in my CR than I have with everything else I've done over the last 3 years. It seriously has got to be one of the most cost effective purchases I've made for my studio ever. I've noticed since installing the Mondo Traps that I'm getting much better tones up front and my mixes are going together with much less fuss and EQ. I can actually hear the pitch of toms and bass guitar in my room for once. At some point in the future I'll probably buy some more of these for my live room.

Good luck!
Brad
Old 19th August 2005
  #11
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Thumbs up

Brad,

Wow, thanks, can I quote you?

--Ethan
Old 19th August 2005
  #12
Lives for gear
 
BradM's Avatar
Of course you can!

Brad
www.LittleRedWagonStudios.com
Old 19th August 2005
  #13


You can even out the low frequency response by using multiple subwoofers placed in the right spots.

Corner traps are easier - especially if you don't have some test gear.

see:
http://www.harman.com/wp/index.jsp?articleId=1003.0



-tINY

Old 25th March 2006
  #14
Lives for gear
 
kurt's Avatar
Tube Traps?

Hi guys.
I have a bunch of those. Can I use them as some form of “Tube Traps”? What will they give me & how should I adopt them?

Thanx, /kurt.
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New place, what's with the bass?-image.jpg   New place, what's with the bass?-image-1-.jpg  
Old 26th March 2006
  #15
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

Kurt,

> What will they give me & how should I adopt them? <

Maybe you could sell them on eBay and use the money to buy some rigid fiberglass. heh

--Ethan
Old 26th March 2006
  #16
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kurt's Avatar
Ha ha, very funny

I will not repeat my question but are they really of no use in a DIY situation?heh
Old 27th March 2006
  #17
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

Right, no use at all.

I'll put it back at you: Why would you think they might be useful?
Old 27th March 2006
  #18
Lives for gear
 
kurt's Avatar
Because they are genuine "Real Tubes". They cost me nothing & once I have seen somebody using them in a studio. Don’t know if they worked though.
Old 27th March 2006
  #19
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurt
Hi guys.
I have a bunch of those. Can I use them as some form of “Tube Traps”? What will they give me & how should I adopt them?

Thanx, /kurt.
Sure they will work great.. Cut them to 4" and put them behind rigid fiberglass traps to get them off the wall!!! heh

Glenn
Old 28th March 2006
  #20
Lives for gear
 
kurt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by myfipie
Sure they will work great.. Cut them to 4" and put them behind rigid fiberglass traps to get them off the wall!!! heh
Glenn
Well that was exactly my idea. (Putting them behind existing corner traps).
Beside 4”..
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