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opinions on my gear list
Old 11th August 2005
  #1
Gear Head
 
xtranscendedx's Avatar
 

Question opinions on my gear list

Going to be recording bands mainly rock/metal bands.heres the gear list.

2xsm57
senne e609
audix d6
senne e604
mxl 2001
mxl e603
mxl2x990
mxl2x991
pop filter
assorted mic stands
d.i.y. mic cables
20"imac or custom built pc
presonus firepod
krk v6 (pair)
d.i.y. monitor stands
behringer 8ch headphone amp
assorted playback headphones.
cubase or sonar4 producer (depending on computer)
waves diamond pack plug ins.

Total cost is goin be around $5000 give or take.

opinions on this list?? add or subtract anything? i already own the mxl mics and the waves plug in pack.the room i will be recording is goin to be a 20x20 room which i will track in and mix in.I plan on getting some bass traps and foam for the walls.
Old 11th August 2005
  #2
Gear Maniac
 
Dragonfly's Avatar
 

I'd consider downgrading the Diamond bundle to gold or platinum, take that extra grand (or more) and put it towards a nice large diaphragm condenser. All the highend plugs in the world won't fix an inadequate signal going in. The Diamond upgrade from Platinum includes Restoration, Transformation, and Mastering plugs and I don't think you'll be using much of those for rock/metal bands, at least not for the majority of your work.

Some mic suggestions I could make would be a Soundelux U195, a BLUE Mouse, a Neumann TLM193, a Pearlman TM1 (tube), and those are pretty much in the $1000-$1500 range.

Mic pre: Look into a decent single or dual channel piece, possibly a couple of API 512c's (single channel units) or a Focusrite ISA 428 (4 channel), but those are just off the top of my head.

Ram: whatever you get, stock up on the Ram. I have 8 gigs in my G5. I remember when I operated on a Powerbook with 756 mb, good god that sucked! I recommend getting 2 gigs so you don't have any problems right off the bat.

Sounds like you have a decemt sized room. Look into room treatment for your live room and your control room; ie: auralex foam, bass traps, diffusers, these will dramatically improve your sonic space.


A reputable engineer/producer once told me once that there were four main parts to the sound of a good recording. The musician, the room, the gear, and the engineer.
Old 11th August 2005
  #3


I'd ditch the 20x20 room. That's the worst thing on your list.



-tINY

Old 11th August 2005
  #4
Gear Head
 
xtranscendedx's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tINY


I'd ditch the 20x20 room. That's the worst thing on your list.



-tINY

why?? and i can't
Old 11th August 2005
  #5
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Screw the presonus. At least by the RME fireface.

And some decsent mics

I would:

RME Fireface 1400 has 4 pres,--interface, or PCI CARD AND MULTIFACE
Soundelux u195 1000--vocals and room
senn421 350--kick, vocals
4 sm57 500---drums, guitars, vocals
Cubase sx3 600
2 sm81's 500--over haeds, acoustic guitars
A nice 4 channel pre API 3124 2300---Kick, snare and overhaeads, vocals acoustic guitars----use the fireface for toms and such.
Get the UAD1 instead of the WAVES just my opinion????
Get good cables mogami quad. Go to redco.com they will make them for a fraction of the price.
Bass traps and soft walls

If you buy all of that junk you listed you will be SORRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Trust me
Old 11th August 2005
  #6
Gear Head
 
xtranscendedx's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedcrop
Screw the presonus. At least by the RME fireface.

And some decsent mics

I would:

RME Fireface 1400 has 4 pres,--interface, or PCI CARD AND MULTIFACE
Soundelux u195 1000--vocals and room
senn421 350--kick, vocals
4 sm57 500---drums, guitars, vocals
Cubase sx3 600
2 sm81's 500--over haeds, acoustic guitars
A nice 4 channel pre API 3124 2300---Kick, snare and overhaeads, vocals acoustic guitars----use the fireface for toms and such.
Get the UAD1 instead of the WAVES just my opinion????
Get good cables mogami quad. Go to redco.com they will make them for a fraction of the price.
Bass traps and soft walls

If you buy all of that junk you listed you will be SORRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Trust me
ok everything you pu tis almost 6 grand and that leaves no money for the computer.and i already own the plug ins.Do you people even read the orginal post?
Old 11th August 2005
  #7


With equal dimensions for the width and length of the room, anything but close micing is likely to be a nightmare. Have you tried a stereo pair or drum overheads in that room yet?

I'd budget for some acoustic treatments including building out a pair of walls maybe 1 1/2 feet each and some bass traps.



-tINY

Old 11th August 2005
  #8


And, to start with, stay away from the stuff that doesn't belong on Low End Theory Like:

- API pre amps
- $1000 microphones
- More computer than you need

The budget pres in a unit like the Fireface or the MotU 896HD or the Makie Onyx are 85% as good for 35% of the cost.

You can cover a lot of ground with AT40xx mics for vocals at a better price. Or, find a second hand AKG414 or RE20.

If you strip down the programs (no web-surfing, games, extras like PDF readers) and stay off-line with it, your recording computer doesn't need that much horsepower. What you will notice is that post-processing tracks may take a little longer. If you can live without a lot of real-time processing, your computer can be pretty humble and work just fine for you.



-tINY

Old 11th August 2005
  #9
Gear Addict
 
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I guess then a 20x20 room would be very adequate for the kind of application that we are discussing here.

I can't figure it out I get kicked out of the hi end forum cause I don't belong and now my comments are not adequate for the low end forum. I just don't know where I belong. Maybe a no rules forum.
Old 11th August 2005
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
Dragonfly's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tINY


And, to start with, stay away from the stuff that doesn't belong on Low End Theory Like:

- API pre amps
- $1000 microphones
- More computer than you need

If the guy is quoting a Diamond bundle, I assume he has money to put up in the areas he needs it in. He does not need super pricey plugs, but the mics need help. Personally I think that is money well spent in, upgrading where it is needed. You're extremely rude to circumvent my advice in the crass manner that you did.

And a $1000 dollar mic is not low end? I'd still consider it in the category

Dante
Old 11th August 2005
  #11
Gear Nut
 

17" imac 2ghz 2gb ram - $1900.00 - I'm partial to Apple. Whatever you get, get some Ram in it!

Digi 002 (with control surface & Pro Tools software) - $1900.00 - This is an easy to use turn-key type setup.

External Firewire Hard Drive - $150.00 - You'll need this to record the audio to.

Shure SM7B $300.00 - Not my fav mic, but it works well for rock vocals and can be used for kick drum.

Shure SM57 (x2) $160.00 - Again, not my fav, but you can use it on anything i.e. snare, toms, amps, etc.

Oktava MC012 (x2) $200.00 - These are a good "starting point" mic. Use these for overheads, acoustic instruments.

Event 20/20BAS $500.00 (maybe you can get a used pair for this price?) - You may want 8 inch woofers if you're mixing rock.

I've already blown the budget and we still have to get cables (whoever mentioned Redco is a smart man!) and some room treatment.

Ah well.....I guess my main point out of this would be to ditch the Marshall mics, maybe get fewer mics that are more versatile and better suited for what you're recording.

Stick with this post. You will get some good suggestions. This is a great website!
Old 12th August 2005
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Screws's Avatar
 

Some stuff I have that's not on your list, but I find indispensible for rock and metal bands:

Mics
Oktava MK012 (2) for acoustic guitars and overhead drums, but I suppose your MXL 991's will work for that
Marshall MXL V67 - great on male vocals for the money, very different than your 990's and well worth the $99 you'll pay

Outboard
1272 type preamps - ok these are not so low end, but I can't conceive trying to mic a guitar amp without them anymore. Firepod is decent generic preamps, but electric guitars need some Neve. At least a Vintech 1272

here's one on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintech-Audio-Du...QQcmdZViewItem

Other
Extreme Isolation Headphones - bands love 'em and seem to play better because they hear everything better - including themselves
Old 12th August 2005
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfly
If the guy is quoting a Diamond bundle, I assume he has money to put up in the areas he needs it in. He does not need super pricey plugs, but the mics need help. Personally I think that is money well spent in, upgrading where it is needed. You're extremely rude to circumvent my advice in the crass manner that you did.

And a $1000 dollar mic is not low end? I'd still consider it in the category

Dante


I didn't mean to offend you. I am simply offering advice appropriate to the forum. If he was asking on another section, I would answer differently.

He sounds like he's not that experienced and, in that case, he's probably better off with more utilitarian mics with solid performance. Then he can do other things with the $500 that will make a big difference - like treating the room.

And you are wrong - $1000 is not a low end mic when you can get almost as good a recording with a $300-500 mic (and some damn decent ones with a $150 mic if you know what you are doing).




-tINY

Old 12th August 2005
  #14
Gear Maniac
 
Dragonfly's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tINY


I didn't mean to offend you. I am simply offering advice appropriate to the forum. If he was asking on another section, I would answer differently.

He sounds like he's not that experienced and, in that case, he's probably better off with more utilitarian mics with solid performance. Then he can do other things with the $500 that will make a big difference - like treating the room.

And you are wrong - $1000 is not a low end mic when you can get almost as good a recording with a $300-500 mic (and some damn decent ones with a $150 mic if you know what you are doing).

-tINY

There are some decent mics out there for that price range, I've just found in my experience that with every one of them I found myself outgrowing that technology and neededing to expand, therefore spending more money. I say if there money is there, upgrade now and save later. Just one school of thought I guess.

That being said there is always that diamond in the rough mic that sounds great at a 10th of the price, it just needs to suit the purpose. Smoothe Operator was recorded with a 57 in the control room, and much of the vocals on Morning View were done with an SM7, but it is definitely in how you use it.

I wouldn't a 3-500 price bracket is of comparible quality as a $1k mic though, there are definitely advantages in that price point.


Dante
Old 12th August 2005
  #15
Gear Head
 
xtranscendedx's Avatar
 

well heres the updated list for the gear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtranscendedx
Going to be recording bands mainly rock/metal bands.heres the gear list.

2xsm57
senne e609
audix d6
senne e604
mxl 2001 already own
mxl e603 already own
mxl2x990 already own
mxl2x991 already own
pop filter already own
assorted mic stands
d.i.y. mic cables
20"imac or custom built pc
presonus firepod
krk v6 (pair) plus krk sub
d.i.y. monitor stands
behringer 8ch headphone amp
assorted playback headphones.
cubase or sonar4 producer (depending on computer) already own both
waves diamond pack plug ins. already OWN
behirnger control surface

Total cost is goin be around $5000 give or take.

opinions on this list?? add or subtract anything? i already own the mxl mics and the waves plug in pack.the room i will be recording in is goin to be a 20x20 room which i will track in and mix in.I plan on getting some bass traps and foam for the walls.
Old 12th August 2005
  #16
Lives for gear
 

xtrans....
to save me retyping if you search my backposts ive made a number of computer recommendations/configs as my day job for years was computer engineering. as well as mics/preamps etc that are affordable from my own experience owning studio equipment. particularly i would give amd 64 processor based pc's carefull consideration. for mics rarely have i tried an electrovoice re mic that disappoints.
and the old shack pzm's rarely disappoint in xy over a drum kit unless the room isnt treated. if you want one good mic pre...i recommend you try a rane ms1b.
an affordable mixer to demo is a yamaha mg .peace.
Old 12th August 2005
  #17
Gear Addict
 
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All I have to offer is cheap mics sound bad and even worse through the firepod. I strongly recommend shopping around for another interface.
Old 12th August 2005
  #18
Gear Head
 
xtranscendedx's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedcrop
All I have to offer is cheap mics sound bad and even worse through the firepod. I strongly recommend shopping around for another interface.
There is no other interface in that price range that will give me enough pre's
Old 13th August 2005
  #19


If you have a mixer with 4 groups, maybe you could do scratch tracks to 4 channels and replace tracks as needed.

Or, if you have to record the band all at once, to separate tracks, maybe you should be looking for an all in one and ditch the computer.

Or just get the Presonus to start with and upgrade later if needs be.

But, there are several firewire interfaces in the $800-1200 range with 8 pre-amps that are quite a step up.



-tINY

Old 13th August 2005
  #20
Gear Head
 
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But, there are several firewire interfaces in the $800-1200 range with 8 pre-amps that are quite a step up.



-tINY

[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]


such as?? i already looked at the motu 896

what else?
Old 14th August 2005
  #21


Mackie Onyx 800

Looks like a lot of the others cheap-out and only give you 4 (or 2) pre-amps with 8 analog inputs....

I guess that narrows things a bit.




-tINY

Old 15th August 2005
  #22
Gear Addict
 
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What ever you get you should make sure that there is some expandability without having to scrap the interface.

You could for instance go with RME PCI/MULTIFACE for 850. and go with this
http://cgi.ebay.com/Presonus-M80-mic...QQcmdZViewItem

And at about 1,500$ be in a much better position than any combo firewire product in my opinion ---that I have seen.

The pres are real clean but you can add some flavor later when you get the funds with no problems. And you will not have to get rid of the interface when you want to expand to additional mic pres.

You would also be able to expand to get more inputs later if you wanted to. You could pick up a Rosetta and another set of pres and have 16 ins and outs without changing your interface, meanwhile clocking the RME with the rosetta to get improved performance on those convertors.

Not saying you should spend more money just if the time is right youd be able to expand.
Old 15th August 2005
  #23
Gear Head
 
xtranscendedx's Avatar
 

Why not just get the firepod(s) and then later upgrade to say a vintech 1272 or a isa 428? then stick the firepods in the "live" recording rig.What do you think?
Old 16th August 2005
  #24
Gear Addict
 
tedcrop's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtranscendedx
Why not just get the firepod(s) and then later upgrade to say a vintech 1272 or a isa 428? then stick the firepods in the "live" recording rig.What do you think?

You want 16 in? You said firepods? thats 1200 for 16 ins Mic Pres, interface and convertors. wow sounds ike a great deal. But You get what you pay for.

Your plan sounds like a good one as you would have to royally cough up to royally step up from that. I would never personally never by the firepod. But in the end its either that or the MOTU and then the Fireface which would probably be my choice.
Old 16th August 2005
  #25
Gear Head
 
xtranscendedx's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedcrop
You want 16 in? You said firepods? thats 1200 for 16 ins Mic Pres, interface and convertors. wow sounds ike a great deal. But You get what you pay for.

Your plan sounds like a good one as you would have to royally cough up to royally step up from that. I would never personally never by the firepod. But in the end its either that or the MOTU and then the Fireface which would probably be my choice.
i actually have decided against the firepods and going with the mackie onyx 1640 and later get a apogee d/a converter
Old 16th August 2005
  #26
Gear Addict
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtranscendedx
i actually have decided against the firepods and going with the mackie onyx 1640 and later get a apogee d/a converter
The apogees are nice I own them.
Old 17th August 2005
  #27
Gear Head
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedcrop
The apogees are nice I own them.
any comments on the mackie?
Old 24th January 2006
  #28
Gear Head
 
Zoe-Ruth's Avatar
 

i use the mackie and i like it a lot. you also might want to look into a Great River Pre. it's around $1300 though. i know what it's like to be on a budget.
just remember that you don't have to buy outrageously expensive gear for your recordings to sound good. i know that the first 5 or six songs i recorded were made using nothing but:
g4 powerbook
cubase 2.5
tascam us-122 souncard
eureka mic pre
and a rode NT1 mic
all together, this set up was a lot less expensive than what you have to spend.
waves makes some really great stuff, so i think even if your end result after your initial recording isn't optimal, you'll pretty much be okay in the end once you play with it a bit.
good luck!
Zoe
p.s.
oh and by the way, the Great River pre is awsome! VERY VERY clean. the Pearlman TM1 mic is also OUTSTANDING for a multitude of applications!
Old 24th January 2006
  #29
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

I would get the Onyx 1640 without question, it is beyond just a "useable" board...Mackie has hit a home run with them preamp wise (tight, focused sound), EQ wise (the high end shelf actually sounds good! unlike other past designs...the mid bands overlap and widen out some the harder you push them...), headroom wise and features...and it's built like an armoured truck (tanks are highly over-rated ).

I agree with your initial idea of KRK V6 monitors, they are a standout in the under $1k category and have a balanced sound for the most part, with good midrange definition.

War
Old 24th January 2006
  #30
Gear Head
 
Zoe-Ruth's Avatar
 

Exclamation

oh yeah, the other thing is:
i REALLY REALLY REALLY wouldn't use KRK v6's on what you're doing if i were you. they tend to be very mid rangey/bassey and are very colored. i've had really bad luck with them doing rock stuff. something more neutral and more open sounding tends to be better for me. maybe dynaudio or event.
of course it's just my opinion. you have to get whatever sounds good to YOU.
good luck!
Zoe
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