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What Behringer gear does not suck ?!
Old 22nd October 2006
  #151
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ampsarus's Avatar
Everyone who has used or heard a DCX2496 raise your hand.
For that matter, anyone who has heard or used a Driverack 4800 raise your hand.

Anyone?

The build and feature set of the DR 4800 is no contest, no suprise. But in blind ABX testing, the SQ are indestinguishable. Really, they are. Me, my mom, GF, friends, pro and non-audio aquaintances cant tell the difference. Actually, mom got mad and asked me what the hell I wanted, but she couldn't tell the difference. They are both 24/96 engines running SHARK DSP's, indestinguishable in SQ...But you had too look at the case and see what it was. lol

Am I defending Bherry or deriding ego and arrogance?
Old 22nd October 2006
  #152
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ampsarus's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by aussie_techie View Post
dont you mean stolen QSCs design just like they steal everyone elses design
Wow, no, QSC is the OEM for the EP1500/EP2500
For those that don't understand, Bherry PAYS QSC to make the amps for them.
Actually, the factory in China makes them both, and they are identical inside as well.

I think that speaks more for QSC's RMX series than it does for Bherry.

People, please. Why doesn't everyone hate Sony so much? They are the true evil!

Old 22nd October 2006
  #153
Lives for gear
 

*raises hand*
who cares about sample rate or processor used, there is alot more to a device. the beh isnt even close to a drive rack 260 let alone a 4800. try it out out on a real system, pushing the system to its limits and the difference shows up very quickly.
but with the incredibly cheep price it does the job alot better than any cheep analogue crossover, certainly gives a system more headroom and added clarity.
Old 22nd October 2006
  #154
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ampsarus View Post
Wow, no, QSC is the OEM for the EP1500/EP2500
For those that don't understand, Bherry PAYS QSC to make the amps for them.
Actually, the factory in China makes them both, and they are identical inside as well.

I think that speaks more for QSC's RMX series than it does for Bherry.

People, please. Why doesn't everyone hate Sony so much? They are the true evil!


that’s kind of scary, defiantly says more about QSC though and explains why some of the QSC models always end of on the bench.

really if you want a QSC you buy a PLX, or just bite the bullet and buy real amps.

oh and the only part of sony i like is the oxford R&D division. if only sony would give the them the cash to devolop something else revolutionary. oh well guess its another companies turn.
Old 22nd October 2006
  #155
Gear Nut
 
ampsarus's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by aussie_techie View Post
*raises hand*
who cares about sample rate or processor used, there is alot more to a device. the beh isnt even close to a drive rack 260 let alone a 4800. try it out out on a real system, pushing the system to its limits and the difference shows up very quickly.
but with the incredibly cheep price it does the job alot better than any cheep analogue crossover, certainly gives a system more headroom and added clarity.
AT- What don't you like about the DCX's sound? What do you hear in a 260 that is missing (or there but shouldn't be!) in the DCX? Was all of the upstream gear +4 analog (not -10) or AES? Please be as specific as you can, and FWIW I really appreciate the feedback, TIA.

Also FWIW I don't use nor do I covet anything made by QSC- but I do rather like my modded Crown SR1's and I also love (ducks flame) my original Rane MA6! works great & sounds great on my 16 ohm compression drivers!

Cheers
Old 22nd October 2006
  #156
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ampsarus View Post
AT- What don't you like about the DCX's sound? What do you hear in a 260 that is missing (or there but shouldn't be!) in the DCX? Was all of the upstream gear +4 analog (not -10) or AES? Please be as specific as you can, and FWIW I really appreciate the feedback, TIA.
to start with the DCX is realy only a digital crossover while a drive rack is a compleate master processor with eq a compressor/limiter, feedback supressor and a few other options in it. so you realy arnt comparing even systems.
having a digital eq means you can almost eq the room flat and you dont have to have the extream cuts/boots on an alalogue EQ which also means less phase distorion. analogue eq basicly just takes care of tuning to your mics and fine tuning to ge the most out of a system. you can always set your analogue eq back flat and know you will still have a good starting eq. great in an install when others come in and change your eq.
digital comp means your analogue comp doesnt need to work so hard 2 stage comp means less artifacts. i know some people that mix into a 260 without an analogue master comp. surprised me but it works for them and these no risk for blowing a system.

overall a drive rack 260 just sounds better and makes life easier as you dont have to spend so much time tuning your system before every show, you know peaks will be clamped unliked with some processors that dont clap very fast tranisents. AFS doesnt complealty stop potential feedback issues but it makes life easier.

all analogue desks and all other processing is analogue main outputs are always referenced +4dbu but usualy driven much harder, a 260 can take upto +26 from memory so you never clip the converters even when you push it and even at lower levels you dont loose clarity as you do with cheaper converters.
Old 22nd October 2006
  #157
Gear Nut
 
ampsarus's Avatar
Beep beep **Response Pending** Ctl/Alt/Del lol

I'm probably going to go all over the place with this one, so please bare with me.

AT- Thanks for your reply. You bring up a lot of (issues?) here and I appreciate your comments.

"overall a drive rack 260 just sounds better and makes life easier"

That really doesn't speak to the difference in sound, but of convienence. If you could be just a bit more descriptive of
how overall it sounds better...


"i know some people that mix into a 260 without an analogue master comp. surprised me but it works for them and these no risk for blowing a system."

Yep thats how I use the DCX's- sort of. I use a comp...Source, DCX's, (8ch) Compressors, amps. It's all you need.

I should have set the scene- I'm running ol' JBL 4343 4-ways, so a couple of 1X4 X/O's is the least I can use, 2X8 is ideal, 4X8 is room to grow!

DCX's are 3x6 but I use each as a 1x4. DCX has... (have you really seen the feature set?)

Input A/B/C can be mixed into busses in .1 dB increments which in turn can be mixed in .1 dB increments on out 1-6...DCX has PEQ on all ins/outs, limiter, dynamic EQ, delay, polarity/phase adjust...of course EQ is limited by free DSP%, but when you run (2) of them...plenty of EQ going 1x4! The whole system CAN be time aligned...It wants to be. No compressor though.

ASFAIK the only thing you mentioned that is missing is a compressor. Me, I'm using "an" 8ch compressor between the X/O's and 8 amps. People call it PreBogus, I think it rocks hard! Great musical comp for playback.
(I step hard on the 2420 drivers, light on the 2231A's and everything else flys pretty much free. The Gates are useless on it IMO, (ACP88) and I don't need them anyway.
I used a 4800 in trial for a couple weeks, and the SQ let me say again the SQ could not beat the DCX's when heard from mom/me/entusiasts/whocares. Mom/GF was funny. "Can we go now?!?"

I dunno about overload, but I have a silly home pre (Classe' CP-60) that delivers up to 42V on it's XLR's, and it out drives all +4 mixers I have used...Sounds better than a Midas Venice (monitoring) but it should. Anyway, it drives the DCX's well and I have never heard a clip, chirp, anything. Infact, as it should, the more you fill the A/D with signal, the better it sounds. Cool to have the Vol controls on the Comp and amps- I attenuate them and drive the pejezus out of the DCX input to get as close to 0 as possible.

It's pretty cool, classic JBL Alnico compression drivers with DSP X/O's driving 8ch's of compression driving 8 amps. My dream control.

I don't wan't to call you a [email protected], but It really doen't sound like you have used one!!!
I think like most everyone else here, you have prejudged the product, and have made conclusions without real DATA!

As always, any slutz pleez feel free to call me for....anything.
818-968-1328
If you are in LA, come on over and hear Bherry X/O's break your expectations.
(NO! NEVER! Must...keep...predetermination...intact...)
I might answer, if I don't I'm sleeping, in school, or in between.

Rock on AT, thanks again for your reply
Old 22nd October 2006
  #158
Gear Nut
 

The DDX 3216 digital mixing desk is amazing value and works fine for live sound. Better than the earlier 01V Yamahas. And not a COPY of anything in particular.

The DEQ2496 is a clever box for metering, RTA and even EQ. Wouldn't use the dynamics in it though. The DA is fine though.

The ECM8000 does its job fine but I wouldn't record with it.

Don't like the Behringer gates and comps I have owned though.

Andrew
Old 22nd October 2006
  #159
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ampsarus's Avatar
Andrew B

I'm Andrew B

Are you 6' 4" and ugly as a mile of dirt road? If so, you're my twin.
Old 23rd October 2006
  #160
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Sirocco's Avatar
 

i heard their convolution based reverb ROCKS
Old 25th October 2006
  #161
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i used both the DCX and a drive rack 260 the other night at different venues one after the other, im certainly not pre judging the unit at all. The venue that has the 260 had the DCX until a couple of months ago. in these setting you judge the system as a whole its not feasible to try and do an a/b test of one particular thing. I can say for certain that since the drive rack went in the system is sounding better and everyone else who mixs on that system has said the same thing. This system is mainly Shure mics, DBX comps and GEQs GL4 Mayer drivers, not super high end but certainly not a cheepo system

Ive been quite impressed with the DCX for what it is, its sounding much better than the beh analogue crossover that was in the system and the limiters make it harder for people to blow anything (does still happen). all im saying is its not the same as a drive rack, but at the price what do you expect.

I had forgotten the DCX had all the features it does so apologies for that. But there is still differences. as i said before things the main things are the fully featured EQ and dynamics.
the EQ on a drive rack with also includes GEQ and PEQ and the RTA and auto EQ, of course its not perfect with some small adjustments you can tune a system relatively flat which you cant do with a DCX the PEQ available on a DCX isn’t the same. that level of EQ makes a big difference and if you try to do that amount of cut/boost with an analogue EQ you get also of artefacts not to mention the issues of having to manually re tune the EQ.
dynamic eq or AFS is far from perfect on a drive rack but it seems works a lot better than on a DCX. For the most part you should know by ear what to pull out so its not such a biggy.

I don’t really see how you can go without a master comp with no dynamics sections on a DCX either but whatever work you I like to be able to compress the entire signal. a drive rack will give nice over easy compression long before the limiter kicks in.

anyway my experiences are with real world systems and what is making them sound better not lab a/b tests. The environments is very uncontrolled, perhaps not the scientific analysis you are after but it is what puts things to the real test. playing music through a unit for your mum or gf isn’t the same scale.

If the DCX does all you need fine, its just not going to be the same with all systems. anyway this is abit off topic so enough said.
Old 25th October 2006
  #162
Gear Head
 
daback-daboot's Avatar
 

I just bought their ct100 cable tester today. I'm pretty sure its doing about the best any can on that. "yep, this cable works"
Old 27th October 2006
  #163
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deve's Avatar
 

those small diaphram condensers are cool. b5 I guess. They sound a bit closed and week on top. But with a good preamp they are useble. The price is realy incredible. They come with interchangable cardioid and omni capsules.
Old 27th October 2006
  #164
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ampsarus View Post
People, please. Why doesn't everyone hate Sony so much? They are the true evil!

Wrong forum.

Especially after what happened recently with Lik-Sang...

I don't expect video professionals to bash Sony and their production monitors either, though...

But the non-pro power users. That's where most of the heat is at
Old 29th October 2006
  #165
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Mr. Varaldo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Varaldo View Post
Regarding the MX9000, I understand it probably isn't the best sounding desk out there, but I looked at this review

http://www.tweakheadz.com/review_of_...ger_mx9000.htm

and Rich the Tweak gives it top marks. Just curious to see what you pro-level engineers think - because while I'm aware of Behringer's not always clear "emulative practices" and how it's generally regarded, Tweak seems to have been at it for a long time, and have lots of experience.

Nobody has any comment on this review of the MX9000 though?
Old 30th October 2006
  #166
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kc_designs_tul's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Varaldo View Post
Nobody has any comment on this review of the MX9000 though?
It's not a "bad" desk...but I wouldn't post through it I owned 2 of them piggy backed together....it was a decent setup for a short term fix until the A&H gear arrived. Apparently, the folks who have them either love them or took them out and blew them up, b/c there aren't a whole lot of them out there.
Old 30th October 2006
  #167
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kc_designs_tul's Avatar
 

Talking

I had teh oppourtunity to be in the sales side of the biz b4 getting into the production piece of it. A lot of guys love the headphone amps, DIs, and the CT100. That's about it. Most of the mixers either smoked or just plain quit working. I was fortunate enough to pick up an MX 2004A quite a few years ago when they were new. Paid about 300 for it. This was b4 they really started going down hill with the mixers. To date (knock on woodlike surface of desk) I haven't had a single issue with it. The faders are still clean..no crackles. Not the most transparent, but works for setting an in ear mix.

It does however get hot enough on the top to fry an egg.....anyone hungry?? heh
Old 30th October 2006
  #168
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pabloman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snatchman View Post
Hey this might be "ok", IF... you could go back and get just the "older" Behringer gear! It definately sounds, performs better than any of the newer gear they make! I wonder what happened to the saying..." IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON"T FIX IT"..!.... heh
Well, in Behringer's case it's: "If it's broke, don't even try to fix it..." Most of their stuff is delivered with a sticker that shows a litterbin with a line over it - special waste... Way special...
Old 2nd November 2006
  #169
Gear Nut
 

Thumbs down Smoking Behringer bass amps

Just to add my 2 cents - my band had a show in a local bar last night. Bass player bought a brand new Behringer bass amp, one of those new 12-inch speaker combos they are selling at Gtr Ctr, because it was cheap and convenient for small, moderately loud gigs where he'd be going direct out of the amp as well anyway, no need for blasting stage volume. Amp was purchased two weeks ago, plugged in last night for it's maiden voyage-- snap crackle pop. Brand new amp, burning smell, the works. Fried during soundcheck.

Before he bought it, I warned him of the notorious Behringer build quality. He said his friend had one of these and never had a problem. Well, he's gonna take it back and get a GK combo. Lucky there was a house bass amp, as we were the only band of the night and the Behringer stamp of quality could have blown the gig.
Old 3rd November 2006
  #170
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xopeth4 View Post
where he'd be going direct out of the amp as well anyway.
with a beh you dont have the choice of taking a direct out of the amp the sound sucks and the only choice is to di befoe the amp.
with an ampeg or GK you can always ensure a fairly good sound from the direct out without to much eq/compression

its not just the bad build quality/quality control but they sound terrible. the only use is an oversized doorstop
Old 3rd November 2006
  #171
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ampsarus View Post
Andrew B

I'm Andrew B

Are you 6' 4" and ugly as a mile of dirt road? If so, you're my twin.
Only 6' 3", and my wife loves me so I must look OK or she must be very generous.


Andrew
Old 3rd November 2006
  #172
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by aussie_techie View Post
with a beh you dont have the choice of taking a direct out of the amp the sound sucks and the only choice is to di befoe the amp.
with an ampeg or GK you can always ensure a fairly good sound from the direct out without to much eq/compression

its not just the bad build quality/quality control but they sound terrible. the only use is an oversized doorstop
To be honest, the direct out from most guitar and bass amps (including GKs, Fenders, Marshalls) sucks compared to a proper DI. I would NEVER use one.

Andrew
Old 3rd November 2006
  #173
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Poplab Studios's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirocco View Post
i heard their convolution based reverb ROCKS
they´ve built a converb?did i missed something?
Old 4th November 2006
  #174
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew B. View Post
To be honest, the direct out from most guitar and bass amps (including GKs, Fenders, Marshalls) sucks compared to a proper DI. I would NEVER use one.

Andrew
in a live situation when you dont have a great eq and compressor to shape it your stuck with beh and ART DIs and dont have any time to even do a proper sound check let alone spend time on the bass something in the rage of a GK, Lab etc is a good starting point. a good ampeg is MUCH better.
theres hardly ever any point to DI or take a direct line from an electric guitar.
Old 4th November 2006
  #175
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lofi's Avatar
 

guys ? which beh headphone amps do you find good ???

i tried several and they all suck to me.. no power and always somehow "hard" and mushy/hissy...

im sniffing for some more headphone amps but ... thinking bout fostex but thats expensive... (oh gotta be 1/2 rack of course )

btw.. i have 2 ecm8000... i use them from time to time (double bass, acoustics, ambient recordings.....)

one failed so i replaced it with a new one...

Old 27th December 2006
  #176
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elektrovolt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poplab Studios View Post
they´ve built a converb?did i missed something?
well, it only has some convolution models built-in.
there are many controls and it actually sounds really good !

much better than those lexicon and TC (the cheaper ones) reverbs.
other effects include delay, phaser, flanger, chorus, phaser and compressor but they aren't any good, except the 'Dimension B' preset (what's in a name)

this is my favorite behringer product.
Old 27th December 2006
  #177
Gear Addict
 
Arsene's Avatar
 

Seriously though -

their new UMX line of midi keybaords are excellent - great feeling keys, knobs and a fader (all assignable), lots of options.. I own the 25 key version - portable too. They keys felt better than comparable M-Audio, Korg and Edirol models.

And the best part: no audio passes through it! So even Behr sometimes makes usable stuff...


Oh and I will probably be fried for this - their Tech 21 rip offs (for example the Vintager GM110) are pretty decent sounding and offer a lot of recording and practice options...

I am looking to get a patchbay by the way. I was looking at Neutrik bays, but I might get a Behr instead... The thing I am worried about is that actual audio will pass through it. Behr bay users, ayone done a A/B?
Old 27th December 2006
  #178
i'm basically a keyboard guy who wanted to capture the sound everybody else in the band was making like i can my synths. i've got the behringer 4channel headphone amp, DI800, DI100 & 2 ADA8000's. they work & for cheap.

i'm sure someday i'll want to upgrade everything in the studio with more expensive toys but for getting myself online & operational for capturing jams @ the home studio they've been awesome. yes the sound quality is a bit thin & the noise floor is a mess but if i didnt do anything until i could afford the optimum piece of gear i'd have never played a note.
Old 27th December 2006
  #179
Behr bay users,

that reminds me i have furman & behringer patch bays.
most of my stuf is routed thru the furman. my behringer is connected to my old fx boxes i dont really use anymore. i tend to look @ that whole section of my rack with distain.
Old 27th December 2006
  #180
Lives for gear
 
Janesaid2me's Avatar
All I use is the Ultra-DI and the Powerplay pro headphone amp...both are nice...work well...have had for a few years...no problems...id recommend both....i also own a b-2 condenser mic....dont use it anymore...used it about 4 years ago...now it collects dust and awaits the day my other condensers all break at once to be called to duty again...hahaha....so probably never....wasnt horrible...but there are better options for the 120 i paid for that.
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