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Getting the "Punchy" Low Kick.......
Old 21st July 2005
  #1
Getting the "Punchy" Low Kick.......

I'm in need of someone telling me how to get the punchy low end kick that many rock bands have. The kind of kick that punches through the music but also doesnt over power it. I use an RE-20 for my bass drum recording that runs through a Roland MMP-2 (i know not the best pre amp but it's cheap and has many presets). I have included an mp3 of a song that i love the bass drum on.

(MODERATOR NOTE - YOU CANNOT UPLOAD SONGS THAT YOUR DONT HAVE PERMISSION FOR tutt ATTACHMENT DELETED - SORRY! )

I would love to get that kind of sound. Would i be better off using a different mic? Like a Shure Beta 52a? Or a AKG a112????
Old 21st July 2005
  #2
However... having HEARD that MP3 before deleting it.. I would suggest an Audix D6 inside + an outside kick mic (your RE-20? Large condencer?) combo - might be the way to go for you... The Audix seemed to me to be THE PERFECT Emo / New Metal inside kick mic when I used it a few months ago... But that was on THAT drum kit on THAT day with THAT drummer..

Good luck..

Who was on that MP3 anyway Lincoln Park? Brand New?
Old 21st July 2005
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

the mentioned audix is a very good choice, i like it,too. an alternative to try is the sennheiser e602.
Old 21st July 2005
  #4
first: tune it the way you want it to sound
second: a drummer with a consistent foot
third: D6


I've used the same chain on a hundred different kick drums, results have been everywhere from spectacular to dfegad . The biggest difference in getting that sound has always been the tuning of the drum.
Have them get it right before you mic it up. Sound replacer should be a last-ditch effort to save a track, not a normal function of recording drums. IMHO
Old 21st July 2005
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Transient Designers work wonders on sampled/synth kicks...I don't see why it won't work on a real recorded one...
Old 21st July 2005
  #6
Gear Maniac
 

Shure SM91 PZM

I use a Shure SM91 PZM for this type of sound, it is an amazing mic for kick drums and bass cabs...anyone else tried it? I think it may be discontinued but I'm not sure...
Old 21st July 2005
  #7
Gear Addict
 
mdbeh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by af_analog
I use a Shure SM91 PZM for this type of sound, it is an amazing mic for kick drums and bass cabs...anyone else tried it? I think it may be discontinued but I'm not sure...
The Beta 91 is the closest current equivalent, I think.

I've never compared the original/Beta side by side, but I've used both, and they sounded pretty similiar as far as I could tell--definitely good for capturing the beater 'click'.
Old 21st July 2005
  #8
Yeah a PZM and a speaker mic will get it. In this case (D6 and speaker) it was overkill in the BOOM zone
http://www.everybodysx.com/kik1.jpg
Old 21st July 2005
  #9


You could try a compressor with a variable attack. It'll let the transient through unmolested and then squash the "boom". Make sure to set the release short enough to allow the thing to reset before the next kick beat (a 1/4 or 1/8 note depending on what the guy is playing).

You can pick up a 3630 for under $100....


-tINY

Old 21st July 2005
  #10
Gear Addict
 
dhughes's Avatar
 

I like Jules suggestion. That is what I use anyway. D6 in the kick towards one side and pointed at the side. Large diaphragm or medium outside - anywhere from a few inches to a couple feet. Wouldn't do that for a jazz set but it works well for a lot of rock, metal, punk...whatever
Old 21st July 2005
  #11
Gear Addict
 
Brandino221's Avatar
 

the type of beater and drum head type have alot to do with it as well. + someone that knows how to tune the heads right. Take all that out and even with a great mic setup it most likely won't sound good. Also to get that kind of sound putting a bunch of pillows may not be the best idea. Like I said, get the sound from the drum and use the mic with the right flavor for the drum.
Good luck my friend.
peace
Old 21st July 2005
  #12
Lives for gear
 
the1Hub's Avatar
 

a lot of things make for a good kick/drum sounds
1st the player has to be good. has to be able to consitantly hit the drum the same.
2nd the tuning has to be right, if the drum dose not sound right in the room how are you going to capture the sound you want? using the right head for the job, the right type of beater. also the resonate head needs to be tuned just as good as the front head. so much of your low end can come off the resonate head if theres a mic out infront of it
3rd phase. double check for any phase cancelation
4th in the mix the balance between the kick and bass gtr is so important. its hard to get a kick to punch through a mix if the bass has buried it. i like to carve a hole out of the kick drum, and then bring the bass up till it feel it. i dont like to do it the other way because if you start carving out holes in the bass for the kick to fit into you can end up killing fundmental frequencies in the bass line...(umm notes that were played on the bass) beyond just eq its important that the bass and kick line up with each other. you can do this by editing one to match the other or you can use a gate with a side chain keyed from the kick so that everytime the kick hits the gate will open and allow the bass out. i like to edit personaly, its more work but the results are often better.
iam sure iam forgetting some but those are the basic things i do to get a good kick sound.

if iam ever in a jam and ive got a bad recorded/played kick here a coulpe of things ive done to "fix it in the mix"

i will either add a sampled kick under the badlly played track to cover up the mistakes
replace the kick track intirely if i have to
use a limiter to balance out a kick that has a lot of miss hits.
use an extreme amount of eq to reshape the sound after the limiter

these will never sound as good as the suggestions at the top.
hope that helps
Old 21st July 2005
  #13
Thanks for all the suggestions. I didn't know you can't post mp3's on just any thread. So i included a link to another server with the same mp3. (This is ok. right?) This band is Saosin. Good friends of mine out of Orange County. They are getting huge so fast! They will be the next big "Taking back sunday" or "The used"....... I have yet to ask them how their producer/engineer got the bass drum sound. I just wanted to see what everyone else had to say about it.

Bury Your Head.Mp3
Old 21st July 2005
  #14
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the1Hub's Avatar
 

they rock. ive had some friend co headline a tour with them last year. great band live. if i remeber correctly the guitar player dose most of the recording/production for them. we talked a little about his gear i dont remeber all of what he had but i remerber protools HD and a couple of decent mics and pre's.
Old 22nd July 2005
  #15
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norman_nomad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrummerGuy09
Thanks for all the suggestions. I didn't know you can't post mp3's on just any thread. So i included a link to another server with the same mp3. (This is ok. right?) This band is Saosin. Good friends of mine out of Orange County. They are getting huge so fast! They will be the next big "Taking back sunday" or "The used"....... I have yet to ask them how their producer/engineer got the bass drum sound. I just wanted to see what everyone else had to say about it.

Bury Your Head.Mp3
Kick and Snare and Toms are sound replaced. Vox are tuned.

If you like this type of kick sound, you'd be happy with the D6.

If you want to reproduce this type of drum production, go buy a good sample CD.
Old 23rd July 2005
  #16
lwr
Gear Addict
 

whats a good sample cd for some kick/snare sounds like this?

can someone reccomend?
Old 24th July 2005
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongWave
whats a good sample cd for some kick/snare sounds like this?

can someone reccomend?
I'd like to hear some suggestions here as well...
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