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Drum over heads AT2020 VS MXL 603
Old 24th February 2009
  #61
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I will throw the Kel HM-1's into the ring for non- hyped condensers. I like the CAD M177's for a brighter OH. Finally the Nady RSM-2 for a darker / thicker OH sound.
Old 24th February 2009
  #62
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KeithMoonwannabe's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
I will through Kel HM-1's into the ring for non- hyped condensers. I like the CAD M177's for a brighter OH. Finally the Nady RSM-2 for a darker / thicker OH sound.
that's a great description....nice to hear from you again how's everything been going?

I wouldn't definitely call the M177 bright. I will try to get on posting some sound samples tonight or tomorrow. They really do a great job capturing my kit. Honestly the spaced pair doesn't need much from the close mics at least in my opinion and that is in my crappy space with not so great drums, just nice cymbals. haha you can tell new drumset (shell pack) is on my to get list.
Old 24th February 2009
  #63
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KeithMoonwannabe's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly View Post
Sure. You'll end up paying more in shipping though. I'll look into what kind of multiple payment deals eBay has - you would buy the mods through eBay by making a first payment, I get paid in full, you get your mics completely modified, then you continue to make the remaining eBay payments. I don't know if eBay is currently doing this, but I've put up customer-specific products on eBay so folks can take advantage of the discounts and multiple-payment plans they offer on occasion.
yeah I know I just figured if I can't swing all the mods at one time I at least get some stuff done.
Old 24th February 2009
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithMoonwannabe View Post
that's a great description....nice to hear from you again how's everything been going?

I wouldn't definitely call the M177 bright. I will try to get on posting some sound samples tonight or tomorrow. They really do a great job capturing my kit. Honestly the spaced pair doesn't need much from the close mics at least in my opinion and that is in my crappy space with not so great drums, just nice cymbals. haha you can tell new drumset (shell pack) is on my to get list.
I just meant brighter than the Kel's
Old 24th February 2009
  #65
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Corran's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithMoonwannabe View Post
I think in a couple months I'm going to buy a pair of the Apex 185 SDC mics.

You get cardioid and omni caps, windscreens, shockmounts, and a nice carrying case for like $110 at Front End Audio. GOOD LUCK GETTING ALL THAT FOR THAT PRICE WITH MXL (EVEN USED). Unless you actually do have good luck, I don't.
I got my (new) 603 pair with omni caps for a little less than $100 shipped heh.

That was the only reason I even got them. It was when musiciansfriend had the SDotD - $30 for each 603 plus $15 on ebay for the omni caps.
Old 24th February 2009
  #66
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KeithMoonwannabe's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corran View Post
I got my (new) 603 pair with omni caps for a little less than $100 shipped heh.

That was the only reason I even got them. It was when musiciansfriend had the SDotD - $30 for each 603 plus $15 on ebay for the omni caps.
oh yeah I remember you telling that story, see when I'm flat broke (like now) all the awesome deals like that are around. When I get money again look out!
Old 24th February 2009
  #67
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Corran's Avatar
 

The funny part was I had just bought my pair of Earthworks QTC-1's for 11x that and my fiancee about exploded when I told her I had, in fact, bought more mics!

Old 24th February 2009
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly View Post
Because Jim William's work in this area is highly respected and he's written extensively about upgrading from the 2SK170.

To quote Jim: "The real reason to swap (from the 2sk170) to the 305 is you will hear more detailed top end performance. These are very low noise as the noise spec is optimized for very high input impedances and the best part is the fets have extremely low leakage or stray capacitance when used at a very high input impedance. (I use them with 10 gig ohm input impedances). 170's stray off top end details due to die leakage. Try it and see, don't believe me!"
Interesting exachange, thanks for the link. I however, came to different conclusions than Jim. IMO, and in my experience, sonically the 2SK170 is much more musical and more mellow, as well as much more 3D than J305 (which BTW, IIRC, is just a regular process50 FET). It would be somewhat lightminded to dissmiss it so easily.
In the end all that matters is the sound, right? I would be willing to A-B the mics under the question (i.e. the same mic, but one with the J305 and another my modified with 2SK170) in either Schoeps (MXL603), or transformer coupled configuration, any day. Please let me know if you are up to it.

Couple posts in that exchange seemed the most interesting and relevant:

The Vgs (off) for the
2SK170 is typically -.5, max -1.5, whereas that of the 2N3819 is
typically -3, max -8. You might need to adjust (decrease) the
gate-source bias voltage. Otherwise, the Idss looks about the same, the
gate current looks close, the 2SK170 has higher breakdown voltage; you
ought to be able to make it work, but you'll probably have to tweak a
little.


and:

2SK170 is quieter ( and could work with adjustment of source and drain Rs )
but a quick glance at the data sheet suggests a DC operating point of Vgs
= -0.25V is about the best you'll get. Cutout is around 0.5V typical.
... this'll restict the dynamic range it can handle
compared to the 2N3819. 0.5V pk-pk at the gate compared to 1.4V pk-pk.
Approx 10dB degradation in level handling.


Indeed, in any design everything is a compromise, and those considerations should be taken into account. However, as always, there are tricks... but I already gave away too much information... maybe even more that I should have--just reach .

Best, M
Old 24th February 2009
  #69
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someone mentioned apex 185 mics

are apex 180 and 185 the same mic with extra electronics in the 185 or something like that?

just saying cuz I owned a 180 pair.... ewe blech... ouchy high end and very little bass, zero warmth, and noisy

thought I'd throw that in the mix LoL. my own personal experience after owning them for 2 years and trying and trying to make them work.

also although bought in one package they def were not matched (I don't think apex claimed to have them matched either). not even vaguely similar sounding between cardoid caps, and the omni caps also were a little different (so maybe circuit tolerance issues as well as capsule irregularies?)

either way, all 4 caps weren't very useful. couldn't use them on guitar or anything. only useful on cymbals when I needed to capture brightness without any body or warm at all (which I ended up using one time, with great success, but can do with much lower noise and smoother tone with other mics and eq).

Cheers,
Don
Old 24th February 2009
  #70
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Obitheincredible's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corran View Post
The funny part was I had just bought my pair of Earthworks QTC-1's for 11x that and my fiancee about exploded when I told her I had, in fact, bought more mics!

Mine hets mad at me too! I'm up to 21 mics now and still feel like I have a few holes in my mic locker! (not to mention pre's, converters, acoustic treatment, I mean this list can go on and on!)
Old 24th February 2009
  #71
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Michael_Joly's Avatar
 

The Apex 180 uses the same circuit as the MXL 603. The capsule housings are different though - the 180 has a slotted front end in addition to the wire mesh that the 603 has. The slotted front end really causes all kinds of diffraction and reflection nastiness.

The Apex 185 uses the same circuit (with separate switches for LF cut and 10dB pad) as the MXL 604. Same deal with the slotted capsule housing.

-------------------

Btw - and Re: CAD GXL3000 - I've completed my modification R&D and will add this mic to my shop tomorrow.

The GXL3000 Mod Suite: Single layer headbasket for smoother top end frequency response and more open sound. Flatter response Peluso PK-47 capsule will replace the too bright (in this circuit) stock K67-style capsule. Carefully routed (to minimize stray capacitance) Evidence Audio LYRIC HG solid copper wire for purest signal transfer in low level / high impedance circuit. OktavaMod Premium Electronics capacitors (non-polarized) along signal path. FET upgrade / re-bias for improved transient response and bipolar transistor re-bias for 7dB better headroom and elimination of hard clipping.
Attached Thumbnails
Drum over heads AT2020 VS MXL 603-450cadgxl3000.jpg  
Old 25th February 2009
  #72
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KeithMoonwannabe's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
I just meant brighter than the Kel's
I meant to say I would call them a little bright. I think they sound very similar to some C414 that I've used (I don't remember the exact numbers, sorry).

Definitely brighter than the KELs. My bad.
Old 13th March 2009
  #73
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rdatman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marik View Post
You whether did not read my message, or did not hear what I am saying, or else, just wanted to hear what you want to hear.
1) I have no idea why you refer me to Jim Williams, when it was YOU posting that information.
2) You are trying to connect capacitance of the device with its transient response, which is incorrect. So if Jim Williams THINKS that J305 has better transient response, it does not mean that this is because of its lower capacitance.
3) The sonic characteristics of devices like tubes or FETs very much DEPEND on their operating points, and "congestion" is one of those characteristics. With CORRECT OPERATING POINTS the 2SK170 sonically is a far superior device. And here I trust my own ears more than anybody else's.



What a mess!
First, I would love to see where, how, and which datasheet specifies that J305 has a superior HF performance than 2SK170.
Second, may I suggest that input capacitance very much depends on how the FET (or tube) is connected in the circuit. Please consult a textbook on that.
And last, third, I already mentioned that higher 2SK170 Ciss helps to reduce capsule distortion.

Best, M
All of this is irrelevant if 99 out of 100 ears agree. The J305 does sound more effortless in its rendering of audio in the signal path-- at least to me.
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