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Yamaha HS-80M making weird high pitch noise
Old 1st October 2008
  #1
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
Yamaha HS-80M making weird high pitch noise

(hope this is in the right place)

i have just got a pair of these. and BOTH are making a kind of high pitch buzzing noise. so its clear the monitors aren't faulty (because it would have to be bad luck for both to do the exact same thing)

after switching of my PC this noise stops. the noise also seems to elevate in pitch and volume whenever i do anything with the computer. (ie. minimize a window, load something)

i have tried moving them away from the pc, covering the pc, and everything like that yet the noise persists (i have yet to try seperating them by rooms, but that would surely defeat the object )

has anyone else had this problem? or anyone know what its about and how to stop. i figure something in the computer is making my monitors moan, but i have no idea what it could be.

if this helps, my pc spec is:

3.6ghz quad core
4gb ram
nvidia 8800gtx
antec p123 (not sure what number) solid black case
about three case fans, (i turn them from low to high and it doesn't affect the noise.)


is there anything i can do to stop this as at the moment the noise is really destroying any possibility of a good mix
Old 1st October 2008
  #2
Gear nut
 
Peter Hallin's Avatar
 

You will probably hear alot about ground loops now. Since I seem to have the same problem. And that was the verdict (unsolved). But that is my soundcard. In your case though, it is just heard through these monitors? Then the loop must occur because of them. Would the electricians and gearheads agree?
Old 1st October 2008
  #3
Gear Addict
 

I had the same thing happen with my HS50M's when I grounded them together with my DAW - so a ground loop it is. I just moved them back to plugs without earth pins and the noise was gone.
Old 2nd October 2008
  #4
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
plugs without earth pins?

can i buy these, im currently using the kettle leads that come with them.
Old 2nd October 2008
  #5
Lives for gear
 
peeder's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by idrisguitar View Post
plugs without earth pins?

can i buy these, im currently using the kettle leads that come with them.
DON'T DO IT.

It will make your system unsafe.

Buy a cheap audio interface instead. E.g. M-Audio. The audio interface will be far quieter than any internal soundcard, and it should have its own isolated ground built-in.
Old 2nd October 2008
  #6
Lives for gear
 
matucha's Avatar
In my expirience this is a bad shielding/filtering somewhere in the amplifier electronics. HS50M are impossible to use with some laptops, because the switching PSU that come with the computer makes very ugly noise, that goes through everything that is attached to it. Then with laptop you can always run on battery, but with desktop?

I also thought better interface will shield properly the signal... and no even my old friend apogee miniDAC didn't stop those from playing that impossible noise.

What stopped the noise was pluging the cables to a ADAM S3A. Then it was squeaky clean.

Then I recalled getting exact kind of noise in some clubs when playing from my notebook. But it was clean at other places. A friend with passive speakers told me the amplifier makes difference in this respect when connecting to his Tannoy Reveals. Some amplifiers sound clean, other play the noise as if it was something desirable or what ;-).


So try to:

1) find some kind of filtering box
2) change the PSU of your computer for a better one
3) change the monitors (yamaha's HF response was unbareably ugly to me anyway)
Old 2nd October 2008
  #7
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by peeder View Post
DON'T DO IT.

It will make your system unsafe.

Buy a cheap audio interface instead. E.g. M-Audio. The audio interface will be far quieter than any internal soundcard, and it should have its own isolated ground built-in.
Don't know if there's a difference between the power situation in Europe and the US (well, I know there is - but whether it's applicable in this regard, I don't know) but here in Denmark it's certainly no problem to run things ungrounded. Most appliances everywhere are not grounded. Most appliances ship with a power cable that runs ungrounded when used in Danish outlets.

My situation was this:

I was running two HS50M and two MSP10 Studio monitors off my Yamaha n12. No noise problems what so ever.

Got two Great River NV500-MP modules in an API rack. They hummed when using dynamic mics. Dan, amongst others, suggested I tried to ground it with the DAW via the power.

Bought new power distribution cables for the whole system, monitors and all.

Hum on Great Rivers gone - but suddenly a high pitched whine present on the HS50Ms (nothing on the MSP10 Studios, though).

Moved the HS50Ms back to a power distribution cable without ground.

All problems fixed. So it doesn't have to be due to a poor soundcard.
Old 2nd October 2008
  #8
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
from the sounds of things i need to change my pc power supply, or my monitors.

im worried though, because my power supply is a top fo the line corsair.

or does that make a difference.


i wont have problems selling the monitors will I? are they damaged in any way or is it just my pc?
Old 2nd October 2008
  #9
Lives for gear
 
peeder's Avatar
 

It's your soundcard.

OK? It's your soundcard.

It's your soundcard.

Bye.
Old 2nd October 2008
  #10
Lives for gear
 
skiltrip's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by idrisguitar View Post
(hope this is in the right place)

i have just got a pair of these. and BOTH are making a kind of high pitch buzzing noise. so its clear the monitors aren't faulty (because it would have to be bad luck for both to do the exact same thing)

after switching of my PC this noise stops. the noise also seems to elevate in pitch and volume whenever i do anything with the computer. (ie. minimize a window, load something)

i have tried moving them away from the pc, covering the pc, and everything like that yet the noise persists (i have yet to try seperating them by rooms, but that would surely defeat the object )

has anyone else had this problem? or anyone know what its about and how to stop. i figure something in the computer is making my monitors moan, but i have no idea what it could be.

if this helps, my pc spec is:

3.6ghz quad core
4gb ram
nvidia 8800gtx
antec p123 (not sure what number) solid black case
about three case fans, (i turn them from low to high and it doesn't affect the noise.)


is there anything i can do to stop this as at the moment the noise is really destroying any possibility of a good mix
yes, it's definitely a ground loop problem and here's how to fix it.

First... plug everything in your recording system, including your computer into the same outlet. Plug one powerstrip into that one receptacle, and plug all equipment or other powerstrips into that one. I had this problem, with things plugged into both receptacles in the same outlet and i got the noises (buzz, whine, whirr, changes when i move the mouse around, minimize windows, open and close docs, etc). use One receptacle. only one.

If that doesn't work... get one of these...
GROUND LOOP ISOLATOR NOISE SUPPRESSOR HUM KILLER 201 - eBay (item 110294713114 end time Oct-30-08 08:00:54 PDT)
use this for the connection between your amp/powered monitors and your interface/mixer. the noises will disappear. it's a real cheap fix. it may have a really really slight effect on your monitored sound, but it never bothered me any when I used one.
Old 19th November 2008
  #11
Gear interested
 

Hi idrisguitar and others. I just wanted to see if you had solved the problem and if a ground loop isolator worked?
I have a pair of Yamah Hs50's and im getting a similar high pitched buzzing noise (more prominantly from one) when connecting them to my laptop via an EMU 0404 or a M Audio fast track interface. Coincidently, they work fine when connected to my housemates Line 6 toneport (I wonder if this has anything to do with the toneports analgoue outputs?)
Im using high quality jack to XLR cables.
Also, I only get this noise when my laptop is plugged into the mains. I can just run the laptop off its battery to avoid the noise through the monitors, but this is rather inconvenient.
Also skiltrip, Ive noticed that the GL isolator you suggested seems to use phono connections. Do you have a suggestion of an easy way to make this compatable as my interface and speakers only accept jack and/or XLR inputs/outputs? Will i need adaptors?
Thanks in advance for any advice
Old 19th November 2008
  #12
A2D
Gear Head
 

+4 balanced xlr connection -10 unbalanced rca connection
you could also just remove the sheild pin3 at the speaker end
just a thaught
Old 10th October 2009
  #13
Gear interested
 

Hi,

If someone else comes looking for this later, as I did, then it appears that the ground loop theory is correct (at least in some cases).

I had HSM50s connected through a Yamaha subwoofer, and I was getting a lot of high frequency noise that would change depending on mouse movements, minimizing applications, and other computer activity. The speakers were connected through the subwoofer to an RME Fireface, using XLR to balanced 1/4 TRS. The power supply in the computer is a mid- to upper-end unit (and the speakers were never connected to the PC's regular soundcard).

The problem would go away whenever the computer was switched off. However, it was there regardless of whether the Fireface was powered on, or even if the Fireface was connected to the computer. I tried the good suggestion given above of powering everything from one power bar plugged in to a single point (not even sharing two plugs from one outlet), but that did not help in this case.

I am in North America, so the cords with the Yamaha speakers came with the normal IEC connector on the speaker end, and a three-prong plug on the other end (just a common computer/equipment power connector). I found an old power cord, and using pliers, just tore the ground pin out and tried that cable on one of the monitors - instantly the sound was gone.

I applied the plier technique to the two nice long power cables that came with the Yamaha speakers, and connected them up again. Both perfect. (The next problem is the noisy Seagate HD, which needs to be swapped out for one of the nice quiet Western Digital green terabyte drives, so there's never an end to it.)

A previous poster pointed out the risks of removing grounding - the risk is real, as it means if there is ever a fault affecting the line/mains wiring inside one of the speakers, it would be theoretically possible for external metal connections to be live. With only 120V here that might not be fatal, but it would be less fun at 240V if that is your local voltage.

I don't know the pros and cons of ungrounding the speakers versus ungrounding other components, such as the computer. However, I reasoned that there are few exposed surfaces on the speakers, both inside where a fault would occur and outside where I might touch it (unlike the metal of the computer power supply and cabinet), so the chances of shocks seemed lower on the speaker (though of course a fault in the speakers could make its way onto the audio lines coming out the speakers and go anywhere else too).

The other factor I considered was that both the safety of the speakers and my personal safety was being severely compromised by the whining noise anyway, so I don't think I've made the setup any more dangerous than it was. Whatever you decide to do, be aware that there are potential safety implications to interfering with the grounding.

It would be interesting to know if there is something that Yamaha did wrong with these speakers, as it should have been possible to double-insulate the AC side including ground from all the rest of the speaker circuitry, and avoid the creation of ground loops.

But such a relief to have the problem gone!
Old 10th October 2009
  #14
Lives for gear
I have a similar problem..

Sometimes it's my hard drives which cause the weird noise.
I've put it onto another 6 way bar, and that seems to have reduced it a little bit.

When I move, I'm going to put my speakers through my power unit in my rack and see if that makes a difference.

These monitors do seem to be very sensitive to other hardware and grounding problems.
Shame they sound AWESOME!
Old 10th October 2009
  #15
LdC
Gear Maniac
 

I also had this problem with my HS-80Ms - I solved it by lifting the ground pin on the XLR cable.
Old 5th March 2010
  #16
Gear interested
 

High pitched shriek on HS-50M

Just for posterity's sake:

I also experienced a faint high pitched shriek when playing audio through the HS-50M's (not to be confused with the high frequency hiss that seems to be quite normal for this model).
Fortunately, the soundcard I'm using (Edirol UA-25EX) has a dedicated ground-lift switch for cancelling ground loops problems, which happened to solve the issue.
The HS-50M's are connected with grounded cables (three prongs) to a 220v AC outlet and with TRS to XLR balanced cables to the USB soundcard. The PSU is a decent quality Zalman.
Old 6th March 2010
  #17
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavelle View Post


A previous poster pointed out the risks of removing grounding - the risk is real, as it means if there is ever a fault affecting the line/mains wiring inside one of the speakers, it would be theoretically possible for external metal connections to be live. With only 120V here that might not be fatal, but it would be less fun at 240V if that is your local voltage.
Actually the voltage is not that meaningful as you can get electrocuted the same with both voltages, it all depends on how much current is let trough by whatever protection is in place (circuit breakers, fuses). Current is what really matters, not voltage.
Old 30th April 2010
  #18
Gear interested
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LdC View Post
I also had this problem with my HS-80Ms - I solved it by lifting the ground pin on the XLR cable.
Hi, I´ve also been suffering a lot with these HS50m monitors. A week ago I bought a RME Multiface II soundcard, and I had a strange noise coming out the Yamaha´s.

I heard noise while dragging windows on the screen, when I maximize/minimize windows... It was more present in one monitor than the other. But I thought it was the card and I sent it back.

I changed everything in my computer, motherboard, graphics card, PSU, and it was the same. So I have to conclude, reading this post that the problem is in the HS50M...

I didn´t think of lifting the ground of the XLR cable...
Old 30th April 2010
  #19
Lives for gear
 

What do you guys mean by "lifting the ground"?



Thanks in advance.
Old 1st May 2010
  #20
Gear interested
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MustacheVerra View Post
What do you guys mean by "lifting the ground"?



Thanks in advance.
Look here:
XLR connector - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It means disconnecting PIN 1 in the XLR cable, it means removing the connection to ground, so you break the transmission of unwanted noises due to the circulation of current in the earth connection.
Old 1st May 2010
  #21
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metheny View Post
Look here:
XLR connector - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It means disconnecting PIN 1 in the XLR cable, it means removing the connection to ground, so you break the transmission of unwanted noises due to the circulation of current in the earth connection.

Haha! I feel kind of stupid now. I'll remember that one.

Cheers mate.
Old 16th October 2010
  #22
Gear interested
 

Had and resolved the exact same problem.

I'm running the HS50M's with Windows 7 on an Alien and a Firebox.

Very discouraging out of the box and connected to a previously problem free set-up.

I grabbed a couple of balanced 1/4" to XLR cables and the kookiest uber-shielded firewire cable I could find.

Fixed... and I was convinced the problem was much deeper. Whew!
Old 17th October 2010
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Alxi's Avatar
 

Same problems here with the hs-50. Hi freq hiss and some weird sound when i move windows and i can hear my hard drive work sometimes.

I have bought a monster cable power center and connected everything to it. Problem is still there. Tried to take the ground out of the power cables... still there, tried to connect/unconnect a few things...still there. Tried to connect them elsewhere in the house... same problems

I was going to buy the HS-80 cause i so freaking love how my mixes are coming through now but i fear the same issues woul be there. They are no longer under warranty so if i knew a thing or two about electonics i would open them up but i don't know shizzle so i guess i won't.

Still. i love those speakers but i would very much like to work without the hiss
Old 17th October 2010
  #24
Lives for gear
 
Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

There was a thread about this, or something similiar not too long ago, no? I forget how it was resolved, but I think it had something to do with the tweeters?
Old 17th October 2010
  #25
Gear Head
 

I know it sounds crazy but I guess it's your graphic card..

I had exactly same problem as you, my monitors (Yamaha MSP7) the tweeter has some weird static noise coming through if my graphic card is throttling(Nvidia GTX480), I replaced the graphic card to some lower end model without those 2D/3D, clocking up and down ****, static noise from my monitors are gone, they are dead silent now.
Old 29th October 2010
  #26
Gear interested
 

hi after buyin my yahama hr80s i got the same problem with buzz sounds or white noize but only when i pluged my laptop in so after reading about this same problem on all different forums and buyin power conditioners and filters i found a solution, someone posted that it was a ground loop problem so i bought a ground loop interupter. i did need to buy some stuff with it but still it worked, it only comes in rca so i had to buy some 1/4" adapters because i am going from my mbox mini to the hr80's it work right away so give this a try
Old 29th October 2010
  #27
Gear Nut
 

i postet this already in another thread, but maybe this one is more accurate, so:

hey,

bringing back this old thread - i have also this hiss/hum problem with the yamaha hs80m monitors. seems to be a common problem unfortunately.

i am using a pc with an audio 8 interface from native instrumens, this goes to a a&h xone mixer and from there to the hs80m.

however, as soon as i first feed any sound signal to them they start making really high pitched noises, like i listen my hard drives work through the monitors. it is very annoying when i try to mix not so loud.

i tried a lot of different setups with the power connection, like having all on the same line or seperating the monitors from pc and mixer, no success after all.

i am not sure if i want to remove the earth pin from the cables, i would prefer another solution.

my question is
a) would a better sound interface, like rme fireface 400 with power supply solve this problem or
b) should i get something like a DI box or similar device regarding this problem, and if so, which? (i know there devices that adress this issue but i have no idea what to get)

thanks
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