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Favorite Amps For Recording
Old 26th March 2003
  #121
Jax
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Quote:
Originally posted by Han
9 pages of discussion about amps and nobody mentioned the Koch amps.

One of the best sounding amps I ever had the pleasure to record with.

http://www.koch-amps.com/

Try it
I don't think anyone mentioned Top Hat either. That's some botique ass ****, yo.
Old 27th March 2003
  #122
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Top Hat's are cool but I don't come across many of them in my travels. I see far more Rivera and Soldano then Top Hat, and I don't see much of the first two either.
Old 27th March 2003
  #123
Gear Addict
 
muddy's Avatar
 

actually, these are the go;

http://www.brunoamps.com/home.htm

the underground 30, in particular.


ml
Old 29th March 2003
  #124
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Beezoboy's Avatar
 

Thanks kent, I'll look into that. Really.
Old 1st April 2003
  #125
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally posted by slipperman
As for the Matchless. I have just recently spent quite a bit of time with the new 'Green 212' combo(Model#?). And it was one of the 'LEAST' recordable amps I have ever had to put to tape.
Wow, I couldn't disagree more based on my experience with my Matchless DC-30. Fitted with choice NOS tubes (a Telefunken EF86 in channel 2 is the ****) it is God's Own Amp. Just put a Royer 121 about 8" away, directly in the center so you get both of the mismatched speakers, and press record.

Also, channel 2 cranked, with a good Les Paul, is the "only rock sound that matters", imo. You gotta hear it!
Old 2nd April 2003
  #126
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Meriphew's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Randy Porter
Wow, I couldn't disagree more based on my experience with my Matchless DC-30. Fitted with choice NOS tubes (a Telefunken EF86 in channel 2 is the ****) it is God's Own Amp. Just put a Royer 121 about 8" away, directly in the center so you get both of the mismatched speakers, and press record.

Also, channel 2 cranked, with a good Les Paul, is the "only rock sound that matters", imo. You gotta hear it!
I've been trying to decide on whether to buy a Fender Vibro King, Matchless DC-30, or Matchless Chieftain 2x12. I'm leaning towards the Chieftain right now. My main amp right now is a Mesa Blue Angel, which is totally boss, but I'm always looking for more flavors.
Old 2nd April 2003
  #127
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Wow, I couldn't disagree more based on my experience with my Matchless DC-30. Fitted with choice NOS tubes (a Telefunken EF86 in channel 2 is the ****) it is God's Own Amp. Just put a Royer 121 about 8" away, directly in the center so you get both of the mismatched speakers, and press record.

I've heard about cases of Erectile Dysfunction being cured by Royer 121's.
Old 3rd April 2003
  #128
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toledo3's Avatar
 

Why did this thread get shifted here? It really belongsin so much gear, so little time, if it was to be shifted anywhere else.
Old 7th April 2003
  #129
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Jules
Tell me, do gtr head FX loops like studio +4 "line level" gear?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by muddy
as a rule, i would think not. remember, fx loops were originally intended for guitar pedals.


ml
Actually in general FX loops are at +4 line level, they are designed in general for pro fx processors, pedals are designed to go between guitar and amp.
Old 7th April 2003
  #130
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
I think that pretty much varies from amp to amp. I've seen some amps, Marshalls come to mind totally choke with a +4 box in the loop. They're much happier with pedals or running a -10 FX box.
Old 9th April 2003
  #131
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
I think that pretty much varies from amp to amp. I've seen some amps, Marshalls come to mind totally choke with a +4 box in the loop. They're much happier with pedals or running a -10 FX box.
I'd agree with that, actually most non-boutique amps seem to prefer pedals out front.

Overall, the many great amps mentioned all can sound good with the right guitar, gutarist, mic and music. It's nice to see so many 'old fiends' mentioned as good amps.

With my band I need clean to heavy classic sounds and some fx or just verb ... I play a Trace Elliot Speed Twin C50 with Sovtek and Phillips 12AX7's in the pre amp and Yellow Jacket EL84s running Class A ... a single Weber Alnico Blue. That sits on top of a Genz Benz ported 2x12" cab loaded with Greenbacks, that's powered by a Mesa 20/20 with Sovtek 84's. Top verb is Spring, bottom verb/delays etc. is Rocktron Replifex with a Spatializer Retro on it for euphonic space.

Mic the top with a Unidyne III 57, and the bottom with a sideways R121 or 4038 and you have 2 mics that make any size of 3 point stereo you need in mixing.
Old 12th April 2003
  #132
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Pohaku's Avatar
 

The new Matchless amps may not sound like the old ones - I haven't listened to one since they were re-issued. It's a completely different company than the one Mark Sampson had. My recollection is it got sold to Randall and then bought back and then went into bankruptcy. Actually, as I understand it, the lawyers now own it (and what the hell do they know about sound, right?) Sampson is now making Bad Cat amps. I have one of the original Matchless SC-30s and it's great for recording. I use that an a 1964 transitional tolex champ (tweed champ circuit, but in black tolex - a limited production item apparently). Just one knob (volume) and it goes to 12!
Old 12th April 2003
  #133
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Meriphew's Avatar
 

All of the Matchless (original) amp owners that I know of, who have played the new Matchless amps, say they are pretty much exactly the same as the originals. The lawyers no longer own Matchless by the way.
Old 12th April 2003
  #134
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Where do Sampson amps fit into the mix? Were they before or after Bad Cat or in addition to Bad Cat?
Old 12th April 2003
  #135
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Meriphew's Avatar
 

Sampson started the original Matchless back in the late 80's.
Old 12th April 2003
  #136
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Pohaku's Avatar
 

I believe they are in addition to Bad Cat. I'll check. A friend and client of mine is a dealer for Matchless as well as Bad Cat and Sampson. I'll go plug into one of the new Matchless amps and see what they sound like. I'll also find out who owns Matchless these days.
Old 12th April 2003
  #137
Gear Addict
 

The Bad Cat amps are supposed to be Sampson's improvement upon his original Matchless designs, and one of those improvements is supposed to be more attention to noise floor. Don't know how this pans out in reality. I wouldn't be surprised if the current Matchless amps are pretty close to the originals, if not indistinguishable, but I don't expect further development from them. Another company to be aware of is Overbuilt amps, which are (or is it now were? - I haven't seen them in a while) built by ex-Matchless people and very similar in appearance and probably in design to Matchless.

Bear
Old 13th April 2003
  #138
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pohaku
The new Matchless amps may not sound like the old ones... It's a completely different company than the one Mark Sampson had. My recollection is it got sold to Randall and then bought back and then went into bankruptcy. Actually, as I understand it, the lawyers now own it

Part of your explanation is correct. After the company went out of the original owners' control, it went out of business. One of the "pre-Randall" builders of the amps, Phil Jamison, re-started the business a couple years ago and is faithfully re-creating the amps pretty much as they originally were. I've heard a new DC-30 and it sounded just like mine (a '94). Mark Sampson was recently hired by a new company -- Bad Cat -- to design their amps. Those amps (with the exception of the Hot Cat) are based on his Matchless designs but with the addition of what he sees as improvements. He is also co-designer with another person on a line of Class A -- but circuit board-based -- amps called Sonic Machine Factory.
Old 13th April 2003
  #139
Gear Addict
 

Here's a link that should clarify a bit of Matchless history, although obviously from a perspective.

http://www.musicianshotline.com/arch...t_msampson.htm

Bear
Old 13th April 2003
  #140
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Ack. So confusing. Is there a time line on Mark Sampson and his different amps/companys?

The really screwy thing is that when you get down to nuts and tubes there are really only four amps.

Fender. Marshall. Vox. Boogie.

Everything else is based on those. ****, even Boogie started as a Fender, and Marshall started out as a Fender copy too. So when you really strip it all away what is there?

Fender. God Bless Leo. RIP.
Old 13th April 2003
  #141
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toledo3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
Ack. So confusing. Is there a time line on Mark Sampson and his different amps/companys?

The really screwy thing is that when you get down to nuts and tubes there are really only four amps.

Fender. Marshall. Vox. Boogie.

HERESY You forgot AMPEG!!!!!!!!! Definitely their own thing. And the original Boogiea were just a fender w/ a distorto preamp.
Old 14th April 2003
  #142
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Ampeg my ass. Everyone knows that they only made bass amps.

But seriously folks, even Ampeg stuff seems to be a bit Fender-ish in tone to me. Those big 'ol 6L6's grinding away.

BTW, what's the going rate on a Silverface Champ? I found a pair today, one at $280 and the other at $300. Is that fair or on the high side? Condition was average, not trashed but not mint.
Old 14th April 2003
  #143
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toledo3's Avatar
 

Consider that Ampeg was the first to but REVERB in their amps. Also, though many of their amps do use 6L6's, many of them don't use the same preamp tubes.

That's an average price for a Champ, and you aren't really likely to see them go for cheaper. It sucks, b/c that was the bottom of the line, but it is getting to where silverfaces are kind of being desired after years of people mistakenly scorning them. I find really good deals on blackface and silverface fender heads though, all of the time. For some reason, people are suspicious of them.
Old 14th April 2003
  #144
Champs are £300-£400 pounds in the UK so a lot more...

Is there ONE definitive model to go for?

Vibro Champ / with Reverb?

Serial numbers?

Date?

Speaker type?

Give us some clues!

Old 14th April 2003
  #145
Gear Nut
 

This particular model really didn't change over the years (Blackface and Silverface anyway). Tweed Champs are another story, and one I don't know a great deal about.

After the mid-60s takeover, CBS didn't seem to think the lowly Champ and VibroChamp merited any new R&D dollars, so aside from components being sourced from different suppliers over the years, there's no real difference in the circuitry between Blackface and Silverface. Blackfaces will cost more, not sure of the going rate. Silverface VibroChamps run between $225 - $300 in the U.S. from what I see.

My Silverface VibroChamp is one of my favorite recording amps ever. The trem circuit is amazing - I prefer it to any other Fender I've ever owned or played, and it ate my $$$ Demeter Tremulator for lunch.

I'd say if you're considering a Champ, hold out for a VibroChamp. None of these was ever made with reverb, FWIW.

The keys here are

1) Get your Champ serviced - fresh electrolytic caps, 3-prong mains cord, etc.

2) Consider upgrading the speaker. I'm running a Weber P8Q and it sounds glorious.

3) My personal favorite trick is to run an EL-84 for power via a THD Yellowjacket convertor. A New Old Stock Mullard makes for magical chime and overtones.

This little rig is extremely pedal friendly and sounds very big on tape. Also a great thing for writing sessions and low-volume rehearsels.

Good luck!
Old 14th April 2003
  #146
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Well, my personal favorite of the silverfaces would happen to be the bandmaster head.

After years of me thinking the master volume silverface twin reverbs suck, a guy came into my studio with one and it totally kicks ass. Go figure.
Old 14th April 2003
  #147
Gear Addict
 

I believe the Vibro-Champ tremolo circuit messes with the bias current of a preamp or output tube to effect the volume modulation, as opposed to the optical circuit in most larger blackface and silverface Fenders which grounds the signal and degrades the sound even when it is switched out. I got a little bug to do a high grade home brew head version of one now.

Bear
Old 14th April 2003
  #148
Gear Nut
 

Yep, Champs, VibroChamps, and Princeton/Princeton Reverbs have the bias vary trem, and it is the power tube(s). I believe all the rest use the optical circuit.

A homebrew head version would be very cool. You could always do an 8 ohm output xformer instead of the stock 4 ohms, allowing to it mate better with a variety of cabs. I keep meaning to put together a 12" 4 ohm extension cab, but haven't quite gotten there yet.
Old 16th April 2003
  #149
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
How about the Priceton amps? A few weeks a silverface reverb was declared the MVP award on the ever-ending album project, because the album finally ended. Did they vary much from year to year and version to version?
Old 16th April 2003
  #150
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sonic dogg's Avatar
Fender amps all varied tremendously after CBS in their infinate wisdom, decided to 'modernize' Leo's production techniques and circuitry.As far as Princetons, the tweed circuits were slightly different than the Blackface and the early Silverface which to my knowledge were identical.As in ALL point-to-point hand wired amps, each one will exhibit an individual characteristic sound.
Here, we use a 1970 Silverface that has a mid-range knob installed in a non-destructive manner.Adding the mids to this little amp has made it a MAJOR little monster in the tone dept. When w do the stereo guitar recording, we use the princeton on one side and the Blues Jr. on the other...a nice combination IMHO...AND you can actually be in the same room with em cranked up!
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