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Favorite Amps For Recording
Old 5th March 2003
  #61
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Fibes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by slipperman
My point is... Some 'Great' guitar sounds seem to resist the prospect of a decent sounding 'Deconstruct' or 'Shape out' with ANY amount of EQing in mix. Another bizarre and sometimes frightening observation I have made over the years.

Any comments on this?

SM.
You need EQ anon! Phase shift in the eq could be wrangling the more full range stuff ie. guit's. How many eq's you need? ther's already one on the amp. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Old 5th March 2003
  #62
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BradM's Avatar
Another vote for the small Fenders...I have a blackface Fender Princeton that just seems to sound great no matter what I do to it--clean, overdriven, pedals in front, hooked up to an external 2x12 or 4x12. I think I've recorded more decent tones out of that little amp than all my other amps combined.

I'm especially digging the tones I'm capturing from my new Weber loaded Avatar 2x12 cab. I have one Silver Bell and one Blue Dog in there--the mix of the two is magic. It kills the sound of the Celestion loaded Marshall cabs I have around. I remember reading on PSW that Slipperman is using a Weber loaded cab for most of the guitar tracks he is doing. What speakers do you have in there? Actually I've had such good luck with the Weber speakers that I've put them in every combo and cab I own expect for one Marshall cab.

I just ordered a custom amp from Fab Enterprises in Canada. It will be a 12 watt Class A beast that does Vox AC30 tones on one channel and Hiwatt DR103 lead tones on the other. PTP, handwired and only cost me a few hundred bucks! Should be interesting.

Regarding the resistance of guitar tracks to EQ in the mix...I've recognized this from time to time as well. Sometimes it's best just to let it be what it wants to be and make room for it to shine in all its glory. On rare occasions when the track wasn't playing nice with all the others, I just recorded a new one that let me have my way with it.

Brad
Old 5th March 2003
  #63
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preben's Avatar
 

The low wattage Vox/Hiwatt sounds very interesting. Is there a link or something..??
Old 5th March 2003
  #64
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
I find that the more EQ I use on guitars the less I like them. The best guitar EQ is the one on the amp, followed by the mic. I'm against EQ'ing guitars and I do it all the time, but it's always very little maybe 2-3dB tops. Though, I did just mix an album where I pulled out the pliers on the electric guitars and was using three or four bands of parametric on each track.
Old 5th March 2003
  #65
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toledo3's Avatar
 

Well, if you find yourself doing too much eq in the mids, you probably don't have a tone that "fits." I don't see any problems with liberal high/low pass. I view that as "how close do I want it to sound."
Old 6th March 2003
  #66
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sonic dogg's Avatar
I think it depends on the type of EQ you're using and where it is in the chain. It is without question better to use the eq on the amp while tracking.I generally wont even use an outboard pre just the mic and its placement. Theres no lack of gain on a close-miced guitar and embellishment here starts to paint yourself a little corner.I have a couple of tricks i like to use at mix..sometimes and especially with fender guitars, the most glassy pristine sound will start to disappear with the addition of the vocals and such...at this point i'll simply throw an aphex compellor across the inserts ,squeeze it a little and change the high frequency phase a touch..this generally will git that gittar out where it speaks...another trick is to re-amp to the same amp and same settings as the tracking..this makes for a nice fat pallette to paint from.......as for princeton reverbs, old blackies and slightly newer silverfaced(not the defaced ones), one of my partners is a toobe maniac...he takes these little critters home and they live in the toob lab for a bit...then they come back with teeth and muscles and an interesting midrange control that is outer worldly....he also builds a little 50 watt solid-state booster amp that works between the speaker output of the amp and an additional cabinet of your choosing...dont ask me how it works but it takes on all the characteristics of the amps out puts and simply adds that to another extension cabinet...and the extension amps output is flat and uncolored...its just more wattage.......place your orders here.....
Old 6th March 2003
  #67
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BradM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by preben
The low wattage Vox/Hiwatt sounds very interesting. Is there a link or something..??
Go to:

http://fabstuff.home.attbi.com

The prices are unbelieveably inexpensive for what you are getting. Rob will basically make you anything you want. This guy really seems to get off on making these customized amps. Initially user impressions/reviews/comments have been very favorable and encouraging.

Brad
Old 6th March 2003
  #68
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toledo3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Brad McGowan
Go to:

http://fabstuff.home.attbi.com

The prices are unbelieveably inexpensive for what you are getting. Rob will basically make you anything you want. This guy really seems to get off on making these customized amps. Initially user impressions/reviews/comments have been very favorable and encouraging.

Brad
Can you pass along Rose's number?
Old 6th March 2003
  #69
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BradM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by sonic dogg
....he also builds a little 50 watt solid-state booster amp that works between the speaker output of the amp and an additional cabinet of your choosing...dont ask me how it works but it takes on all the characteristics of the amps out puts and simply adds that to another extension cabinet...and the extension amps output is flat and uncolored...its just more wattage.......place your orders here.....
Okay my interst is piqued. Tell us more! How much is he charging?

Brad
Old 6th March 2003
  #70
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sonic dogg's Avatar
You'll have to P.M. me sos I stay 'ethical' here at the slutz-r-us...I'll be glad to hook you up there.....
Old 6th March 2003
  #71
Gear Nut
 
Pricey's Avatar
 

When it comes to EQ, I do most of it with the amp's EQ and mic selection. I keep the heads in the control room and run 20' speaker cables to the iso booth, so I can hear the guitar sound through the monitors while I'm twisting knobs. The only EQ I can stand on guitars is a UAD Pultec (don't have the real thing), because it doesn't add harshness. I also use a low cut filter to get rid of subsonics, so it hits the compressor right.

Another trick is patching a parametric EQ into the amp's FX loop; you can get away with a lot more EQing, because the output tubes smooth out the sound. I'm also a big fan of re-amping, tapping the signal at various points in the chain (from the guitar, from the distortion pedal, from the FX loop, or from the speaker output). You can use your studio effects (eq, compression, chorus, etc.) as "pedals."

A stationary wah pedal makes a great EQ (pre-distortion). Or a dynamic wah set on a narrow range. It gives it a kind of "funk," similar to a great Hammond organ. Speaking of which, a Leslie speaker on "slow" makes a great, ballsy chorus sound on rhythm guitar (even a Leslie simulator is good). The trick is to feed it a miced sound, NOT a direct sound, and overdrive it just a little.

BTW, what's with that damn squirrel? Did he drink a whole keg?
Old 6th March 2003
  #72
hmmm

That eq in the FX loop idea is apealing... I HAVE done it, but it was ages ago..

Tell me, do gtr head FX loops like studio +4 "line level" gear?

I would think my Blue Focusrite 215 unit would be ideal for such a task..

Sh!t I really need to take a "guitar f**k around" day off soon..



What an excelent thread..

Thanks

Old 6th March 2003
  #73
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muddy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
Tell me, do gtr head FX loops like studio +4 "line level" gear?
as a rule, i would think not. remember, fx loops were originally intended for guitar pedals.


ml
Old 6th March 2003
  #74
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Fibes's Avatar
 

[QUOTE
PPS. Any 'Mesa Leslie' or 'Guitar Leslie'(The little purpose-built black jobbie) guys out there? [/B][/QUOTE]


Yeah and i prefer it to the big one for guitar and vocals. I don't know why cause it ain't real... Gotta have the 10" eminence for THAT sound.

Those amps look really cool. i want one.
Old 6th March 2003
  #75
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toledo3's Avatar
 

Varispeed is always tasty.

Yeah, running a signal through a compressor backwards can really be good. Is it that the transients can get tamed better? I'd like to hear of some secret trickery. Does that kind of go hand in hand with slowing the tape down when you run it thorugh the compression?
Old 7th March 2003
  #76
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sonic dogg's Avatar
Love the leslie-ized guitar. I've got an old 120 model.Single 12" nd two speeds...usually will use the B-15 head on it but all of em sound so cool...I like to use it on my bed tracks..usually I'll track a backing guitar and then double it with the leslie on slow..Then sometimes I'll switch guitars and run the same track then double up on it again through the leslie.I've always been partial to the wooden ones..theres just something in their timbre you cant get elsewhere..
Old 7th March 2003
  #77
Gear Head
 
Mixervixen's Avatar
 

How would I do that? I know next to nothing about the Leslie speaker, but by golly I have a big old one sitting in the corner. The only way into it, apparently, is this big ugly odd connector that I think must only connect to the cut down B3 sitting next to it. Someone told me there are adaptors made to accommodate other signals, but that they were not all that great. Do you make your own? Is there another, easier way?
Old 7th March 2003
  #78
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
I've seen preamp pedals for Leslie cabs that have 1/4" inputs. I'm sure it's also possible to mod one.
Old 7th March 2003
  #79
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muddy's Avatar
 

guitar-lez is just about my fave guitar effect. but the last person I saw to do this live, full on, correctly, was jan akkermann, with focus, at the academy of music (gentle giant opened!!!). it was for the "hamburger concerto" tour, & he played through 2 leslie cabinets. i was in the front row, too! talk about bloody wide!!! it was about THE most amazing guitar tone i have EVER heard! he was undoubtedly the unrecognized king of leslie.


ml
Old 7th March 2003
  #80
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balt4house's Avatar
 

surprise no one here has run into a Tone King... or run over I should say?

curious how they fare for recording... always liked the sound
Old 7th March 2003
  #81
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Fibes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Mixervixen
How would I do that?
If it's a real one, there are pre-amp pedals like Jay said. About 300-350 on ebay and it gives you switching capabilities.
Old 7th March 2003
  #82
Gear Maniac
 
wurly's Avatar
 

Leslie fun

HampTone makes a great input /preamp/controller for the leslie speaker. It has 1/4" in, bass & treble eq, and volume, as well as a speed switch for the leslie. And hey, it's got those wacky thermionic emission glowy kind of dealy bobs in it too. Sounds groovy. Also good for running nasty digital keyboards and microphones through the leslie. The HampTone also can drive two leslies at once with different pinouts (5&6 pin as I recall). You should be able to order from HampTone or your local Hammond service wizards.

wurly
Old 7th March 2003
  #83
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sonic dogg's Avatar
Yeah Yeah!..the leslie preamp(big chrome sucker) was built to run the later solid state models and has all you need to work a 122 147 or any of the powered wooden models...5 or 6 pin cable and 1/4" ins and outs..you can run another amp as well as the leslie with one of them...they are getting a hefty price for em these days...its one reason i bought an unpowered unit...built my own cabling and there ya go...
Old 7th March 2003
  #84
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
I wish I had a Leslie here. On the album I'm mixing right one there's two songs where we used a POD with the Leslie patch for 3rd guitar parts in a pre-chorus. It took FOREVER to make it sit the in the track right and it'll still need some EQ to pop when I get around to mixing the one song. I'll never forget the first time I played guitar through a Leslie. Holy crap. I wanted one so bad and I still do but I don't have the space or cash for one.
Old 7th March 2003
  #85
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Fibes's Avatar
 

Jay,

The little faux fenders and "leslie" one can be had pretty cheap(the cost of an expensive stompbox) and for guitar, vocals and the occasional keyboard works damn well. I have a 127 (combination 122/147) that usually watches the little one do all the guitar and vocal work. I picked a broken one up for 40 bucks, put a speaker in it and wired up the switch and went spinning off to heaven.

SM it's the one behind the kit under the Vox VI.
Old 7th March 2003
  #86
Here for the gear
 

I have one of those old tacky parlour organs in my basement collecting dust right now. I'd love to rip the leslie unit out of that sucker and try to get to work with my guitar somehow. I wonder if anyone's ever done that successfully...
Old 7th March 2003
  #87
Gear Maniac
 

any LA guys here who can recommend where/who to take old heads to?

TIA...
Old 8th March 2003
  #88
Gear Addict
 
muddy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by slipperman
That must have been about 'Free Hand' tour for Giant. 1975 or so right?
bingo, slippie!!! de, de, de, dediddye, ye, de, de, dediddyye... yeah, i'm a kindred canterburian proggie! you know that i played in n.y.gong with daevid allen & laswell, beinhorn & maher, don't you? i also played in national health with phil miller, john greaves, allen gowen (mister stewart was outta the pic by then, playing in bruford's band) & pip pyle.


ml
Old 8th March 2003
  #89
Gear Addict
 
muddy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by slipperman
Is that how you landed in NYC?
nah, i was born & raised here in da city. btw, chris cutler played with us (gong) too ;-)


ml
Old 8th March 2003
  #90
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CHAOS's Avatar
 

...

Did anyone mention the Silvertone Twin 12? You turn everything all the way up and....SING!
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