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Pro tools HD vs Mix 24 888 system Digital Converters
Old 22nd February 2009
  #61
Stay 002, buy a pair of Apogees and perhaps a faster CPU. The Mix system is frustrating bc a) the 888's don't sound great, and B) you are limitetd to a G4 computer, OS 10.3.4 and PT 6.4 which means hard to find plug ins that will even install much less work!!
Old 22nd February 2009
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a3n View Post
not to steal your wind, but I did this 4 years ago and LE won.
The session was 24 tracks wide stereo, and contained some very high dynamics and lush top end, I.e. a good classical orchestra recording.
The difference was definitely there, more punch and impact in the lows better stereoimage and top end definition in the highs. All in all a more 'connected' sound in the mix done on LE.
we'll see. I rather suspect complete cancellation
Old 22nd February 2009
  #63
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RCM - Ronan's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWallStudio View Post
Its been said earlier in this thread, but it bears repeating... the 888s suck. .
Just to offer another perspective: Although there are certainly better converters on the market, I play stuff for clients through 888/24s all the time and not once has one ever commented that what they are hearing coming out of the speakers sucks. Also there are tons of amazing sounding records made with stock digi set ups over the years. Hell, there were great sounding albums done on the old 16bit 888s.
Old 22nd February 2009
  #64
Gear Nut
 

Yes, that's true. There were also amazing sounding records done on tape. But now, we're talking about different technology. I guess when tape was used a lot, there was discussion concerning tape quality and so on...

My point of view is that if the converter doesn't modify the sound, then it's ok. The thing is that even if great sounding stuff was made on 888, maybe it could have been much better on other converters.

Also, I think that what you call great record refers to great artists. My opinion is that Mix system is almost as great as HD without ADC. BUT, I'd just like to know if when you are summing more than 32 tracks or 59 inputs on the mix bus, then the 24 bits dithering sounds worst than LE which seems to be 32 bits floating all the way like all others DAW.

I'm surprised there's nothing to be heard on the forum... It would make things much more clear for everyone.
Old 22nd February 2009
  #65
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markus enochson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
not yet - but i did offer to do one!! I might do a "summing" test this week actually. stay in touch !!
did you get around to do the test?
Old 22nd February 2009
  #66
I´m also curious to hear this test.....
Old 23rd February 2009
  #67
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Nothing new?
Old 23rd February 2009
  #68
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wow....and around we go....

I like the 888|24's and my Apogee converters I also have an LE system and 2" tape....No one element makes or breaks the sound, plus it all ends up on mp3.....hehe
Old 24th February 2009
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skylabfilmpop View Post
B) you are limited to a G4 computer, OS 10.3.4 and PT 6.4 which means hard to find plug ins that will even install much less work!!
it's not that hard to find plug-ins for mix, in fact there are a few threads here that list them. also, you can go to 10.3.9 with pt 6.4.1.
Old 24th February 2009
  #70
Gear Head
 

If you had a Mix system and wondering if it to keep it that's one thing, but at this stage, with the age of the hardware, and consistent lack of support from Digi, you're better sticking with 00x or better getting away from a Digi solution altogether if you're adamantly against going HD.
Old 24th February 2009
  #71
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PlugHead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magellin View Post
If you had a Mix system and wondering if it to keep it that's one thing, but at this stage, with the age of the hardware, and consistent lack of support from Digi, you're better sticking with 00x or better getting away from a Digi solution altogether if you're adamantly against going HD.
I tend to agree with this - UNLESS you land a complete turnkey system for peanuts, and you have NO intention of keeping current AND you like the 'old-school' nature of a 'vintage' ProTools system (that's ME!!!)
Old 25th February 2009
  #72
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ok animals, i've done the comparison.

a reminder: this is pt 6.4.1 on mix hardware vs pt m-powered 7.3.1

with 24 tracks, the mixes null

with 61 tracks (37 of them blank and bearing in mind that m-powered only allows 48 at once) the mixes null and also null with the 24 track versions.

with 65 tracks (41 of them blank) the mix system ****s out a crazily distorted mix, while the m-powered one is exactly the same as before, so no nulling here.

this is rather confusing as earlier posts in the thread say that once you go over 59 tracks on mix hardware things go very slightly awry, but what i'm seeing is a falling off the edge of the earth at anything over 64 tracks on mix...

anyway, god knows what's going on, but links to the files are below if you want to try and work it out (24bit wavs on rapidshare). you can also ask questions if you like, questions like "gee pjplayer, that's an amazing song, would you mind if i declared it the best song ever?"

24 tracks pt mix
24 tracks pt m-powered

65 tracks pt mix
65 tracks pt m-powered
Old 25th February 2009
  #73
Gear Nut
 

Thank you very much, this is much appreciated!

I can't check the files right away but I will asap. Also, something interesting is that Mix system is limited to 64 tracks, insn't it?

Maybe I'm wrong, but how come you used 65 tracks if the Mix system limits is set to 64? Maybe voices count is a different thing?

I'm still curious to hear LE over 48 tracks with the MP toolkit.
Old 25th February 2009
  #74
Gear Addict
 

pt mix is limited to 64 simultaneous voices, as far as i can tell. so as long as you've got less than 64 things going on at once the dae can dynamically assign spare voices to tracks. i've never got anywhere near 64 tracks in my projects though so i've never tested it, but i think this is what happens.
Old 25th February 2009
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brahamnesik View Post
Yes, that's true. There were also amazing sounding records done on tape. But now, we're talking about different technology. I guess when tape was used a lot, there was discussion concerning tape quality and so on...

My point of view is that if the converter doesn't modify the sound, then it's ok. The thing is that even if great sounding stuff was made on 888, maybe it could have been much better on other converters.
I agree that it is always best to use the best tools available to you, but when ever people chime in saying things like 888/24s suck. I like to chime in with a reality check. They are not amazing, but they do not suck. There have been sonically stunning albums made with 888/24s. This would not be possible with converters that suck. Could the great sounding 888 albums have been slightly better with better converters? Sure. But if the 888s completely sucked as some people like to say, then everything that gets played out of them would sound bad.
Old 25th February 2009
  #76
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I recently looked at getting rid of my old mix system. I kicked the tires of the 002/BLA for awhile and ended up just keeping my mix system and getting some new mics and an API A2D to clock my older converter.

I also got an analog board. I feel confident I did the right things. I wanted better sounds from my system and I think I did more to upgrade my tracks/mixes in keeping my mix system and upgrading my outboard.

Also picked up a Summit MPC100A...bass sounds are happenin.

Old 25th February 2009
  #77
Gear Nut
 

Yes, maybe we should less focus on the software side and better spend time to try mic, pre's and placement.

Also, I'm sure the 888/24 are not that bad. I mean it's not night and day, whatever you put in is what you get out. I tried them out and never felt it adds much color if at all to the signal.

But I have to say that the clock is not that great! There was a great improvement using an external clock, at least for me. I have the impression that the stock 002 converters are not as good as the 888/24.

Correct me if I'm wrong...
Old 25th February 2009
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brahamnesik View Post
But I have to say that the clock is not that great! There was a great improvement using an external clock, at least for me.
i've heard this before, but i thought it was generally agreed that you can't improve the sound of a convertor by using an external clock. the only time you should use one is if you need to sync more than one interface.

in general though, i'm fairly sure that none of this really matters and i might do a 882 (16 bit) vs 888 (24 bit) A/D test to check.
Old 3rd January 2010
  #79
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I had a G4-LogicPro-DA-16x (outs)-Summingbox-Rosetta200 (in). It was pretty well soundin workstation. But Logic Pro 7 on a G4 was reeeaaaalyyyyy sloooowwww .

I was stuck on a very good sounding DAW but in the other hand a awkward rig.

I just sold the summing box the apogees and purchased and SBS expansion with 5 cards, and one 888/24. I'm really conviced it is a jump for me. The plugins sounds really well and the session are so smooth, now i can make a big jump from the start of the song to the end in miliseconds.....it is rock stable!. The graphics drawing are solid and fast. My G4 looks like a joung teeager dancing, it perform Protools like a New 8 core Mac. For me the sound is really good. Maybe worse than i had with Apogee but.......

I CAN WORK NOW!!!!!!

Only a few years ago all industry said it was a Winner set up, Sure the HD is better. But how many goodsounding commercial releases was created on this daw?.........A LOT
Old 3rd January 2010
  #80
I have to say you have balls to put money on a rig like that

Great it's working with you...


Quote:
Originally Posted by OberHeim-Kenobi View Post
I had a G4-LogicPro-DA-16x (outs)-Summingbox-Rosetta200 (in). It was pretty well soundin workstation. But Logic Pro 7 on a G4 was reeeaaaalyyyyy sloooowwww .

I was stuck on a very good sounding DAW but in the other hand a awkward rig.

I just sold the summing box the apogees and purchased and SBS expansion with 5 cards, and one 888/24. I'm really conviced it is a jump for me. The plugins sounds really well and the session are so smooth, now i can make a big jump from the start of the song to the end in miliseconds.....it is rock stable!. The graphics drawing are solid and fast. My G4 looks like a joung teeager dancing, it perform Protools like a New 8 core Mac. For me the sound is really good. Maybe worse than i had with Apogee but.......

I CAN WORK NOW!!!!!!

Only a few years ago all industry said it was a Winner set up, Sure the HD is better. But how many goodsounding commercial releases was created on this daw?.........A LOT
Old 3rd January 2010
  #81
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Stitch333's Avatar
 

RE: 888 external clocking:

You don't need a Big Clear Antelope external unubtanium driven clock for 888's.
Aardsyncs are, literally, pennies now-a-days.
It WILL make a difference.
I know this for fact and from experience.

Don't take my word for it - Spend your Tuesday afternoon beer and crack money on an ol' Aardsync, plug it in and listen...

Cheers!
Old 3rd January 2010
  #82
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Stitch333's Avatar
 

sorry to hyjack for a sec, but I think it is on topic:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louie View Post
Not true, I run Waves Diamonds, Waves API, Waves SSL plug-ins on my mix system without any problems and I can pile a **** load of them.
Waves SSL and API used on MIX TDM running 6.4.1cs4?
I haven't heard that...
Can anyone confirm MIX TDM will run on the early G5s as well?
What is the fastest computer possible for a MIX TDM rig?
Old 13th January 2010
  #83
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tombak's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stitch333 View Post
sorry to hyjack for a sec, but I think it is on topic:


Waves SSL and API used on MIX TDM running 6.4.1cs4?
I haven't heard that...
I'd like to hear more about this one!
I just discovered that Eventide's Anthology I and II will work on a Mix System.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stitch333 View Post
Can anyone confirm MIX TDM will run on the early G5s as well?
What is the fastest computer possible for a MIX TDM rig?
Here's a thread on that subject.
Pro Tools Mix with PPC G5 (PCI) any ideas how?
Old 13th January 2010
  #84
Gear Nut
 

True! I run Waves SSL, API, CLA... they're all running on a Mix system. Just one issue, surface control mapping.

Check out by yourself with demos on your system.

Mix is a killer rig. You lack the newer Pro Tools features like elastic Time and stuff but still, 6.4.1 is very usuable. I run an 8 version as well and still like the 6!
Old 13th January 2010
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brahamnesik View Post
True! I run Waves SSL, API, CLA... they're all running on a Mix system. Just one issue, surface control mapping.

Check out by yourself with demos on your system.

Mix is a killer rig. You lack the newer Pro Tools features like elastic Time and stuff but still, 6.4.1 is very usuable. I run an 8 version as well and still like the 6!
That is superb news for all of us mix users left in the shadows.
Out of curiosity which version of the Waves are you running?
Old 13th January 2010
  #86
Gear Nut
 

Yes, I've been using Waves stuff for years. Actually, you can run every versions. I was concerned about the latest 7 versions for cla so I asked the tech support. They told me that their compatibilty list is based on systems they've actually tested and this doesn't mean that it won't work on older systems. They simply can't tell you if it's going to work and if it's reliable. So their advice is the same old "try out the demo and if it's working then go for it!".

The only downside I forgot to mention because it's not important for me is that since the ssl stuff you can only run them as rtas.

I'm using a mix of 5 and 7 version (for the cla). I've demoed some other plugins with version 6 as well and it was running just fine.

Also one thing important to remember is that the control mapping is messed up from version 6 I think. The older SSl Api and V are perfect though.
Old 13th January 2010
  #87
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OK, I will try BUT: is it a G4 or a G5 you have these waves running with MIX?
Old 13th January 2010
  #88
Gear Nut
 

PC!
Old 14th January 2010
  #89
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tombak's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brahamnesik View Post
PC!
You said the P word.

Ok I'm going to do a little more research and likely give this a try tonight on my aging system. Though I am only running OS 10.3.4 on a G4, I may have to update to 10.3.9. Apparently it's stable for most Mix G4 users but I have to admit I'm a bit weary to do it.

I'll report back on both fronts soon.
Old 20th January 2010
  #90
LMS
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mix vs hd

i have a mix 3 system with a 7 slot expansion chassis. I track in 6.4.1 and mix in 5.1.3 because of the plugs i have. I do a ton of outboard mixing but still use alot of plugs as well.

delimma is that i am considering a big jump to a commercial space and i do have a killer mojo console with tons of outboard gear, but if i can get a trnkey hd3 system for under 5k, man it is a tough call to not jump on that.

most of the plugs i own that are ilok based are rtas, so that does not do well for me with a mix system, however tha would slam with the g5 and hd3.

i may jump on the hd thing, but mix peeps, talk me out of it. or give me some insight on an expanded version of mix. I could jump on a couple of mix cards to get me to a mix5 system with 3 888's and the apogee ad8000se i have for 32 i/o.

thoughts?
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