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And what, in your opinion, are the best DI and Re-amp devices you've used?
Old 21st November 2002
  #1
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Ol' Betsey's Avatar
And what, in your opinion, are the best DI and Re-amp devices you've used?

C'mon I need some DI's.

Give me some hints. Give me some clues. Not your bog standard DI's but the one's that make you go OHHHHH...

External boxes. Line In on pre-amps. You name it, give me somethin' to look for.

I WANT A PUCKA DI!!!

R.
Old 21st November 2002
  #2
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Knox's Avatar
 

A Vipre. If that is too much to spend on a direct box . . . I'm pretty happy with my Avalon, though I don't know if it is the best or not.
Old 21st November 2002
  #3
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Ol' Betsey's Avatar
Dang boy. That was a quick response!

I've just been out drinkin' some beers and seein' some bands and TRYIN' to talk to some chicks (rather unsuccessfully I might add grudge) and haven't even had a chance to stumble around my room before someone tells me to plump $2000 on a DI!

Sheesh...

I need to go hang out somewhere else.

Where's the Behringer forum?

R.
Old 21st November 2002
  #4
Evil Twin

Eclair Enginering
Old 21st November 2002
  #5
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Ol' Betsey's Avatar
Yeah, I had a friend that was working on one of the REM albums and used an Evil Twin and a compressor by the same company. I think it was called something like the LA DI DO DO (!) or somethin'...

But he said that they were both absolutely AMAZING. Some of the best pieces he's ever used.

R.
Old 21st November 2002
  #6
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Knox's Avatar
 

When I first got the Avalon, I was really impressed with it. Since then I get bored with it. It has no personality, which I guess is good at times. It made me not want to buy anything else from Avalon. I like characters in people and gear. I hear the Evil Twin is the way to go.
Old 21st November 2002
  #7
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e-cue's Avatar
 

D.I. = Demeter Tube DI
Reamp = Little Labs PCP
Old 21st November 2002
  #8
Moderator emeritus
 

The Evil Twin is great, and so is the Radial Engineering J48. The J48 smoked everything else in the studio (except the Evil Twin, which is a completely different animal), including the Little Labs DI. The other one that comes to mind (though you're gonna yell about the price again) is the Great River NV. Way cool DI.

By the way, the Evil Twin is about $850 USD - check out the Mercenary website for more details. And the Eclair Engineering LA LA Limiter is too cool for words; I got to play with one a few years ago. I wish I could afford one.
Old 21st November 2002
  #9
Smile

Oi have the Evil Twin and PCP. Oim verwy vewy happy.
PCP beats ET on occaision on bass so it's allways worth a quick shoot out on a 'per song' basis.

Dunno the Demiter but I know them to be a great brand. I want one of their spring reverbs....I heard that at Sonic Youths studio.. Dual mono...!!!
Old 21st November 2002
  #10
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groundcontrol's Avatar
 

Yeah the Radial stuff is mostly excellent, especially for the price! A pair of their Jensen passives are also pretty handy to have lying around a studio. I even use them for reamping. Also had good sucess recently with an Aguilar tube di on bass. I have to try an evil twin but it's unheard of around here.
Old 21st November 2002
  #11
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Ol' Betsey's Avatar
Phew... That's better. I can see now!

Anyway. Yeah, I was thinking about the Great River NV. Maybe the single channel. Everyone says the DI on those pre-amps is great. Is the single channel shipping yet?

Which Demeter are you guys using? That spring reverb looks way cool.

Am wondering if the IBP has a DI on it. Have to look that up.

And in what way do you feel the Evil Twin such a different animal? Can you explain? I imagine it's pretty colored.

I have to admit, $800 - $1000 on a DI does, on first glance, SEEM a lot of money but I would love to have at least one really amazing DI. Especially for bass. I've never really been happy with my bass DI sounds. I've recorded some pretty nice bass guitars, quality-wise, but the sound has never really rocked me.

The IBP and a great DI are definitely top of my "bread and butter" list.
Old 21st November 2002
  #12
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subspace's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by Ol' Betsey

Anyway. Yeah, I was thinking about the Great River NV. Maybe the single channel. Everyone says the DI on those pre-amps is great. Is the single channel shipping yet?

And in what way do you feel the Evil Twin such a different animal? Can you explain? I imagine it's pretty colored.

I have to admit, $800 - $1000 on a DI does, on first glance, SEEM a lot of money but I would love to have at least one really amazing DI. Especially for bass. I've never really been happy with my bass DI sounds. I've recorded some pretty nice bass guitars, quality-wise, but the sound has never really rocked me.
Here's a simple question for those using the DIs built into preamps. What do you do for an isolated loop out to run into an amp? They're fine if your only cutting direct, but 90% of the time I want an amp miked up as well. I'd really like to see a pre with isolated 1/4" ins and outs. Is there a simple way to do this without messing with the pick-ups loading characteristics? I'd actually commit to leaving my pre in the tracking room for shorter mic cable runs if one side was in use as a splitter/DI.
A side note on the Evil Twin, you can wire a mic transformer before the 1/4" input to use it as a mic pre with high output mics. Might be easier to justify the cost to yourself thinking of it as a mic pre/DI...
Old 21st November 2002
  #13
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blackcatdigi's Avatar
For straight bass DI we use either the ADL or Groove Tubes units.
If we're micing an amp (which I usually like to do) we'll use the Alan Smart unit split out to an Ampeg Portaflex. I never hear anyone talk about the AS unit, but I really like it for di/mic'd splits and multiple amp usage. Cool for use in the control room out to multiple rigs. Info @ the Mercenary site.

Of course, the Spider rocks pretty hard as a bass DI as well.
Old 21st November 2002
  #14
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

dont forget the valvotronics DI. pretty damn sweet.
Old 21st November 2002
  #15
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Knox's Avatar
 

Obviously . . . . I was half joking about the Vipre, though it sounds damn good on the direct input. I do take a "thru" out of the Avalon going to a bass amp . . . . (sometimes I get a ground hum though) . . . . . . which as you say, you obviously can't do with Vipre.
Old 21st November 2002
  #16
Moderator emeritus
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Ol' Betsey


And in what way do you feel the Evil Twin such a different animal? Can you explain? I imagine it's pretty colored.
The Evil Twin puts out line level. With a typical DI (the Radial, the Little Labs, or almost every other DI), the function of the box is to convert the incoming guitar level (and impedance) into a mic level (and impedance). So you still need to use a preamp of some sort with it. The Evil Twin doesn't require that - you can go straight to tape at +4 (or higher).

WHen I'm called to play on sesions, I take the ET and a mono Manley Vari-Mu. This allows me to bypass the console and any processing the engineer would 'normally' put on bass.

And It's not so much that the ET is 'colored' as much as it is a huge sound. Well, I guess that IS colored...
Old 21st November 2002
  #17
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blackcatdigi's Avatar
Sorry, OT post:

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Martin

WHen I'm called to play on sesions, I take the ET and a mono Manley Vari-Mu. This allows me to bypass the console and any processing the engineer would 'normally' put on bass.
Hhhmm. Mono Vari-Mu, eh? I thought the CL1B was 'standard kit' for all you bass playing nashvegas session cats...

I've never seen the mono vers... Does it use the 6386 or the T-Bar mod?
Old 21st November 2002
  #18
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ol' Betsey
[B]
Which Demeter are you guys using?

** I think they only make one tube DI. I don't count mic pres as DI's unless they have a loop out.

Am wondering if the IBP has a DI on it. Have to look that up.

** It does and it sounds pretty good.

I have to admit, $800 - $1000 on a DI does, on first glance, SEEM a lot of money but I would love to have at least one really amazing DI. Especially for bass. I've never really been happy with my bass DI sounds. I've recorded some pretty nice bass guitars, quality-wise, but the sound has never really rocked me.

** If the bass sounds like crap look at the player rather then the DI. The "best" DI I have is a BSS which isn't all that different then a Countryman and it's fine. I can get all the color I want by plugging it into a different mic pre. Then again, maybe you've got more money to spend then I do.
Old 21st November 2002
  #19
Moderator emeritus
 

Quote:
Originally posted by blackcatdigi
Sorry, OT post:

Hhhmm. Mono Vari-Mu, eh? I thought the CL1B was 'standard kit' for all you bass playing nashvegas session cats...

I've never seen the mono vers... Does it use the 6386 or the T-Bar mod?
Well, for years, I carried a Demeter Bass pre and a CL-1B. With a rack mount tuner, a power strip and a Mor Me box (essentially a headphone box with two inputs for the user), that was an 8 space rack. Since I changed to the new setup, it's a 4 space rack with the ET in my cord case. And since my 8 space is a lid-over case, it saves me about 50 pounds.

If I wasn't quite so lazy, I'd go ahead and keep the 8 space for outside sessions, but change preamps and as the urge hits - the ET and a Vari-Mu, or an NV and the Tube Tech, or a 2108 and the LA-2A or a Trakker... But I don't want to have to pull stuff out of the studio racks every time I go into town...

The Mono Vari-Mu is a few years old, so I bet it's a 6386. I just got my stereo one back yesterday; I'll be interested in seeing what the T Bar mod does to the sound.
Old 21st November 2002
  #20
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Knox's Avatar
 

Dave . . . You Nashville guys are so funny . . . You go from session to session with these great racks and hand the engineer one cord to plug in somewhere. Everytime I have ever done a session with a top Nashville session guy, it's been like that (not that I have done much Nashville). I would think . . . "oh man this guy is not going to sound good or be open to change cause I KNOW he is stuck with this ONE kind of sound since . . . . . he just handed me this cord" . . but everytime I have been wrong. It just makes life easier doesn't it?
Old 21st November 2002
  #21
Gear Maniac
 
recorderman's Avatar
 

I've never used the evil twin. But I have a LittleLabs multi-Z DI (great on fender precision's, the Multi-Z impedence matches so as to not load down the passive pickups). It is also line level out...although I still run it through a neve pre to get the neve bottom end color. The IBP's are great also, the pair I have have DI and reamp cunctions although i haven't used them for that yet.
And last but not least I have sn original "ReAmp" that i use, althougth the next time I reamp I'm giving the first call to the IBP's.
I wish i had a Vipre (...snivell....)
Old 21st November 2002
  #22
Moderator emeritus
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Knox
Dave . . . You Nashville guys are so funny . . . You go from session to session with these great racks and hand the engineer one cord to plug in somewhere. Everytime I have ever done a session with a top Nashville session guy, it's been like that (not that I have done much Nashville). I would think . . . "oh man this guy is not going to sound good or be open to change cause I KNOW he is stuck with this ONE kind of sound since . . . . . he just handed me this cord" . . but everytime I have been wrong. It just makes life easier doesn't it?
And the coolest thing about it is that if you don't like the sound, all of the guys I know (well, all of the bass players, anyway) are happy to try whatever you want. Really, it's not the rack that makes the sound - it's the player. The rack is kind of like eye candy to help lead the engineer to thinking that he doesn't need to screw around with what the bassist gives him (which is really a good thing in this day of home studios and less than stellar engineers).

But you probably noticed that whoever you hired brought in anywhere from about 3 basses up to 20 (depending on whether it's a master and whether the label was paying cartage). If a guy brings in 3 basses, it doesn't mean that he only has three sounds - he has the same unlimited number of sounds that the guy with to basses brings in. It's just that those sounds are in a bit narrower range...

If I go into a studio and the engineer wants to plug me into his BA6A or his La-2A and not use my compressor, I won't argue with him. But if I walked into a studio and all the engineer has to use on bass is a 3630, I can give him a more musical option. (And I've learned to discuss quite convincingly on that point, after the first time it happened...).

Anyway, most of the guys here are flexible.
Old 21st November 2002
  #23
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Ol' Betsey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by Jay Kahrs

** If the bass sounds like crap look at the player rather then the DI. The "best" DI I have is a BSS which isn't all that different then a Countryman and it's fine. I can get all the color I want by plugging it into a different mic pre. Then again, maybe you've got more money to spend then I do.
Crap? Did I say crap? I don't think I've ever really settled for a "crap" DI sound (at least I hope not), I just haven't found a sound that's really rocked my world yet. Unfortunately I don't have the plethora of outboard pre's that you probably have but what I've used so far (generally the onboard pre's on a VR, 2520, Avalon, MP1A and the line-ins on the last 1272 I had) have left me wanting.

Fair point though. And I know what you mean, you can't polish a turd.

Who knows, maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree here... maybe all the players I've worked with are crap? Or maybe all the players you work with are so amazing that you could plug them into a Mackie and get it sounding like Dave's rig?

(Hmmm. Did I sense some condescension in your last paragraph? If I'm wrong, my apologies.)

But yes, I probably do have more money to spend on a DI than you. Considering I don't have to build the room, and that we already have a decent desk, 2" tape machine and a workable mic locker, I can afford to spend my money on bells and whistles.

Quote:
Dave Martin
And It's not so much that the ET is 'colored' as much as it is a huge sound. Well, I guess that IS colored...
Cheers Dave, I like huge.

R.
Old 21st November 2002
  #24
Moderator emeritus
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Ol' Betsey


(Hmmm. Did I sense some condescension in your last paragraph? If I'm wrong, my apologies.)

Cheers Dave, I like huge.

R.
Hmm. Condescension in MY last paragraph? Possibly...

But seriously, the fact of the matter is that there are some truly incompetent people trying to be 'engineers', in Nashville, just like everywhere else. Most of them have home studios, but there are some folks working in professional facilities who shouldn't be allowed within miles of an audio signal. I'm sure that no one on this forum would fit that decription, but nevertheless, those are the guys who can just kill you - not only your sound, but any chance at all of having a successful and musical session.

If it was Jay's condescension that you were referring to rather than mine, carry on...
Old 22nd November 2002
  #25
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Tim L's Avatar
 

The best 'all purpose' DI I've used is my Pendulum MDP-1a. It's got a pretty killer line/ instrument input section. My favorite device for bass gtr is my SansAmp Bass Driver. As with most gear some people love the thing, some people hate it. As far as re-amps go the only one I've ever used is John Cuniberti's Reamp so I can't really compare it to anything but I do like the unit very much... it does what it does very well. Though I haven't used one yet I have the feeling the Little Labs Redeye is probably a killer "Little" box (sorry, couldn't resist) especially considering one box goes both ways.
Old 22nd November 2002
  #26
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Ol' Betsey's Avatar
Hi Dave,

Were you being condescending? I honestly thought you were being helpful.

Jeez, I guess I DO have a lot to learn, don't I?

None of my post except "Cheers Dave" (and that was a truthful "Thank You") was directed at you. But maybe it should have been?

To come in with a line like that (which I can't be bothered to quote) make's me wonder how sincere ANY of these posts are.

I don't really know where to start. Some of the posts on these forums amaze me.

To be honest, with the exception of a VERY FEW of the people that post on here, I wouldn't say that anybody is even approaching "mastery" at the art of production (and the ones that are really rather great at what they do are the least pretentious of the bunch).

So please give WHOEVER you were refering to a break, ok? I reckon just about everyone here has ****ed up a few times while they were starting out. It's called learning. And unfortunately some of these people continue to **** up and make a career out of it.

Your right, I would hope that we don't have any career-based ****-ups on this site too. I believe that these are the ones you're probably talking about. The ones that don't really give a **** about how things turn out just as long as they're paid. The one's that say that they can do ANYTHING (from Rap to Country) for $100 a day just so they can get the business. (For your information, I just passed on a major-label Metal album because it would have broken my heart to not do justice to the band. And now I (!) have a studio to book!).

If we do have these people lurking around here, then I'm ****ed cos I value everybody's judgement here. I don't necessarily follow all of the advice that I hear but I listen and give credit to all that take the time to post.

So before I go friggin' mental and think yer all bastards (heh ), I'll just leave it at that, ok?

And what does that have to do with DI's anyway?

R.

P.S. I still want to check out the Evil Twin. Cheers Dave
Old 22nd November 2002
  #27
Little Labs
 
littlelabs's Avatar
 

Hey Dave,
The muti Z Hi Z position and the PCP have 15dB of gain, my Ibp 12-30dB gain on them, I'd have call that Line level (+4dB) on anything but the lowest output instruments. Dis with a mic level out (my redeye for example and any Jensen passive DI) lose 15 to 20dB of gain, thats what makes it a mic level DI. I bet your multi Z would sound better than that nice dfegad canadian thing if you ran it line in.
heh
yo yo
all da best
jonathan
Old 22nd November 2002
  #28
Moderator emeritus
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Ol' Betsey


(SNIP for brevity)

So please give WHOEVER you were refering to a break, ok? I reckon just about everyone here has ****ed up a few times while they were starting out. It's called learning. And unfortunately some of these people continue to **** up and make a career out of it.
...
Don't worry - We're ALL nice guys - the bastards hang out in another forum...

I wasn't referring to anyone on this list. There are a few home studios in Nashville where I simply won't work - it's not worth the headaches of dealing with the idiot behind the console. And I was thinking of a couple of specific engineers here in Nashville who shouldn't be allowed near a microphone, much less a console. But the whole idea of carrying a rack kind of started as a way to deal with engineers like those (that isn't as big a problem now as it used to be, when a bunch of the 'B' rooms in town had an in house engineer, by the way).

One thing common to pretty much everyone on this forum is that we're working to improve on the last project that we did, either by picking up tips that will improve a tracking session, a mix session, or simply to learn about some of the other toys available. The guys I was referring to don't have that much enthusiasm for the task - they're simply there to get a paycheck.

But don't mind me - when I've got a mountain of work to do, I tend to go online to ignore it. My last post was made when I should have been getting on with the 18 charts I had to write today for a project that starts next week.
Old 22nd November 2002
  #29
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

ya know, i think i would of died and gone to heaven in a bassist, or a vocalist came in with their line in to the recorder. i mean dont think i wouldnt fully check out EXACTLY what they had and set at [for learning purposes and shop talk]... but if i had a tone-to-go... ****, less i have to think about. that would be GREAT. and it would show dedication to their tone on their part. definately a respect thing happening.

i guess to often i get people who dont even have a ****ing clue to their tone and ultimately makes me shape their tones live before i even have to mic anything up... starting at the source.
Old 22nd November 2002
  #30
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Ol' Betsey's Avatar
Yeah, and don't mind me.

I shoulda been in bed. I always look for a fight when I'm sleepy!

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