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003 Enough Inputs for 2 ADATs? Control Surfaces
Old 10th September 2007
  #1
Here for the gear
 

003 Enough Inputs for 2 ADATs?

I'm pondering the jump to PT-LE and I'm trying to figure out the right interface and I/O options. I like the 003 (control surface, not rack version), but I can't figure out if I will be regretting the lack of inputs. I have a bunch of material on 16 tracks of ADAT (2 old blackface units) and I'm wondering how I'll be able to transfer those sessions into PT through the 003. From the literature (and other posts), it looks like the ADAT lightpipe input on the 003 gets me 8 channels (one ADAT unit's worth). How do I transfer the other 8 channels into PT digitally and fully synched with the first 8? Am I missing something (perfectly possible, since I am a noob to this computer-based recording thing). Advice? Thanks.
Old 10th September 2007
  #2
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loujudson's Avatar
Get the Profire Lightbridge and Protools Mpowered. You'll have 32 ADAT channels and the same PTLE functionality. Other wise, with 002 or 3 you will have the trnafer them 8 at a time and manually sunc them up - not hard but takes practice.

Lou
Old 10th September 2007
  #3
Here for the gear
 

Thanks, Lou. The Lightbridge looks like a cool unit. I have a (perhaps irrational) desire for knobs and faders, though. Is there an 003-type control surface that will work with M-Powered? Like the Digi 8-control or something? Or perhaps a Lightbridge-type device that can connect between the ADATs and the 003?
Old 10th September 2007
  #4
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flickerman View Post
... Is there an 003-type control surface that will work with M-Powered? Like the Digi 8-control or something?...
What about the new Mackie Control Universal Pro? Same basic setup as the original MCU but definitely seems to be built better from what I can tell. You should get the control you seek without a ton of hiccups, and you get the nice Penny+Giles faders, which, if memory serves me correctly, are going to be better than what comes on a Command 8.
Old 10th September 2007
  #5
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666666's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
Get the Profire Lightbridge and Protools Mpowered. You'll have 32 ADAT channels and the same PTLE functionality.
Stop the presses!!!!

Are you saying that this new Digidesign M-Powered Pro Tools LE software can be run with a 32 I/O interface???

Does this mean that the M-Powered PTLE software can record (from the analog domain) and/or playback (to the analog domain) 32 simultaneous tracks of audio???

If so, are there any sonic quality issues to be concerned about with this set-up? Is the Profire Lighbridge a solid piece that will not "harm" audio quality in any way? Any issues with clocking, etc?

In sum, is this new M-Powered Pro Tools LE system with 32 lightpipe I/O via the Lightbridge essentially a 32 I/O professional Pro Tools system with the ability to spit 32 tracks of audio individually out through 32 DAs to analog at the same time? (Sorry for the redundancy, but I want to make sure I'm getting my question across clearly.)

I've been struggling with the Digi-001 I/O for years... I mix out of the box and require at least 24 analog outs... but with the 001, I've been dealing with a max of 18 I/O, and to make matters worse, of the 18, 8 come from the 001 box, 8 come from a different outboard converter, and 2 from another outboard converter... and the latencies do not match between the different converter units which causes some time delay / phasing issues between certain tracks... always a headache. With this M-Powered set-up, can I now take a 32 track Pro Tools LE mix and send 32 tracks out into ANALOG simultaneously to be mixed on an analog console?????? As well, with 4 ADAT lightpipe outs, I assume I can use ANY high-end 8-channel AD/DA converter units that have an ADAT I/O... like a Prism ADA-8XR, Mytek, etc?

I checked out the website, I did not find answers to my questions. I was not able to download the pdf manuals... did not work for some reason. Any info, comments, reviews of this set-up would be greatly appreciated.

Pro Tools LE & M-Powered

M-AUDIO - ProFire Lightbridge
Old 10th September 2007
  #6
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666666's Avatar
DAMMIT!!! I just found on the M-Audio sight:

"Pro Tools M-Powered currently supports a maximum of 18 simultaneous inputs and outputs."

So that answers my question. Oh well, knew it was too good to be true. Not sure why I assumed that M-Powered PTLE would have 32 analog I/O just because the Lightbridge had it... wishful thinking I guess. It's been years of trying to find a way to beat the system, but still cant be done. I've started to look hard at non-Pro Tools options for this reason, but would prefer to stay with Pro Tools if possible.

However, a big advantage to the M-Powered set up would still be the ability to use TWO identical 8-channel hi-end converter units, as opposed to a 003 plus some other outboard unit, where latencies would not match, etc. So, another final question:

With the M-Powered PTLE system and Lightbridge, you could run two outboard high quality 8-channel AD and/or DA units at the same time... and an extra 2-channel unit via the SPDIF pigtail - for a total of 18 I/O? If so, this would still be worth it.
Old 10th September 2007
  #7
Gear Nut
 
dkerins's Avatar
 

Currently, I am able to get 32IO in MPowered through my Lightbridge. I can't remember off hand which 7.3 update had the "error" put in by Digi that allows this to work. Search the forum, there is a whole thread on people discussing this.
Old 10th September 2007
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
davenutz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 666666 View Post
DAMMIT!!! I just found on the M-Audio sight:

"Pro Tools M-Powered currently supports a maximum of 18 simultaneous inputs and outputs."

So that answers my question. Oh well, knew it was too good to be true. Not sure why I assumed that M-Powered PTLE would have 32 analog I/O just because the Lightbridge had it... wishful thinking I guess. It's been years of trying to find a way to beat the system, but still cant be done. I've started to look hard at non-Pro Tools options for this reason, but would prefer to stay with Pro Tools if possible.

However, a big advantage to the M-Powered set up would still be the ability to use TWO identical 8-channel hi-end converter units, as opposed to a 003 plus some other outboard unit, where latencies would not match, etc. So, another final question:

With the M-Powered PTLE system and Lightbridge, you could run two outboard high quality 8-channel AD and/or DA units at the same time... and an extra 2-channel unit via the SPDIF pigtail - for a total of 18 I/O? If so, this would still be worth it.


the 18i/o is a software limitation that is imposed by digidesign for bad reasons.
there was a certain release of PT-Mpowered that allowed 32i/o by accident.
Old 10th September 2007
  #9
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gainstages's Avatar
i've transfered tracks from 2 adats simultaneously before. 1 set was transfered digitally, the other set was transferred via the analog inputs. i was a little nervous about doing it, but it worked out great.
Old 12th September 2007
  #10
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uncle duncan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 666666 View Post
I've started to look hard at non-Pro Tools options for this reason, but would prefer to stay with Pro Tools if possible.
A Motu 2408 with the PCI 424 card will give you three banks of adat I/O, with one bank of 8 channels switchable to analog. (The 424 PCI card lets you use up to 4 interfaces, giving you 92 channel I/O.) I transfer 24 tracks from a HD24 into DP in realtime via adat lightpipe no problem. Plus, the motu gear supports adat sync, if you want to slave the DAW to the adats.

I really think the format monopoly PT enjoys is nearing an end. Universal acceptance of the AAF format is just around the corner. The AAF format will allow native DAW users the option to save in a format PT can open, and vice versa. When that happens, people will be buying native systems for the features, and PTLE systems will be looked at with the same nostalgia we associate with typewriters.
Old 12th September 2007
  #11
Here for the gear
 

Thanks

This was my first post on GS, and I just wanted to thank everyone for the input. Sure is fun to watch where these threads lead....
Old 12th September 2007
  #12
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jbuehler's Avatar
 

There are also ADAT patch bays that you could look into. This way it may be easier to get all 16 ADAT tracks into PTLE through the 003. It will take a second to route but it would be fairly painless.
Old 12th September 2007
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuehler View Post
There are also ADAT patch bays that you could look into. This way it may be easier to get all 16 ADAT tracks into PTLE through the 003. It will take a second to route but it would be fairly painless.
Yes, but they'd still need lining up. I think an ADAT patchbay is a little overspecced when unplugging one cable and plugging another in will do the same job.

Provided there's not something like a drumkit multimiked spread across the 2 ADATs, you shouldn't have a problem transferring individually then lining up manually. slaving the 003 to the adats using a Midi timepiece (which supports ADAT sync) or something is also possible - won't be sample accurate, but should be close enough.
Old 12th September 2007
  #14
Gear Guru
 

poor man's sync

here's a workaround that costs nothing and still gets all your tracks in digitally:

sync up your ADAT machines and split a mic signal to tracks 1, 9, 17 etc, A few seconds before the song begins, punch in a short sharp sound onto those tracks - I like to use one of those froggy clickers, but I suppose a cowbell or a clave would work just fine.

dump your ADAT tracks into the DAW via lightpipe 8 at a time, keep each pass grouped.

now zoom in and nudge each group until the identical information you just recorded on tracks 1, 9 17, etc. are lined up to sample accuracy.

I have found this to 'hold together' timing wise for at least several songs. It may work for the whole tape, I haven't tried that. If not, just repeat again at the beginning of the next tune.

If I were doing this every day, I might set up some kind of sync to lock the ADAT to, and run multiple passes that way, but I certainly would not spend money on 16 or 24 channels of lightpipe. At least not if transferring old tapes recorded on ADATs was the only reason I needed that many digital ins.

I mean we're talking ADATs here. We're talking your OLD songs, too. Put your $$ into the gear you need for the NEW songs and get your transfers done as simply and as cheaply as possible, that would be my philosophy.
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