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SM Pro Audio - M-Patch 2 Monitor Controllers
Old 9th January 2013
  #31
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skinnypete's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricF View Post
You cared enough about your quality of monitoring to spend $1000. Why throw that quality in the trash with a crappy controller?
Dude stop exaggerating lol. It's not even that bad. All that matters is that they used a good pot and that it's soldered well, right?
Old 9th January 2013
  #32
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skinnypete's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beau_mckee View Post
I've been using an easy workaround solution to the low volume issue with these units. Simply turn down the output volume from your sound card/ interface in your operating System or DAW, thus the the volume knob will need to be turned up a little higher which avoids the problem area.
I usually keep mine around 9-10 o'clock, around quarter volume. How low was yours set when you heard issues?
Old 9th January 2013
  #33
Lives for gear
 

I've been using an easy workaround solution to the low volume issue with these units. Simply turn down the output volume from your sound card/ interface in your operating System or DAW, thus the the volume knob will need to be turned up a little higher which avoids the problem area.
__________________


This will affect your bitrate .

Your soundcard software should be at unity gain.

Cheers
Old 9th January 2013
  #34
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickknack View Post
It affects frequency and transient response as well as stereo image. If I was truly on a budget and looking to get transparent volume control for speakers I would look at the ubk box or the spl boxes.

You may not be aware, but all active electronics color the sound in some way! Our Monitor Controllers do without active elements, thereby allowing audio signals to be attenuated transparently and without coloration.

As the marketing jargon states the m patch does not have active electronics so therefore is transparent. So this alone should not mask or smear your sound.

Anyway if you own this product you will know the difference.

Cheers

Cheers

There is a reason that all the very fancy controllers are active. It is to deal with the impedance problems induced by a purely passive designs. I am no electronic engineer but as I understand it a passive pot with a piece of cable following it forms a very basic low pass filter (somebody please correct me if I am wrong) The frequency of which is determined by the impedance of the pot, the position that the pot is in and the length and type of cable after the pot.

The idea of a passive controller is nice in "common sense theory" but doesn't work in actual theory.
Old 9th January 2013
  #35
Gear Head
 
Dr Venkman's Avatar
 

Yep, I use the Mpatch 2 every day. In between my audio interface and range of monitors. I have my main monitors fed by output 1, and then an avantone mixcube out of output 2 L (the mono sum switch is handy for this!). I then feed some little ****ty pc speakers out of the headphone out. 3 different references out of a little box!

edit - I've just remembered I actually had some problems with this when I originally bought it, the output 1 button crackled like mad and the volume was dipping, they fixed it for me pretty quickly though.
Old 9th January 2013
  #36
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i urge everyone who thinks it sounds transparent to put it off the signal path and listen to music when the speakers are directly connected to the soundcard. i cant believe that im the only one who thinks it really changes the sound in a bad way!
Old 9th January 2013
  #37
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OK, well it seems like you guys have a point about passive pots affecting the sound. I just remembered that that's what happens on a passive guitar or bass, that's why you always keep the volume pot all the way up. Makes sense.

It seems like SM-Pro is hip to the problem though. This is from the manual to the new M-Patch V2:

"The best way to setup the listening environment you are in is to have the MPatchV2 at full volume and then attenuate your speakers (or amp) to the maximum listening level."

I guess if I just start with my DAW at 0db (which I already do), crank M-Patch all the way up, and adjust the speakers to the max I would probably listen, it should be fine.

I have had the Gelelecs at 12 o'clock (they go from like 7 o'clock to 5 o'clock), and the M-Patch around 9 o'clock. If i change the Genelecs to 9 o'clock, and keep the M-Patch set higher, that should solve any issues, right?
Old 9th January 2013
  #38
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Svenarne's Avatar
 

I may be way wrong, but I though the volume knob on even a high-end stereo amp was just a passive attenuator...

Sent from my GT-I9300
Old 10th January 2013
  #39
Old 10th January 2013
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vasy100 View Post
Any idea where to get one in the US?
Old 10th January 2013
  #41
Gear Nut
 

MPATCH2 pot

Hi All,

A couple of things to consider here.
1. Cable length and what type of cable you are using between a passive controller and your Speaker. As you add more resistance (attenuate more) if you have a long cable, the cable capacitance will react with the resistance and you have a filter.
2. Mpatch2 (not v2) standard 2, has 4 resistors which need to work together, balanced stereo, so that is 4... there is always going to be SOME kind of difference in resistance between the 4 resistors, it is quoted at 2-3-4-5-% what ever it is.. then the HIGHER the resistance the more difference is going to occur. Although these are tested to the said tolerance I would measure this with a simple multimeter and see what the actual resistance difference is and if it is too high you need to swap the pot.
3. Mpatch V2, uses discrete resistors which are match, so even in high attenuation (low volume) the difference is the same as in Low attenuation (hi volume). As it is a switched attenuator.
Old 10th January 2013
  #42
Lives for gear
 

Hi All,

A couple of things to consider here.
1. Cable length and what type of cable you are using between a passive controller and your Speaker. As you add more resistance (attenuate more) if you have a long cable, the cable capacitance will react with the resistance and you have a filter.
2. Mpatch2 (not v2) standard 2, has 4 resistors which need to work together, balanced stereo, so that is 4... there is always going to be SOME kind of difference in resistance between the 4 resistors, it is quoted at 2-3-4-5-% what ever it is.. then the HIGHER the resistance the more difference is going to occur. Although these are tested to the said tolerance I would measure this with a simple multimeter and see what the actual resistance difference is and if it is too high you need to swap the pot.
3. Mpatch V2, uses discrete resistors which are match, so even in high attenuation (low volume) the difference is the same as in Low attenuation (hi volume). As it is a switched attenuator.


This post sounds like it is from the manufacturer. Thanks for the clarification.

I remember you vfxau from somewhere.

I own the Mpatch 2 and I think it is a solid piece of kit.

Cheers
Old 10th January 2013
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VFXAU View Post
Hi All,

A couple of things to consider here.
1. Cable length and what type of cable you are using between a passive controller and your Speaker. As you add more resistance (attenuate more) if you have a long cable, the cable capacitance will react with the resistance and you have a filter.
2. Mpatch2 (not v2) standard 2, has 4 resistors which need to work together, balanced stereo, so that is 4... there is always going to be SOME kind of difference in resistance between the 4 resistors, it is quoted at 2-3-4-5-% what ever it is.. then the HIGHER the resistance the more difference is going to occur. Although these are tested to the said tolerance I would measure this with a simple multimeter and see what the actual resistance difference is and if it is too high you need to swap the pot.
3. Mpatch V2, uses discrete resistors which are match, so even in high attenuation (low volume) the difference is the same as in Low attenuation (hi volume). As it is a switched attenuator.
I take this to mean that the V2 has fixed the issue of shifting stereo image at high attenuation settings. Is this correct?

Can anyone else verify that the V2 is improved in this regard?
Old 10th January 2013
  #44
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricF View Post
I take this to mean that the V2 has fixed the issue of shifting stereo image at high attenuation settings. Is this correct?

Can anyone else verify that the V2 is improved in this regard?
Because of this stuff they have now a interchangeable volume knob to a 12-step switch attenuator.
Old 10th January 2013
  #45
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skinnypete's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricF View Post
I take this to mean that the V2 has fixed the issue of shifting stereo image at high attenuation settings. Is this correct?

Can anyone else verify that the V2 is improved in this regard?
Does the "higher resistence" happen at lower or higher settings on the volume pot?

Sent from my Droid
Old 10th January 2013
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnypete View Post
Does the "higher resistence" happen at lower or higher settings on the volume pot?

Sent from my Droid
Lower volume = higher attenuation/resistance.
Old 10th January 2013
  #47
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skinnypete's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricF View Post
Lower volume = higher attenuation/resistance.
OK thanks, that's what i thought. So the weird sonic stuff that supposedly happens with the M-Patch 2 can be solved by simply keeping the knob at a higher setting, right?

Sent from my Droid
Old 10th January 2013
  #48
Gear Maniac
 
StringMike's Avatar
had the mpatch2 for a good while... It's OK, I didn't like the switches! It seemed too much of a hazzle to switch to mono and check on another set of speakers because the switches were so hard. It changes the sound quite a bit - noticed a big change when I bought a monitor station. Much better, but still not as good as directly from the converters. But to me, mixing is mostly a matter of knowing your loudspeakers and how the translate. I have a lot of high-end gear, but I use Genelec 1031As, NS-10s and my first HiFi speakers, that I bought when I was 16 (Dali 102s).
I'd say, spend the extra $ on the Monitor Station or the extra extra $$ on the Kush - it's not a Dangerous or a Crane Song, but you'll get a more reliable image and swithes that you'll love more in your workflow. At least if your setup is of decent quality.
Old 11th January 2013
  #49
Gear Head
 

New Old Sound Ltd. McONE

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricF View Post
Any idea where to get one in the US?

Direct from Evgeny in Israel. $256 shipped to Detroit. Great customer service, great product.
Old 11th January 2013
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crabgrass View Post
New Old Sound Ltd. McONE




Direct from Evgeny in Israel. $256 shipped to Detroit. Great customer service, great product.
Thanks!
Old 24th May 2013
  #51
Here for the gear
 

Got an M Patch 2 for sale if anyone's interested. PM me!

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showt...errerid=231232

Last edited by dflymusic; 24th May 2013 at 07:09 PM.. Reason: Clarification
Old 2nd January 2015
  #52
Gear Addict
"One potential disadvantage of passive designs is that their high frequency response can be compromised if you connect long output cables to them, since the capacitance of the cable, in conjunction with the resistance of the potentiometers, forms a simple low-pass filter whose response alters with the pot's position. However, I experienced no such problems using high quality low-capacitance cables, and didn't hear or measure any top-end droop at all."

SOS, Dec. 2006
Old 6th January 2015
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opium89 View Post
"One potential disadvantage of passive designs is that their high frequency response can be compromised if you connect long output cables to them, since the capacitance of the cable, in conjunction with the resistance of the potentiometers, forms a simple low-pass filter whose response alters with the pot's position. However, I experienced no such problems using high quality low-capacitance cables, and didn't hear or measure any top-end droop at all."

SOS, Dec. 2006
This is where high quality cable matters not by price but but spec and build. I used Belden 400f made to custom length with my MPatch 2. Transparent.!
Old 7th January 2015
  #54
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I just received mine, after 2 defective units..on the 1st two the lights would flash when I plugged it in(?!?) strictly for ****s and giggles I had them send a third, and it worked! I decided to keep it after they (my unnamed online musical instrument purveyor) threw in two years of precious metal coverage, so no foul...

I am still on an old digi002 so I hear the diff right away- mine was getting too crackly after 10 yrs. I am also using very short cable runs from 002 to Mpatch and to speakers. Just long enough to reach and be comfortable.
Good for the price- replaces and improves slightly on the 002's monitor section, and buys me time so I can save for either the Dangerous Source or DAC1.
Would I recommend it? I don't know- the switches are a bit tough to push in (I actually did like the ez push buttons on the 002's mon section), but for ME it's what I needed right now.. Also note that these have been sitting around since 2007.
Old 7th January 2015
  #55
Gear Addict
 

Mine M-Patch 2 has been good, but now, after 2 years, the sound almost disappears on the left side sometimes. If I mess around with the cables and buttons, the signal comes back, but it's annoying.
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