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Home mastering question, please help
Old 22nd August 2007
  #1
Gear Head
 
1945MF's Avatar
 

Home mastering question, please help

I'm using Digi003 rack + Apooge Big Ben,
I ussualy do mastering with protools 7.3 using insert in line 3-4 , 5-6 , 7-8
go to hw.
the question is
what is the true combinations?

(EQ Toft audio) to (TL Audio Tube preamps) to Amek (Neve Compressor) to (Waves L2 HW)

or

(EQ Toft audio) to Amek (Neve Compressor) to (TL Audio Tube preamps) to (Waves L2 HW)

Please help..

I mastering for dance music which need blasting gain till maximum..

thanks guys,

1945MF
Old 26th August 2007
  #2
Gear Head
 
1945MF's Avatar
 

well, nobody have any input?
i guess this a strange combinations..
Old 26th August 2007
  #3
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 

theres no rules, so you use it the way you like it.

i would start with the tube pres -> comp -> eq . mastering depends all on the mixdown. so this is really hard to say without hearing it. ms is a cool tool for mastering music which holds heavy musical elements in the center ( like a bassdrum ). but if you mix yourself as well, you prolly have the desired result in front of you already ?

tube pre usually gives the track some dirt and youll lose some low end,
comps suck out the bass as well thats why its in front of the eq in my chain on most tasks. on bass i dig the eq-comp approach and on some other things as well.
my starting 2bus comp is always 2 to 4:1 10ms attack, release set to 8th note.

well, theres so many possibilities, dont take my advice to serious !

good luck
Old 26th August 2007
  #4
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gurubuzz's Avatar
 

When you're creating the track have your mastering plugs in the master channel from the start..

but use a buss as your master channel and have a finished mastered track on a separate channel going to a different buss....

this way you can, at anytime, A-B your mix/master to something that you know is right....


this is a very powerful way to gain a real perspective of what you are doing...

it's all too easy, in dance/electro, to loose definition in bass and kick in the mastering stage

with processors so fast now why make mastering a separate job??

if you are doing a whole album you can have finished tracks on the different bus, as mentioned above, to keep it all consistent.
Old 26th August 2007
  #5
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thermos's Avatar
Wait, why use tube pres in your mastering chain? If you want blistering loud, get some good a/d converters and clip them on the way in.
Old 26th August 2007
  #6
Gear Head
 
1945MF's Avatar
 

Thanks you guys,
So there is no really rules right?
but true if i boost those tube preams i lose the sub bass and those low frequency a bit..
i manage to save some money to buy Millenia Media EQ and SPL Tube Vitaliter to replace those Toft & TL Audio soon..
Any comment for EQ & Tube pre in those price?

Cheers,

1945MF
Old 26th August 2007
  #7
Mastering Moderator
 
Riccardo's Avatar
No, there are no rules. What sounds right to you rules in this case.

Try the eq followed by the Amek comp as a starting point leaving the preamp out of the equation. You should have enough from the Amek to hit your AD in the right spot.
Old 26th August 2007
  #8
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
Wait, why use tube pres in your mastering chain? If you want blistering loud, get some good a/d converters and clip them on the way in.
i hope this is a joke...
Old 26th August 2007
  #9
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5down1up's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasmetre View Post
i hope this is a joke...
nope it isnt, its a very common thing. when your internal daw bus starts to clip it gets very audible, if you use an analogue mastering chain you can clip your ads a few xtra dbs before its getting nasty. you come closer to loud as hell ... or is that trick the magic lil trick noone wants to share ? heh
Old 26th August 2007
  #10
I love threads from guys with a string of boxes, some of which may have cost more than my whole recording chain, asking how to hook them all up.

I love it.
Old 26th August 2007
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
Wait, why use tube pres in your mastering chain? If you want blistering loud, get some good a/d converters and clip them on the way in.
I hope to hell this is a joke.

If it's not it's one of the stupidest things I've read in this BB -- and that, my friend, is saying plenty.



Try sending such a "mastered" audio file for CD-replication...
Old 26th August 2007
  #12
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5down1up's Avatar
 

sounds like ya never tried it
everything goes as far as i am concerned
Old 30th August 2007
  #13
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
I hope to hell this is a joke.

If it's not it's one of the stupidest things I've read in this BB -- and that, my friend, is saying plenty.



Try sending such a "mastered" audio file for CD-replication...
You can use the GClip plugin for a similar effect. You're not actually "clipping" in the traditional going over digital 0 sense ...But in fact it takes your peaking transients and squares them off. Used gently it sounds fine and allows you to push more volume out of your mix. Overused and you'll hear the distortion and things will get crispy.
Old 2nd September 2007
  #14
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defjamm's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
I hope to hell this is a joke.

If it's not it's one of the stupidest things I've read in this BB -- and that, my friend, is saying plenty.



Try sending such a "mastered" audio file for CD-replication...

there is nothing stupid about it. it's perfect for some modern music styles.
Old 2nd September 2007
  #15
Gear Nut
 
Freudian Slip's Avatar
 

What ever works. some people preffer L2 be fore regular or multi-band compression. Some visa versa. same with eq post or pre compression.

What works for one song may not work for another. Hopefully in an album situation you would find a setup that works well for the whole project. Not all settings, but the chain.

I personally would not have a pre in there.

What medium are you mastering too?

F.S.
Old 3rd September 2007
  #16
Gear Head
 
1945MF's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian Slip View Post
What ever works. some people preffer L2 be fore regular or multi-band compression. Some visa versa. same with eq post or pre compression.

What works for one song may not work for another. Hopefully in an album situation you would find a setup that works well for the whole project. Not all settings, but the chain.

I personally would not have a pre in there.

What medium are you mastering too?

F.S.
Thanks for the advice,
L2 before multiband? sounds interesting, as i know L2 is the end of the chain coz L2 is a limiter..

can i use multiband as a software after those L2 Hw? i dont have any multiband in hardware..

medium i mastering is CD and Digital download purpose..
eg: http://www.beatport.com or djdownload.com - the specialists in dance music mp3 download
Dance music need blasting gain till the headroom nearly ends..
So its very carefully to blast those transient to the ends..

Tube is alright.. like tube vitaliter SPL.. for mastering dance..
What do u think?

Cheers,

1945MF
Old 3rd September 2007
  #17
Gear Nut
 
Freudian Slip's Avatar
 

Well I always run the the L2 last like most. I also tend to take care of transients at the track level or manualy at the stereo mix level. Some people choose to run a limiter before the compression (single or multiband) to knock down transients so that the compressor is not triggering off of them.

If you mixes are good and a single band compressor works great go with it.
If you find that a single band is bringing up a bass rumble that can't be taken care of by eqing the stereo mix a multi-band may be a better choice. I try both when doing (home) mastering. There really are no rules, as said before. The method is dependent on the song. I my self do all my mastering in the box. I can't afford the outboard gear to do it the way I want. The easy of trying different signal chains is nice with plugs too.
Wish I could afford the outboard gear though. especially EQ's.

The one rule I do have is that I never push it to the point that the sound quality is degraded. I will back it off if I can hear any degridation.


F.S.

Last edited by Freudian Slip; 4th September 2007 at 03:03 AM.. Reason: addition
Old 3rd September 2007
  #18
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heathen's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
I hope to hell this is a joke.

If it's not it's one of the stupidest things I've read in this BB -- and that, my friend, is saying plenty.



Try sending such a "mastered" audio file for CD-replication...

Sad but true, yes a lot of people do this with varying degrees of success, I hate the sound of clipping unless it is on usually just the top 1 db of a kick drum for a little extra click, which I do in the mixing stage anyway.

Clipping as a rule should be avoided but if its only 1 or 2 gentle overs then its no big deal if you can get a couple of extra db without using a plugin, but sorry to say it's usually only the best mastering engineers who can get away with this without ****ty audible clipping artifacts.

I used to never ever clip anything but after so many years reading on here how people like clipping I thought there must be some merrit to use it at some stage of the production process, so yeah I use it very sparingly on the occasional kick drum and thats it.
Old 4th September 2007
  #19
Lives for gear
 

Probably leave out the pre's...I'd go limiter before compressor then subtle eq (if needed)..you don't have to come back in near zero...you should only be trying to level off those peaks with nice outboard gear..I disagree completely with clipping anywhere digitally...you can get to zero with limiter plugs after that
Old 4th September 2007
  #20
Gear Nut
 
Freudian Slip's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickynicknick View Post
I disagree completely with clipping anywhere digitally.
Amen!


F.S.
Old 4th September 2007
  #21
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taturana's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickynicknick View Post
I disagree completely with clipping anywhere digitally...

i don´t use it but it seems it´s commonly done in many top notch mastering houses.. but only using very high quality A/D´s to do it... not your typical ones.... so i wouldn´t say never...
Old 4th September 2007
  #22
Gear Nut
 
Freudian Slip's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by taturana View Post
i don´t use it but it seems it´s commonly done in many top notch mastering houses.. but only using very high quality A/D´s to do it... not your typical ones.... so i wouldn´t say never...

Well there's alot of top albums out there that sound like **** as well. Is it possible that some of those ad converters have a built in brickwall or that they modify thier scale in some way. Ya it's possible that some converters handle clipping better than others (just like consumer DA converters. Just remember that the clip you hear does not exsist until all those numbers on that cd hit the converters in your stereo. So if strictly speaking there is such a thing as a higher quality clip, it only exists when played through those converters that handle clipping well. Anything else is digital manipulation in order to prevent an actual clip.

I know that there are plenty of albums that have clipping in them and that mastering houses do that, but once again the mastering house has zero control over how that clip sounds once it leaves there studio.

It's a crapy practice, just as mastering in harshness to increase apperant loudness of recordings is a crapy practice.

Just my 2 cents.


F.S.
Old 8th September 2007
  #23
Lives for gear
 

uh huh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian Slip View Post

It's a crapy practice, just as mastering in harshness to increase apperant loudness of recordings is a crapy practice.

Just my 2 cents.


F.S.
Amen to that brother
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