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What should I upgrade + Other help. Audio Interfaces
Old 16th August 2007
  #1
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Electronique's Avatar
 

Question What should I upgrade + Other help.

OK so im thinking of upgrading my Audio Interface or my Monitors, or both - depending on credit!!

Current setup -
AMD X2 running Sonar 6PE
Delta1010 rack
Alesis Monitor Ones + Alesis RA150

Options -
Motu HD192 - I like its amount of XLR ins/outs. No need for pres for me..
JBL LSR4326 - I like them for the room correction. I rent and cant hang stuff up on the wall..


Problems im currently having - Any help to trace out fault would be helpful

After about 30min of mixing audio, I get this bad sort of distortion coming from the monitors (eitehr L or R) and then the offending monitor cuts out completely..

To correct this I usually turn the amp off/on or play with the volume on the amp, and it usually corrects it - for a minute or two.. So Im gathering it is my amp thats faulty...


Would your first choice of upgrade be the monitors?
Old 16th August 2007
  #2
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i like jbl 4408s and also yorkville ysm1s.
better low end on the jbls, but the ysms can be found sub $150.

steven walcott
Engine Studios
Old 16th August 2007
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1monkey1 View Post
i like jbl 4408s and also yorkville ysm1s.
better low end on the jbls, but the ysms can be found sub $150.
I think im pretty set on the LSR 4326's

Does anybody own these? Do they do a room (with NO treatment) good?
Old 16th August 2007
  #4
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Don't get the LSR's. The room correction will help in the ONE SPOT that you place the RTA mic. It will get worse everywhere else. There's really no way around doing some room treatment.
Old 16th August 2007
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowfreq33 View Post
Don't get the LSR's. The room correction will help in the ONE SPOT that you place the RTA mic. It will get worse everywhere else. There's really no way around doing some room treatment.
But if my room is generally square, and my monitors centred.. Shouldnt the RTA mic pic up all reflections, therefore the speakers will correct them?
Old 16th August 2007
  #6
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I don't really understand how they could work.
Even if the speaker compensated at the point where the microphone is calibrated, you can never keep your head in that position where it is trying to fix things. By moving even 1 inch everything will change.

Spend $500 on Room Treatment and get some Blue Sky mediadesks. The room treatment will change everything when you do it. You'll learn about how sound travels, standing waves, optimizing the listening position, and nulls in your room which will give you a way better understanding about audio then if you bought some speakers which supposedly fixed all your problems.

In a square room you have to have treatment or you will be guessing the bass and mids all the time. Check here for some great info RealTraps - Acoustics Information
Old 16th August 2007
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electronique View Post
But if my room is generally square, and my monitors centred.. Shouldnt the RTA mic pic up all reflections, therefore the speakers will correct them?
No. For starters, that's not really the way the physics of it all works.

Also, EQ (which is what the JBL "room correction" does) is extremely limited in what it can accomplish -- it may be able to lower peaks to a degree, but it cannot fix nulls, and it cannot fix modal ringing.

Further, the "room correction" EQ on the JBL speakers will basically only address your single worst peak -- but there are always many more than just one problematic room mode in any given room.

Here are two articles that discuss (and demonstrate) the limits of what "corrective EQ" can accomplish acoustically:

RealTraps - EQ versus Bass Traps

RealTraps - Audyssey Room EQ

Both of the room correction EQs discussed in the above articles are much more advanced/complex than the room correction feature in the JBL monitors you are referring to.

You don't need to do major construction to install bass traps. If you can hang pictures on the walls in your rented apartment, you can put up some bass traps. For example, our bass traps are typically mounted on some picture hanging wire -- but they can also be mounted on stands (e.g., you can even mount them on inexpensive mic stands). This is also most often the case with DIY panels.

I'm actually in the process of working with a guy right now who is treating a large listening room, and he doesn't want to drill any holes. He's putting a bunch of bass traps on stands (in the vertical wall/wall corners, and some set up at the first reflection points), and then he's treating a substantial percentage of the wall/floor corners (which are equally valid to other room corners for treating room mode problems).

You will gain SO much more by getting some proper broadband/bass trapping in your room than you will by upgrading your electronics or monitors. Dollar for dollar acoustics treatment is the biggest improvement you can make to your studio.

You can have all kinds of great gear with ruler flat frequency response, but, without proper acoustics treatment, a room like yours will have modal peaks and dips in the frequency response that will typically be 30 to 35 dB from top to bottom. What you already have surely has a quite flat frequency response . . . but you are not hearing it that way because the room you are in is certain to be colouring the sound IMMENSELY!
Old 16th August 2007
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
No. For starters, that's not really the way the physics of it all works... etc etc

You will gain SO much more by getting some proper broadband/bass trapping in your room than you will by upgrading your electronics or monitors. Dollar for dollar acoustics treatment is the biggest improvement you can make to your studio.
OK.. So I rent my small studio I live in, so NO drilling holes in walls, or NO hanging things.. Am I up for buying some free standing traps and diffusers? They just get a bit pricey by the time they ship over to Australia..

But, I do know it would be a great investment.. Its just hard knowing that youve spent money on these ugly things in your room, rather than some flashy new piece of kit..

What would you suggest I purchase? Im hoping my local RealTraps dealer should be able to help me aswell..
Old 17th August 2007
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electronique View Post

Its just hard knowing that youve spent money on these ugly things in your room, rather than some flashy new piece of kit..
It's that kind of thinking that will lead you in the wrong direction in all aspects of recording. Any body can buy all the fancy gear, but the true aspiring engineer/mixer will know his acoustics, and how they change in the environment around him like the back of his hand.

If you get the Acoustic treatment done, you will cringe when you listen to the stuff you did before you had it. It does make that big of a difference.
Old 17th August 2007
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwayne View Post
If you get the Acoustic treatment done, you will cringe when you listen to the stuff you did before you had it. It does make that big of a difference.
Yeah. Look I know it has to get done..

I live in a small studio (one room, filled with TV, bed, couch, DAW, desk, rack etc - you get the idea) so there is no room to place much stuff..

I suppose I will just have to go and speak to my local shop and take them some photos of my place, and get them to sort me out..
Old 17th August 2007
  #11
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If you want to inquire about RealTraps products, by all means feel free to email me at any time (add .com to my username and you are there). This will be much better than talking with the dealer in Australia, as you will get much more knowledgeable advice. (I don't really wish to get into "sales" communications on the forums, as it's not appropriate here.)

If your budget is limited and you have some decent DIY skills, you also have the option to build your own bass traps, and there are a number of threads on this forum about building your own. This may or may not be as effective or as nice looking as some of the available commercial solutions, but it can still help a great deal.

The bottom line is that you need broadband/bass traps in your room. This is by far the most effective and economical way to treat small rooms for acoustics. As a general rule, I tend to recommend away from using diffusors in small rooms (but that's for another post, or perhaps even an entire thread!), especially for small rooms in which critical listening/mixing is done. (Dedicated live rooms can be a different story.) And I ESPECIALLY recommend against cheap, poorly designed, hollow plastic diffusors that are so common on the market. These have the potential to add as many problems as they might cure.
Old 17th August 2007
  #12
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The real traps site has tons of valuable info and videos. It will help you immensely. DIY options could be to buy 2" OC 703 put 2 together to make 4" thick and wrap them in burlap. Just glue the burlap to the 703 with a adhesive spray and your done.

Lightweight put them up then take them down when your finished and store them in a closet. You won't regret it. The real traps will be better and I wish I could afford a couple of those but maybe sometime. I would definitey talk to the Real Traps guys. They are experts at this. How could you do any better? Good Luck
Old 17th August 2007
  #13
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If you can't hang anything with nails, go to Home Depot amd get some command adhesive hooks. It's a plastic hook with a pad that sticks great and can be removed without damaging the walls.
If you don't treat your room you may as well go to radio shack and get some computer speakers.
And I've spent a few hours with the JBL LSR's, and I can confirm that the "room correction" DOES NOT WORK! It's marketing at it's finest. Never ever ever buy these!
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