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Sub $250 mic to make my singing voice less ass
Old 14th August 2020
  #61
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by a.m. son View Post
And all of Motown’s vocals from about ‘68 (I think) on! In fact, according to Bob Ohlsson they sold all of their mic collection and bought a bunch of neumann km86’s and pretty much used them to mic everything.
Increasingly after ‘68, a number of vocals on Motown hits were not done at Motown at all. In one studio in LA, I set up or saw others set up 87s for Eddie Kendricks, The Miracles, The Jackson Five, DeBarge, and Michael Jackson, to name just the Motown vocalists who spring to mind. We also set up various mics for Stevie Wonder, but most often an 87.
I happen to be using a Warm 84 or an Aston Starlight on some recent vocals, and other than needing more pop filtering, I have zero problems with them.
Old 14th August 2020
  #62
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Hi A.M. I remember they used U67's at Motown, before the KM86.
Chris
Old 14th August 2020
  #63
Lives for gear
 

The new Beesneez U87 Clone, sounds a lot like those vintage U87's...
Chris
Old 14th August 2020
  #64
ccg
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Yep. IIRC also, at least some of Roy Orbison's hits at Monument, were done on a SDC. I'll recheck that.
Chris
Very interesting! I think you could have recorded Roy with a garden hose and piece of twine though!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pra6ezRMejg

What a haircut too. Somewhere between a pompadour and a beehive.
Old 14th August 2020
  #65
ccg
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
Increasingly after ‘68, a number of vocals on Motown hits were not done at Motown at all. In one studio in LA, I set up or saw others set up 87s for Eddie Kendricks, The Miracles, The Jackson Five, DeBarge, and Michael Jackson, to name just the Motown vocalists who spring to mind. We also set up various mics for Stevie Wonder, but most often an 87.
I happen to be using a Warm 84 or an Aston Starlight on some recent vocals, and other than needing more pop filtering, I have zero problems with them.
I heard a Stevie Wonder tune on the radio in the car a few days ago. One of the mega hits. It felt like an 87. The more I thought about it and played some other SW songs back in my mind the more I felt like maybe it was a go-to on his voice.

Lots of 87s around the instruments too on SW sessions?
Old 14th August 2020
  #66
Lives for gear
 

In the 70's. most all Stevie's hits were recorded on the EV RE20. That's part of the reason, I've been experimenting more again, with dynamic vocal microphones.

I'm getting real impressed, with the EV 767a too. IMHO it's a very cool mic for when you want to throw a bunch of Processing on a vocal.

It's more forgiving, in terms of mic technique, vs. a M88 or D790.
For my voice though, either of those two would be better on a "Rocker".

But for melodic Pop stuff, digging the 767a.

Just recorded the audio clip below today. A bit of fun here, and it keeps me learning. First verse of Tommy Roe's huge 1969 Sunshine Pop hit "Dizzy".
Chris
Attached Files

Song 130DizzyEV767aMSpsyechelicFinal.wav (4.30 MB, 385 views)

Old 14th August 2020
  #67
ccg
Gear Addict
I do love an RE 20, as I think I've mentioned in this this already! If I'm cranking out fast demos or doing scratch tracks I'll keep an RE 20 up on a stand around the clock. Not to say that it can't be used for a final vocal -- that happens often enough. Almost never sounds bad.

I had good luck with a Shure 545 Unidyne III on a vocal recently.
Old 14th August 2020
  #68
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccg View Post
I heard a Stevie Wonder tune on the radio in the car a few days ago. One of the mega hits. It felt like an 87. The more I thought about it and played some other SW songs back in my mind the more I felt like maybe it was a go-to on his voice.

Lots of 87s around the instruments too on SW sessions?
Stevie sounds like himself on most any mic. What mic was used on what song is a complicated puzzle. It depended on which engineer and producer were involved (he wasn’t always self-produced). I personally saw him sing on 87s, a 47fet, a Sony C37, and some odd little mic that one of the engineers wanted to try. I know that before I saw him in the studio he was sometimes pictured using an EV RE20.
Instrument mics varied, again by engineer, producer and studio. 87s were a standard in many studios. While playing drums, Stevie dented one of the 87s in our studio. That would usually be considered a huge problem, but he booked so much time that it hardly raised an eyebrow. The cost of doing business at a certain level, I guess.
Old 14th August 2020
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
Stevie sounds like himself on most any mic.
This isn't just true of Stevie Wonder but everyone.

Unless a mic has a serious flaw or a particular quality that enhances something in a bad way on a particular voice everybody sounds like themself on most any mic.

Many people blame the tools when the talent or lack thereof on both sides of the mic is responsible for 90% of the final sound.

It's very difficult to impossible to listen to a final mix and say that's a dynamic or a condenser mic on that vocal nevermind the exact make and model.

A mic doesn't really make your singing voice sound like ass or less like ass. It's but one tool in the job of getting a sound captured to a recording medium.

Give a good engineer three mics that are not awful, a good quality micpreamp. eq, and compressor and they can get all three of them pretty damn similar sounding to that person singing into them.
Old 14th August 2020
  #70
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLast View Post
It's very difficult to impossible to listen to a final mix and say that's a dynamic or a condenser mic on that vocal nevermind the exact make and model.
Great post. I'd bet a month's pay on anyone doing it consistently in blind tests. (Wait Stevie doesn't count )
Old 14th August 2020
  #71
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On me, it's make it sound less "ess".
Chris
Old 14th August 2020
  #72
Lives for gear
Part of what I intended to say is that some voices, even some voices on very popular songs, are not distinctive at all.
Old 14th August 2020
  #73
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Progger's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
In the 70's. most all Stevie's hits were recorded on the EV RE20. That's part of the reason, I've been experimenting more again, with dynamic vocal microphones.
I could very well be mistaken, and actual engineers like Bushman who were around for such things should correct me, but my understanding was that Stevie sang into a u87 the majority of the time, particularly on less belty tunes. I think he preferred the RE20 on a few songs that were more on the extreme side, volume-wise, which would make sense. That's just from the (semi-obsessive) research I've done around the production processes of Inner Visions and Songs in the Key of Life, which are my two favorites of his.

Regardless, any tracks done on the RE20 sound fantastic (since they all do) and I agree, quality dynamic mics are underrated by most newbies.

A couple RE20s connected by a short XLR cable would probably make a really effective pair of nunchucks, too.
Old 14th August 2020
  #74
Lives for gear
Songs in the Key of Life was largely recorded by John Fishback(sp?) and Gary Olazabal, who did often, but not always, use a U87 on his vocals. Several previous albums were largely recorded by a different team of engineers, who often, but not always, used an RE20.
Old 14th August 2020
  #75
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Half the time, the RE20 was used every time.
Chris
Old 14th August 2020
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccg View Post
Do you think the M88 is a better mic ?
These are totally different mics, the P120 is a small / medium back electret hobbyist condenser pretending to be a large diaphragm condenser while the M88 is a serious professional stage and studio dynamic microphone.

It's apples and oranges and depends on what you like and how exactly you prefer to work.

Most condensers (even budget ones) have higher output and more top end brightness. Dynamic mics are lower output and generally a darker sounding but you can certainly eq them to be brighter and more open sounding and even transients can be boosted up a bit by using a slow attack compressor.

In my opinion it's probably more likely that someone who stays with recording for some time would still have the M88 after some years and less likely that the cheap condenser would still be in their collection unless you are chessparov2.0 of course.

Still it's a matter of how you like to work and what kind of sound you are after. Some people just enjoy the brightness and quick transients of a condenser even if it's a budget one while others realize what can be achieved with a good dynamic mic.

Red pill or the blue one???
Old 14th August 2020
  #77
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Half the time, the RE20 was used every time.
Chris
OK Yogi Berra
Old 14th August 2020
  #78
Lives for gear
Hey Yogi! When the fat lady sings, what mic do they put up?
Old 14th August 2020
  #79
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The best one they have.
Otherwise it's a Boo Boo, and that's no Picnic, in Jellystone.
Chris
Old 14th August 2020
  #80
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
Hey Yogi! When the fat lady sings, what mic do they put up?
At that point aren't they all put away?
Old 15th August 2020
  #81
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by bill5 View Post
At that point aren't they all put away?
I think they leave up the NT1a and hope someone will steal it.
Old 15th August 2020
  #82
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lmao
Old 15th August 2020
  #83
ccg
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLast View Post
These are totally different mics, the P120 is a small / medium back electret hobbyist condenser pretending to be a large diaphragm condenser while the M88 is a serious professional stage and studio dynamic microphone.

It's apples and oranges and depends on what you like and how exactly you prefer to work.

Most condensers (even budget ones) have higher output and more top end brightness. Dynamic mics are lower output and generally a darker sounding but you can certainly eq them to be brighter and more open sounding and even transients can be boosted up a bit by using a slow attack compressor.

In my opinion it's probably more likely that someone who stays with recording for some time would still have the M88 after some years and less likely that the cheap condenser would still be in their collection unless you are chessparov2.0 of course.

Still it's a matter of how you like to work and what kind of sound you are after. Some people just enjoy the brightness and quick transients of a condenser even if it's a budget one while others realize what can be achieved with a good dynamic mic.

Red pill or the blue one???
You took that question out of context and the larger post it was in. I own and use M88s regularly.
Old 15th August 2020
  #84
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This is Gearslutz. Facts be dam*ed. Full speed ahead!
Chris
Old 17th August 2020
  #85
Shure SM58 rocks. Has a little more low end than 57. And if you know how to use EQ you can easily make it sound like an SM7.

Listening to your raw recording. A compressor would totally change the feel of it. And use a pop filter and/or windscreen. With the SM57 I use 2 pop filters.
Old 17th August 2020
  #86
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raaphorst View Post
Shure SM58 rocks. Has a little more low end than 57.
Not really, as it's the exact same mic except for the grill, so the freq response is almost exactly the same. Plus he already has a Senn 825 which IMO is likely better than either for vocals, or at least no worse.
Old 17th August 2020
  #87
I've owned so many mics...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
You have some courage to post a solo raw vocal, and thanks for doing that. It gives a really good starting point. Your voice is interesting, with some unique characteristics and good pitch.
Sub $250... your voice doesn’t sound bad on the 825, which I’m familiar with. You might do well to move up the Senn dynamic line as far as your budget will take you. Even the 835 is noticeably sweeter and more detailed than the 825.
I haven’t liked cheap condensers that I’ve tried, and I particularly hate the silver NT1a, although the newer black NT1a has a different reputation.
Maybe Chessparov will give your sample a listen a suggest some mics. He loves budget condensers and I trust his recommendations.
I've owned a U87, I've even owned a vintage U47 - I've owned so many mics. Whatever you do don't buy the Re20 (I owned that - sounds like a SM7b with a gym sock over it) I've settled on the Shure SM7b. For my voice I prefer it to the U87 - flatters my voice and I don't have to worry about acoustic treatments Just to give you little background on my qualifications to judge; I owned I.N.S. Recording in Manhattan for 14 years. We had many platinum albums and oddly enough were known as a vocal studio. Indeed Keith Sweat recorded his first three albums there as well as the Covergirls, first Public Enemy album,Fatboys biggest selling album, first Wutang single and many more. They all used the U87 but for me the SM7b was the best.
I've heard the Heil 40 is similiar to the Shure but doesn't need a Cloudlifter but I can't vouch for that.

Last edited by ianorth; 17th August 2020 at 04:01 PM.. Reason: fix grammar
Old 17th August 2020
  #88
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boombapdame's Avatar
 

Yo @ ianorth what was it like working w/Keith, The Covergirls, PE, Fat Boys, and what the vibe like recording "Protect Ya Neck?"
Old 17th August 2020
  #89
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLast View Post

A mic doesn't really make your singing voice sound like ass or less like ass.
I've been accused of talking out of my ass, but never guilty of singing out of my ass.
Old 17th August 2020
  #90
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwpthe3rd View Post
I've been accused of talking out of my ass, but never guilty of singing out of my ass.
You have no idea what others are saying when you leave the room.
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