The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Do everything mic +/- $500
Old 6th August 2020
  #32
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLast View Post
This is Warm Audio's claim about the parts in the WA87:

Fairchild FETs (field effect transistors); polystyrene, tantalum, and WIMA film capacitors; and a genuine USA-made Cinemag.

Pretty quality stuff there. The Cinemag I would imagine may be a bit different than the original 60's - mid 80's Neumans but it's certainly not a low quality transformer.

The caps also might be a bit different but again what's there is high quality stuff.

The capsule and the head basket I would think would be the most difficult parts to get exactly right and actually hit spot on with a clone.

Note: Stam Audio doesn't use the Cinemag and their SA87 is like $300 more.

I've never had the chance to use an older U87 but that is the mic Warm Audio chose to copy and instead people continue to compare it to the U87Ai which is brighter, tighter, and has more output than the original Neumann U87.

The WA87 is kind of low output for an LDC and has a nice mid while the top and bottom are not as clear or tight as the Ai.

The only review I have read that actually compares the WA87 to the original U87 claimed it was pretty similar sounding to it but lacked some of the "weight" in the low mids that the original was known for. That's not bad for a $600 budget-ish clone.

I think the Warm is hurt not so much by their mic's actual performance but by people's unrealistic expectations of the mic. The original U87 as I understand it didn't get some kind of "rays coming down from the sky best mic ever" kind of response when it came out. It was often passed over for the older tube Neumanns for critical stuff like lead vocals by people who had the option of U67's and U47's or other really impressive mics like the C12 or 251.

If you are expecting the sound of a U87ai or the old tube Neumann's then skip the Warm but if you want a good mic and something different (darker) than a lot of modern mics for $600 that is something like an original 1967-1985 U87 then you might want to check it out.

No, I don't work for Warm Audio or sell their stuff. I just enjoy audio gear and sound and try to pay attention to the history of it as well as what is going on currently in the land of recording that mere mortals can maybe attempt to afford.
Hi J. The "edge" I mentioned, was the implication I drew from conversation with Warm's mic designer. I keep an open mind, partly as I have a different microphone, with a Chinese capsule (AKG P120) that still sounds very good...
Despite having lesser components than either Warm or 3U.
(same for my mid Production/McKay Oktava 219 & 319)
Chris
Old 6th August 2020
  #33
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Hi J. The "edge" I mentioned, was the implication I drew from conversation with Warm's mic designer. I keep an open mind, partly as I have a different microphone, with a Chinese capsule (AKG P120) that still sounds very good...
Despite having lesser components than either Warm or 3U.
(same for my mid Production/McKay Oktava 219 & 319)
Chris
I have no idea what you mean by edge. You said at one point here that the 3U mics had the edge in quality of parts but I don't know what you are basing that on.

Not sure if that's what you are refering to or that the WA87 is an edgy sounding mic because to me it's actually quite the opposite. The mic does not have the bright edgy sound that many budget mics have nor should it considering it's not a $99 or even $299 microphone.
Old 6th August 2020
  #34
Lives for gear
 

"Edge" meaning my understanding was such, I thought that based on that conversation... 3U was slightly better in the parts/circuitry regard (the designer was somewhat frustrated with Warm). I could be misteakin.

I have sang/tried the Warm WA-87 and thought it sounded very nice. Recently there were some clips of the Warm 87, compared to the Tonelux JC37 (which I'm also familiar with), and it did very well. GS member "Weave" has made some good sounding vocal and acoustic guitar recordings with it, so I totally agree it's a solid mic.
Chris
P.S. Again, I actually like some microphones, which objectively don't have the best parts/circuit. But have a cool tone.
Not like I'm saving up for any DPA's or Earthworks!
Old 6th August 2020
  #35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post

Another house music vocal awesomeness for cheap is Electrovoice 635a. Cost you about 50 dollars second hand. Slots a vocal into house like a champ.

If you really want the one single LDC I would say see if you can stretch to a 414 EB or even B-ULS or maybe an AT4050. Yes, there are many new mics, but they are often tangy at that price, and you say you don't want that. Can't blame you. I don't either. lol
Yesss! 635a has mucho omni charm, often good for nice surprises, though not a lot of bass can sound full (on a voice with basso) and even new just over 100 bucks! 135? Plus they're known to withstand floods, fires and the like.

And the 414 B-ULS i had sounded gorgeous on everything. Current 414 pure plastic in comparison.
Old 6th August 2020
  #36
Lives for gear
 

Someone say EV 635a? 2nd Tenor Vocal clip below...
Chris
Attached Files

Song 104howsoonisnowev635a.wav (1.72 MB, 883 views)

Old 7th August 2020
  #37
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cracker satchmo View Post
Yesss! 635a has mucho omni charm, often good for nice surprises, though not a lot of bass can sound full (on a voice with basso) and even new just over 100 bucks! 135? Plus they're known to withstand floods, fires and the like.

And the 414 B-ULS i had sounded gorgeous on everything. Current 414 pure plastic in comparison.
Doesn't want to sound 'full' inside a house music mix, so slips right into pocket as is with magic, exciting mids and presence. No shoehorning required, just a little spice and done.
Old 7th August 2020
  #38
Gear Addict
 

So, I wound up doing something I said I wouldn’t and ordered a stam 87. They were in stock and didn’t have to mess around with the crazy wait times on the building.

To me there’s definitely a good difference between the stam and the warm, which is more brittle and nervous sounding.

Pretty excited. It’s not a brand new U87, but I look at that as more of a good thing as it will be flatter and more neutral and more universally usable on different sources. May lack a little excitement on certain voices but...
Old 7th August 2020
  #39
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3bc View Post
To me there’s definitely a good difference between the stam and the warm, which is more brittle and nervous sounding.
Umm... as you don't even have the Stam yet how are you making this assessment??

Have you even actually heard the Warm Audio?

While it's certainly arguable how close or not the WA87 is to an original 60' - 80's Neumann U87 (not the current U87ai) the Warm in my opinion is nothing like brittle, it's a pretty dark mic with decent mids that on many sources one would want to actually boost the highs
Old 7th August 2020
  #40
I'd like to hear how these mics sound off axis in cardiod mode compared to a neumann U87i or U87ai, somebody needs to do that test and post audio results or a video.
Old 7th August 2020
  #41
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pencilextremist View Post
I'd like to hear how these mics sound off axis in cardiod mode compared to a neumann U87i or U87ai, somebody needs to do that test and post audio results or a video.
Yup. The biggest thing about a mic to me these days is how easy it is to get a bad sound out of it, not how easy it is to get a good one.
Old 7th August 2020
  #42
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLast View Post
Umm... as you don't even have the Stam yet how are you making this assessment??

Have you even actually heard the Warm Audio?

While it's certainly arguable how close or not the WA87 is to an original 60' - 80's Neumann U87 (not the current U87ai) the Warm in my opinion is nothing like brittle, it's a pretty dark mic with decent mids that on many sources one would want to actually boost the highs
https://youtu.be/pAcFTHrBwGY

https://youtu.be/gmm2DZGPZg4

As another has said, feel like I’m listening to the mic, not the source...
Old 10th August 2020
  #43
Lives for gear
 
themixtape's Avatar
My recommendations: Rode NT2A ($400 workhorse, can record anything, and sounds fantastic doing it all-- you should check out that pro recording they did entirely with an NT2A-- older Rode video on YouTube), Lauten Audio LA-220 ($300, sounds like a $1200 mic), Lewitt 440 Pure ($270, really, really nice mic), and lastly-- Sennheiser MK4 ($300) which a lot of people have said sounds exactly like a TLM102... I can't really disagree, as I own both.

KSM32 is a good mic, but I've never been a huge fan of it.

Warm Audio-- the sad thing about them is they rely on REALLY amazing (and I'm talking AMAZING) singers (and full studio tracks) for their video demos. And they usually do some type of vocal chain with one of their mic pres. So, while you think you'll sound like those truly amazing singers (you won't, and neither will I)... I just really feel they are marketing gods, with lackluster gear.
Old 10th August 2020
  #44
Gear Addict
 

How about finding a used Studio Project C1 at around $150.00 and having Microphone-Parts turn it into a U87 clone?

https://microphone-parts.com/product...640be076&_ss=r
Old 10th August 2020
  #45
Lives for gear
 

I sold my u87ai and ordered an advanced audio 87. I did it based on reviews so we will see how it turns out.
Old 10th August 2020
  #46
+1 for the Advanced Audio CM87
Old 10th August 2020
  #47
Lives for gear
Looks like you’ve already made your choice, but I’ll weigh in for posterity’s sake. I agree with those saying LDCs in this price range are hit or miss. Also, if you’re doing foley, that wouldn’t be my choice anyway. A Line Audio CM-4 (or a pair) is a good choice, especially coupled with a nice dynamic for vocals (SM7, M88). I’d rather have my CM-4 pair and an M88 over just about any sub-$500 LDC I’ve used.

That said, if you’re set on an LDC, I owned an Aston Spirit for a while that I found to be quite nice. Weird looking mic, but versatile and solid sounding without a harsh top end. If you look around for older Blue mics, they can often be a deal. The Latvian made Baby Bottles are excellent and used to sell for $1000. I picked one up a few years ago for $103 on eBay. The Bluebirds with the “Made in the US from Latvian parts” labels are also nicer than the current production ones. There’s currently a Bottle Rocket Stage 1 for $570 on Guitar Center’s used site, and that would be a really decent choice for a little over budget.

I wouldn’t go for a Rode (have owned and used the NT-1a and NT-2 both fairly extensively), an AT4050 (owned a pair and they were fine on everything but never great on anything, particularly vocals), or any of the clone mics in that price range.
Old 10th August 2020
  #48
Here for the gear
 

Anyone have experience with these? I’ve heard great things. Oktava MK 012 matched pair.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072YWQFVB..._tW0lFbW5BMP9W
Old 10th August 2020
  #49
Here for the gear
AT4033, 4021, 4022

I’m a little late to this discussion, but in that price range I like the AT 4033s. I occasionally use it for VO, but have also used them as spots for operatic soloists and choirs. As cardioids, the proximity effect offers a decent amount of variability you can play with in terms of mic placement. Sits well in the mix. Years ago, the 4033 came in second in a blind mic test for vocals against mics many, many times the price at Chicago Recording.
I‘ve been curious about Peluso offerings. I’ve heard some YouTube demos that have piqued my interest. Although double your budget, their 87 and 414 knockoffs might be worth a look.
Regardless, a solid Omni in your price range might offer you a clean sound for what you’re looking for. But maybe not so much for vocals. A less colored, clean option in your price range may be the AT 4022. Same goes for the 4021 (cardioid). I used the 4021 combined with my Beyer m160 on guitar for a killer sound.
Old 10th August 2020
  #50
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by rohlfie View Post
I’m a little late to this discussion, but in that price range I like the AT 4033s. I occasionally use it for VO, but have also used them as spots for operatic soloists and choirs. As cardioids, the proximity effect offers a decent amount of variability you can play with in terms of mic placement. Sits well in the mix. Years ago, the 4033 came in second in a blind mic test for vocals against mics many, many times the price at Chicago Recording.
I‘ve been curious about Peluso offerings. I’ve heard some YouTube demos that have piqued my interest. Although double your budget, their 87 and 414 knockoffs might be worth a look.
Regardless, a solid Omni in your price range might offer you a clean sound for what you’re looking for. But maybe not so much for vocals. A less colored, clean option in your price range may be the AT 4022. Same goes for the 4021 (cardioid). I used the 4021 combined with my Beyer m160 on guitar for a killer sound.
+1

Good options here for sure. The more affordable Peluso stuff intrigued me too. As far as omnis in this price range go, a pair of Avenson STO-2s come in right around $500. My pair see a ton of use, though very rarely on vocals. Sometimes for BGVs or maaaaybe female vocals with a great singer who’s going to a natural, unhyped tone.

Beyerdynamic M160 is a good choice too. Again, not a first pick vocal mic most of the time, but it works well in certain contexts and is really magnificent on all kinds of other stuff.

It’s funny - there aren’t many great vocal mics in this price range (dynamics not withstanding). The mics aimed specifically for vocals at the $500 mark seem to fall short much of the time. However, there are mics that are lovely for stringed instruments, brass, overheads, piano, rooms, ensembles, and a gazillion other things that also sound fine on vocals. I’d err towards those mics as they’ll continue to be useful even if you leap up to a $1500 vocal mic. Heck, I’m using Line Audio CM-4s ($300/pr) and Avenson STO-2s ($500/pr) very happily alongside a Soyuz SU-017 ($4000) and a vintage Gefell UM70 ($1500).
Old 10th August 2020
  #51
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlproductions View Post
Anyone have experience with these? I’ve heard great things. Oktava MK 012 matched pair.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072YWQFVB..._tW0lFbW5BMP9W
Those are really great, solid mics. I use my pair a lot. THey're my main overhead mics, I've used them as room mics for a bunch of things, and they sound really good on upright piano as well.
Old 10th August 2020
  #52
Gear Nut
 

SM7 or RE20.

SM7 will be good for percussion.

Re20 sounds more luxurious

And for a little more a Telefunken M62
Old 10th August 2020
  #53
Quote:
Originally Posted by cap217 View Post
I sold my u87ai and ordered an advanced audio 87. I did it based on reviews so we will see how it turns out.
really? that surprises me.
Old 10th August 2020
  #54
Lives for gear
 

Not me. You should hear Dave Thomas' version of the Sony C800G sometime.
All the microphones I've ever heard, in the AA line sound excellent.
Chris
Old 11th August 2020
  #55
Lives for gear
 
esldude's Avatar
Lewitt LCT 440 Pure. Two barely cost over $500.

Or Lewitt LCT 441 Flex multi-pattern microphone. $399.
Old 11th August 2020
  #56
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Not me. You should hear Dave Thomas' version of the Sony C800G sometime.
All the microphones I've ever heard, in the AA line sound excellent.
Chris
Yes, but he sold his Neumann BEFORE hearing it........
Old 11th August 2020
  #57
Gear Addict
 
Overdrive's Avatar
 

Under 1K

At the under 1K price tag I still love the Avantone CV12, crisp and classy tube sounding.
The Mojave MA201FET is a little pricier and worth a note. it's a workhorse in any situation. You could check the MA50 instead.

And... to be honest I like the Warm stuff - the WA14 is great and the WA87 is a good mic (but you already stated a dislike...) and IMO both WA47 and 251 are a steal.
Old 11th August 2020
  #58
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatever View Post
SM7 or RE20.

SM7 will be good for percussion.

Re20 sounds more luxurious

And for a little more a Telefunken M62
SM7 is definitely on the list to buy at some point. Great utility mic. But I’m not picturing the headroom for recording the rain, the birds from my patio kind of thing I can get out of a condenser.
Old 11th August 2020
  #59
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohlfie View Post
I’m a little late to this discussion, but in that price range I like the AT 4033s. I occasionally use it for VO, but have also used them as spots for operatic soloists and choirs. As cardioids, the proximity effect offers a decent amount of variability you can play with in terms of mic placement. Sits well in the mix. Years ago, the 4033 came in second in a blind mic test for vocals against mics many, many times the price at Chicago Recording.
I‘ve been curious about Peluso offerings. I’ve heard some YouTube demos that have piqued my interest. Although double your budget, their 87 and 414 knockoffs might be worth a look.
Regardless, a solid Omni in your price range might offer you a clean sound for what you’re looking for. But maybe not so much for vocals. A less colored, clean option in your price range may be the AT 4022. Same goes for the 4021 (cardioid). I used the 4021 combined with my Beyer m160 on guitar for a killer sound.
I’ve long enjoyed peluso mics. But I believe Stam is the new king of budget oriented classic knockoffs. Cheaper and more authentic to the source.

https://youtu.be/gmm2DZGPZg4

https://youtu.be/erFv9G8nwtQ

https://youtu.be/2T9g-gg9p-g

https://youtu.be/Dmw4p3l3nOg

https://youtu.be/_sVzqxUXARc

https://youtu.be/LZwsRQSjCwI
Old 11th August 2020
  #60
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexevans917 View Post
+1

Good options here for sure. The more affordable Peluso stuff intrigued me too. As far as omnis in this price range go, a pair of Avenson STO-2s come in right around $500. My pair see a ton of use, though very rarely on vocals. Sometimes for BGVs or maaaaybe female vocals with a great singer who’s going to a natural, unhyped tone.

Beyerdynamic M160 is a good choice too. Again, not a first pick vocal mic most of the time, but it works well in certain contexts and is really magnificent on all kinds of other stuff.

It’s funny - there aren’t many great vocal mics in this price range (dynamics not withstanding). The mics aimed specifically for vocals at the $500 mark seem to fall short much of the time. However, there are mics that are lovely for stringed instruments, brass, overheads, piano, rooms, ensembles, and a gazillion other things that also sound fine on vocals. I’d err towards those mics as they’ll continue to be useful even if you leap up to a $1500 vocal mic. Heck, I’m using Line Audio CM-4s ($300/pr) and Avenson STO-2s ($500/pr) very happily alongside a Soyuz SU-017 ($4000) and a vintage Gefell UM70 ($1500).
Avensons have been on the list a long time. I generally dislike stereo signals and don’t record overhead drums or anything.
📝 Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 52 views: 8635
Avatar for vasylek
vasylek 3 days ago
replies: 1288 views: 204741
Avatar for audio_mc
audio_mc 3 days ago
replies: 407 views: 94522
Avatar for MichaelDroste
MichaelDroste 1 week ago
replies: 96 views: 6203
Avatar for Dave_Ionic
Dave_Ionic 13 hours ago
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
🖨️ Show Printable Version
✉️ Email this Page
🔍 Search thread
🎙️ View mentioned gear
Forum Jump
Forum Jump