The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 All  This Thread  Reviews  Gear Database  Gear for sale     Latest  Trending
HS8 provides Flat response, why pay more ?
Old 17th September 2019
  #1
Here for the gear
 

HS8 provides Flat response, why pay more ?

If a studio monitor like the HS8 is flat (and you can also get the sonarworks to make it even more flat), then what do i get from buying something like the Adam A7X more than the HS8 ?
(I have the HS5 and I want to upgrade now, I am kinda not sure about the HS8)
Old 17th September 2019
  #2
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Because 'flat' is not even the most important thing with monitors? Also, none are actually flat. They are speakers after all. With rooms around them. Flat enough is good.
Old 17th September 2019
  #3
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Because 'flat' is not even the most important thing with monitors? Also, none are actually flat. They are speakers after all. With rooms around them. Flat enough is good.
Yes ignoring the room (assuming its completely treated)
then what are the factors that would make A7X better?
Old 17th September 2019
  #4
Lives for gear
 
octatonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelThomas View Post
If a studio monitor like the HS8 is flat (and you can also get the sonarworks to make it even more flat), then what do i get from buying something like the Adam A7X more than the HS8 ?
(I have the HS5 and I want to upgrade now, I am kinda not sure about the HS8)
Go and listen to a proper set of monitors and make an informed decision.
Old 17th September 2019
  #5
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelThomas View Post
Yes ignoring the room (assuming its completely treated)
then what are the factors that would make A7X better?
To me, there are none, as I don't like Adam speakers much. But you might disagree. It's personal.

But mainly there are two things about monitors which are of importance. How they feel to work on, i.e. is it easy to get to the finish line, or do they fight back. And how well the result ends up translating to the outside world. That's it.

So yeah, try some. But ideally in your own space and not just listening, but working on them and then see where they drop you off. Only way to find out real things.

There are other parameters, like speed, low level detail, phantom centre solidity/imaging etc, but really that's all semantics if they tick boxes one and two.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
To me, there are none, as I don't like Adam speakers much. But you might disagree. It's personal.

But mainly there are two things about monitors which are of importance. How they feel to work on, i.e. is it easy to get to the finish line, or do they fight back. And how well the result ends up translating to the outside world. That's it.

So yeah, try some. But ideally in your own space and not just listening, but working on them and then see where they drop you off. Only way to find out real things.

There are other parameters, like speed, low level detail, phantom centre solidity/imaging etc, but really that's all semantics if they tick boxes one and two.
Thank You!!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #7
Gear Maniac
They are actually great monitors for the money! I keep them as a second pair, kinda like muscled up ns10’s.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #8
Gear Addict
 
dcwave's Avatar
 

spec sheets that show speakers to be flat have to be questioned--how were they tested? At what volume, how long had the amps been cooking before testing.

Just because they are flat on a spec sheet doesn't mean that don't have issues.

How cheap are the cross-overs? When will they fail? When the amps get hot after being used for several hours does the the sound change? Do the voice coils when they get hot, cause the cone to move differently and thus cause the low end to woof.

Can you listen to them for several hours without wanting to tear your ears off? When you push the volume upwards, are they still flat or do the highs become ice-picky and the mid become strident, suggesting the headroom isn't there?

How does the pair disperse? Is the stereo image narrow, wide? Do you lose highs when you move your head a few inches side to side? Front port or rear port? The speaker might be flat, but do you hear port chuffing? Do you know what to listen for? How is the image front to back? Can you hear into the speakers or is everything upfront?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9
Lives for gear
To answer your original question, there is no reason just to pay more. Paying more doesn’t by itself guarantee that you will get better, more translatable mixes. Paying more, even a full double boatload more, doesn’t even guarantee that you will have a more pleasing or productive experience with the expensive speakers.
There is at least a small possibility that you will never do better work on whatever really expensive speakers you may buy.
The speaker/room/mixer interaction is complex enough that it is nearly impossible to predict the results of changing one of the elements. Whatever amount you spend on monitors, it should be spent with a problem/solution approach. If a lot of listening and research indicates that ribbon tweeters, or concentric drivers, or twin woofers (or whatever) are something you just have to have in your room, and you will not have to give up eating to pay for the change, good luck to you.
If you are very happy with your results but are a little embarrassed by your “cheap” monitors, that’s not a good reason to buy something.
I’m not embarrassed to use a 57... it’s about the results.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #10
Gear Addict
 

You can do good work on HS8 but they're not super detailed and have major issues. They're good monitors but flatness with a fixed sine wave doesn't mean much for real world use. The cheap ass stamped woofer in them and the always active and affecting the sound limiter mean a ton with the HS8. Take a peak at the service manual. There's a limiter paralleling the woofer amp. See the attached image. Yamaha's limiting circuit works by taking the feedback from the output of the woofer amp and limiting the input to the woofer amp. With the right amount of feedback the signal will even be boosted. You might go "WTF Yamaha?" but without it that cheap ass woofer with the wimpy amp might blow. Yes you can hear it the limiter in action and yes it prevents you from hearing subtle compression and conveying some transient details well.

Even some cheaper, smaller monitors do not have those and will show punch better than the more expensive HS8. Most guys doing rock or metal can actually get away with a cheaper, smaller monitor. They will actually hear the levels better represented with a JBL 305 mkII at lower volumes in many cases.

The HS8 is shockingly decent but it can be rather deceptive. Mixes can gel together prematurely on it which they don't for other monitors. The A7X talked about in this thread is actually less flat than the HS8 but a more detailed monitor. I wouldn't use either of them for an only monitor but I think the A7X sounds better than the HS8 but it also costs twice as much and isn't as flat.
Attached Thumbnails
HS8 provides Flat response, why pay more ?-hs-8-limiter.png  
Old 4 weeks ago
  #11
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
To answer your original question, there is no reason just to pay more. Paying more doesn’t by itself guarantee that you will get better, more translatable mixes. Paying more, even a full double boatload more, doesn’t even guarantee that you will have a more pleasing or productive experience with the expensive speakers.
There is at least a small possibility that you will never do better work on whatever really expensive speakers you may buy.
The speaker/room/mixer interaction is complex enough that it is nearly impossible to predict the results of changing one of the elements. Whatever amount you spend on monitors, it should be spent with a problem/solution approach. If a lot of listening and research indicates that ribbon tweeters, or concentric drivers, or twin woofers (or whatever) are something you just have to have in your room, and you will not have to give up eating to pay for the change, good luck to you.
If you are very happy with your results but are a little embarrassed by your “cheap” monitors, that’s not a good reason to buy something.
I’m not embarrassed to use a 57... it’s about the results.
Sums it up perfectly. This is why when Bushman talks, I listen. I bet he works for EF Hutton ( :old person joke: ).
Old 4 weeks ago
  #12
Here for the gear
 

Thanks for the answers everyone! really helpful <3
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump