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How can I remove ringing from a nasty snare?
Old 8th June 2007
  #1
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Lightbulb How can I remove ringing from a nasty snare?

OH no!!! I have a though one ... I am mixing a tune recorded at another studio and the snare has some HORRIBLE ringing due to bad tuning tutt. I tried narrow notch EQ and a bunch of compression settings and I can't get rid of it without removing the "snap" from the snare.

I am really stuck. I'm out of ideas. How do you guys treat a ringing snare when retracking is not an option?

(I attached a sample of the track in question)

Thanks!
Attached Files

NastySnare.mp3 (438.4 KB, 11664 views)

Old 8th June 2007
  #2
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Is sample replacement an option (Drumagog or similar)?
Old 8th June 2007
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Recording David View Post
Is sample replacement an option (Drumagog or similar)?
I sure can replace the hits manually, but I'd rather not ...
Old 8th June 2007
  #4
The suggestion above is not manual - but to get software to do it.

Can you hear the ring badly when the snare channel is muted? (Does it come through on all the other mic's too?)

What format is he session on? Analog tape, Digital tape? DAW? (what software)

I would try a pitch change unit / software to bring the snare lower in pitch and carefully adjust the pitch change so the snare plays a musically pleasing 'note' / tuning with the song.. (that will cause latency and you will have to advance the snare track so it lands where it should)

My guess is a high "ping" will be more annoying than a lower, carefully tuned 'paaang'
Old 8th June 2007
  #5
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Thread Starter
Quote:
The suggestion above is not manual - but to get software to do it.
Yep, but I don't own Drumagog, Aptrigger or anything similar

Quote:
Can you hear the ring badly when the snare channel is muted? (Does it come through on all the other mic's too?)
It does not come out *that* bad on overheads, it can be heard, but it would probably be masked by a "corrected" snare track.

Quote:
What format is he session on? Analog tape, Digital tape? DAW? (what software)
DAW: SAWStudio. Manual drum replacement is quick here.

Quote:
I would try a pitch change unit / software to bring the snare lower in pitch and carefully adjust the pitch change so the snare plays a musically pleasing 'note' / tuning with the song.. (that will cause latency and you will have to advance the snare track so it lands where it should)
This is interesting, never thought of it ... I'll try it right now.

Thanks Jules!
Old 8th June 2007
  #6
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TheGetDown's Avatar
 

put claps over it?
Old 8th June 2007
  #7
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maybe double the track and try various eq/compression schemes to blend?
if it doesn't have "snap" when this area is eq'd out, it might gain it back by being beefier
maybe also try sample delaying the doubled track just a tiny bit to get a bigger sound
Old 8th June 2007
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copperx View Post
I am really stuck. I'm out of ideas. How do you guys treat a ringing snare when retracking is not an option?
If you can't find happiness with a narrow Q and a deep cut, followed with some compression to bring out the body, and then an EQ boost to bring some sexy back, you're out of options...

SAMPLES.
Old 8th June 2007
  #9
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Try pulling a little out at 1khz with a narrow Q. It's not as good an option as replacing the sound but it will pull out some of the annoying ring.
Old 8th June 2007
  #10
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cajonezzz's Avatar
 

Jules nailed it. If it's not too bad in the oh's.... sound replace. just do it manual.

aptrigga is cheap and RULZ BTW.

some people dig the "bonk" all depends on the tune.
Old 8th June 2007
  #11
Gear addict
 

I've used Kenny Gioia's (sp?) sound 'enhancement' tutorial trick. It works awesome. It takes awhile if you are just learning the process but for me, it's a lot easier than using sound replacer or something that I don't have (BFD, Gog and the like).
Old 8th June 2007
  #12
Registered User
 

im not huge on using samples, so in your position, if it's not to bad in OH, id get a snare drum and just play over it. Ive always felt sample replacement is good for when a sound just "isn't there at all" in the first place. (like a kick drum that sounds like "oohmmmm" if the beater isn't there, it's never going to magically "appear through EQ) But if it's simply a matter of there being something "offensive" about the sound, just remove/minimize whatever is offending you.


usually, ill just make the snare drum "work" in the song. Do the narrow eq thing, use RenEQ, or something like DP's MWEQ, and find the ring by focusing the EQ, (high gain, sweeping till it resonates) then a big cut till you can't hear it anymore.


usually a "ring" isnt in one frequency...it's a complex combination of frequencies. so you may need to eq out 2-3 different places. if you find a resonance, and eq it out, but still hear a ring, then repeat the process till all rings are gone. Then, give the snare a little boost in the mids to fatten it up, add a hint of distortion, send it to an aux with a plate verb...whatever it takes.

lastly, the snare doesn't have to be too loud! often i hear mixes with multitracked drums, and the snare is just to freakin loud. look at your 2-buss meters. if it is jumping by 2-4dB on snare hits, maybe your snare is too loud for the mix. (depending on style of course....jeez you know take all this with a grain of salt)
Old 8th June 2007
  #13
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Have you tried gating it? You can add some air back in with an ambience reberb patch.
Old 8th June 2007
  #14
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Dude, I'd wait and see what it's like in the mix. I've recently recorded some tracks with a piccolo snare with some ring (not quite like yours), but you can't hear it in the mix with everything else and it sounds quite good. I agree the snare is a little weak, but the ringing might not be the issue....
Old 8th June 2007
  #15
LK7
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It doesn't really sound that bad to me

EQ and mix

it is rock n' roll right?heh
Old 9th June 2007
  #16
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Maybe a Multiband compressor
Old 9th June 2007
  #17
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I don't think it's that's bad. What does it sound like in the mix?

if all else fails, tell people that Bob Rock produced it.
Old 9th June 2007
  #18
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hgen's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by copperx View Post
OH no!!! I have a though one ... I am mixing a tune recorded at another studio and the snare has some HORRIBLE ringing due to bad tuning tutt. I tried narrow notch EQ and a bunch of compression settings and I can't get rid of it without removing the "snap" from the snare.

I am really stuck. I'm out of ideas. How do you guys treat a ringing snare when retracking is not an option?

(I attached a sample of the track in question)

Thanks!
You have 2 nasty bumps at 249 hz and 777 hz which need to be notched out by 3-4db. Won't completely illimanate the ring but would help.

If you angle the mic like 45 degrees it accentuates ringing and get more attack, good for toms sometimes. If you come in flat, closer to the centre as possible away from the rim it will help. Loosen the bottom skin as well a bit, it seems to be choking which will put more doyng doyng into the sound. btw, it's not a bad sound for certain genres it's ok.
Old 9th June 2007
  #19
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Raw-Tracks's Avatar
 

It's hard to suggest anything without knowing the context, i.e. hearing the rest of the mix. It sould seem that you don't like the snare in the context of this mix, or are you just freakin out on it when solo'd? What seems like nasty ring when solo'd actually can sound really good within the mix. When I first started out, I would obsess on ringing drums. In the end, I was was making recordings with really dead, lifeless drums.

If you really need to replace it, why not do it the old school way? "Reamp" it. Retune or find a better drum. Suspend a speaker right over the top of it, then mic it up. Send the snare track out to the speaker and re-record it. You'll have to time align if your on a DAW. Might just be the ticket.
Old 9th June 2007
  #20
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Tim Farrant's Avatar
 

How does it sound in the other mics around the kit? Was there a room mic? It may be as simple as using a key-able noise gate to extract the snare from the other mics.

I had one of these recently, much worse than yours, luckily I was able to use the room mic and overheads to obtain a better sound with gating, eq and compression.

Another trick (which might have varying success) is to put it thru a distortion/fuzz plugin to add harmonics, blend this with the original track.

Cheers
Tim.
Old 9th June 2007
  #21
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Solo the snare track to a monitor speaker, and place a snare drum in front of the speaker.
Like magic, the sound waves of the speaker will make the snare sound like it is being hit.
Mic that snare to a new track, and blend it in the mix to taste.
Old 9th June 2007
  #22
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PhatStax Drums's Avatar
 

Sounds like a fairly standard, soloed snare to me. Yes, ringing, not deadened, not the strongest snare sound, perhaps. But really not too bad. In the mix it might be just fine, have you tried it? (probably yes, no doubt, which is why you're here...)

(If so, of course try what the other guys are saying.)

But it doesn't sound all that terrible (to me) as a soloed snare.

Of course it depends on what sound you're after.

Best of luck with it.
Old 9th June 2007
  #23
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CommunityMart's Avatar
 

I don't know anything about mixing.

I think if you do not use a re-amping device or retrack, this is going to be minor eq change. Like, no more than 3 db at 1k. You work with what you got, you cant make sugar out of shnap.
Old 9th June 2007
  #24
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More cowbell?
Old 9th June 2007
  #25
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According to some famous engineer guy I saw at Tape Op Con today, you need Transient Designer, which comes as a hardware unit or plugin. With that, you could accentuate the initial attack of the snare, and then get rid of the decay and add a re-amped snare. The re-amped snare is not going to have much attack, so you combine the two and you have a workable sound. This engineer guy says he uses transient designer on every session, so I guess I'm going to have to get it. Does it ever end?
Old 9th June 2007
  #26
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LaLaFaV's Avatar
 

I think the snare could benefit from the old trick of sending the snare track out to a speaker sitting face down on a snare and micing the snare strainer at the bottom to get more buzz from the snare strainer resonating with each hit from the original track coming through the speaker (phew... long sentence). It sounds choked to me as it is, like that strainer-less timbale sound. It might give it more life. Another idea would be to mic a snare bottom, hit the snare to make a sample and then add that to each hit. If you had Drumagog, it would be very easy.
Old 9th June 2007
  #27
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Tibbon's Avatar
Yea, just sample replace it. Either do it manually with Tab to Transient, or similar... or just use an outboard delay/sampler to do it. With a shortcut in Protools it should take all of 5 minutes to do.
Old 9th June 2007
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by octatonic View Post
More cowbell?
+1


...lol :P
Old 9th June 2007
  #29
It doesn't suck that bad! I'd say compress the crap out of it and gate it real tight.

I like the ring
Old 9th June 2007
  #30
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dlmorley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Parsons View Post
I don't think it's that's bad. What does it sound like in the mix?

if all else fails, tell people that Bob Rock produced it.
LOL!
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