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ADA8200 vs Motu 828mk2 - better AD conversion
Old 1 week ago
  #1
Here for the gear
 

ADA8200 vs Motu 828mk2 - better AD conversion

Hi,
I have the chance to get a Motu 828mk2 for 100€ (or 113USD) and I would know what interface has better AD for line inputs. The Behringer ADA8200 cost around 159€ (180USD). I want to use the unit by ADAT port, to add more inputs to my RME.

Thanks!
Old 1 week ago
  #2
Here for the gear
 

up.
Old 1 week ago
  #3
Gear Addict
Though I haven't heard it, I would guess the Behringer is a bit better mostly based on the fact that it is much more recent (also Behringer make some stuff that's not as bad as ppl think). The 828 MkII was a decent mid level consumer interface back in the day but doesn't sound great by today's standards. I owned one around 2001/02 and found the sound to be brittle.
Old 1 week ago
  #4
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainj View Post
Though I haven't heard it, I would guess the Behringer is a bit better mostly based on the fact that it is much more recent (also Behringer make some stuff that's not as bad as ppl think). The 828 MkII was a decent mid level consumer interface back in the day but doesn't sound great by today's standards. I owned one around 2001/02 and found the sound to be brittle.
Agreed, the ADA8200 uses Cirrus Logic CS4270 AD/DA and NJM4580 op-amps - all perfectly decent modern hardware - and for the first time I've ever heard in a budget Behringer pre - can take hotter signal without the quality falling apart. Some people have complained of slight cross-talk - but I've not experienced that. Given the decent hardware involved - I'd be very surprised if a "prosumer" 18 year old MOTU will be as good - however the MOTU will give you more I/O options and capabilities as well as a MIDI interace.
Old 1 week ago
  #5
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scragend View Post
Agreed, the ADA8200 uses Cirrus Logic CS4270 AD/DA and NJM4580 op-amps - all perfectly decent modern hardware - and for the first time I've ever heard in a budget Behringer pre - can take hotter signal without the quality falling apart. Some people have complained of slight cross-talk - but I've not experienced that. Given the decent hardware involved - I'd be very surprised if a "prosumer" 18 year old MOTU will be as good - however the MOTU will give you more I/O options and capabilities as well as a MIDI interace.
108db of dynamic range according to sos instead of 105db of Behringer.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews...mk3-24io-hd192

In this thread of converters talks about the Motu 828 mk2.

Evaluating AD/DA loops by means of Audio Diffmaker

Really it has a very good results!

Thanks for the response!
Old 1 week ago
  #6
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scragend View Post
Agreed, the ADA8200 uses Cirrus Logic CS4270 AD/DA and NJM4580 op-amps - all perfectly decent modern hardware - and for the first time I've ever heard in a budget Behringer pre - can take hotter signal without the quality falling apart. Some people have complained of slight cross-talk - but I've not experienced that. Given the decent hardware involved - I'd be very surprised if a "prosumer" 18 year old MOTU will be as good - however the MOTU will give you more I/O options and capabilities as well as a MIDI interace.
Isnt the CS4270 a relatively old chip by now?
Old 1 week ago
  #7
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by StupidDisco View Post
Isnt the CS4270 a relatively old chip by now?
IIRR the CS4270 is about 2010, 2005-2008ish onwards is where the game really moved on - there haven't really been any terrible mainstream ADs, DAs or indeed AD/DAs like this since (ignoring low end simple stuff for toys etc!!) as I've said many times on here, modern budget gear is amazing - quieter and better performing than pro stuff 20-25 years ago. Same goes for pre-amps, there's really no such thing as a bad pre-amp these days.
Old 1 week ago
  #8
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scragend View Post
IIRR the CS4270 is about 2010, 2005-2008ish onwards is where the game really moved on - there haven't really been any terrible mainstream ADs, DAs or indeed AD/DAs like this since (ignoring low end simple stuff for toys etc!!) as I've said many times on here, modern budget gear is amazing - quieter and better performing than pro stuff 20-25 years ago. Same goes for pre-amps, there's really no such thing as a bad pre-amp these days.
entry level interfaces offer great value and sound pretty damn good, but there definitely differences in terms of specs that, together with the rest of the circuitry used, are also noticeable in practice in terms of A/D conversion quality / transparency. You can easily test this with a modern digital synth that has a built in audio interface and doesnt have to take an AD/Da route to reach your computer/ daw. If you compare and contrast that with recordings of the same instrument done via external audio interfaces, you will see more clarity gets ‘lost’ with entry level interfaces compared to something a step up. Especially with pianos. Whether it matters musically is personal, but obviously better conversion gives you more control to decide on such alterations yourself.

However I think beyond a price level you see diminishing returns in terms of conversion quality. A 700 dollar clarett, using relatively modern ad da converters and circuitry, competes with stuff that costs thousands of dollars. The remaining differences are mostly in the area (power-user) features and connectivity / software.
Old 1 week ago
  #9
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guybrusha View Post
108db of dynamic range according to sos instead of 105db of Behringer.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews...mk3-24io-hd192

In this thread of converters talks about the Motu 828 mk2.

Evaluating AD/DA loops by means of Audio Diffmaker

Really it has a very good results!

Thanks for the response!
That thread discusses da conversion and not ad?
Old 1 week ago
  #10
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by StupidDisco View Post
entry level interfaces offer great value and sound pretty damn good, but there definitely differences in terms of specs that, together with the rest of the circuitry used, are also noticeable in practice in terms of A/D conversion quality / transparency. You can easily test this with a modern digital synth that has a built in audio interface and doesnt have to take an AD/Da route to reach your computer/ daw. If you compare and contrast that with recordings of the same instrument done via external audio interfaces, you will see more clarity gets ‘lost’ with entry level interfaces compared to something a step up. Especially with pianos. Whether it matters musically is personal, but obviously better conversion gives you more control to decide on such alterations yourself.

However I think beyond a price level you see diminishing returns in terms of conversion quality. A 700 dollar clarett, using relatively modern ad da converters and circuitry, competes with stuff that costs thousands of dollars. The remaining differences are mostly in the area (power-user) features and connectivity / software.
Yes I agree, expensive stuff is better - but does "better" actually matter any more when basic kit is now good enough? The dynamic range and noise floor of budget gear was stuff of dreams 30 years ago. Most people don't even have HiFi's anymore. Will they hear this improved tranparency on a soundbar or bluetooth box or earbuds streaming MP3s? Even if we could tell the difference - 99% of consumers couldn't care less. The loss you're talking about is nothing compared to the loss caused by hitting tape - particularly bad tape or a cheap and/or badly maintained tape machine combined with a nasty noisy desk. The number of small studios I came out of in the 80s and 90s shaking my head at the mind-bogglingly bad sound that didn't seem to bother the people behind the desk! Listen to 80s stuff - where's the analogue warmth people keep raving about? Most 80s recordings sound awful unless they're from a top studio with top engineers. 70s stuff sounds much better because there were fewer small independant studios with so-so kit.

As I've said many times - the vast majority of pop vocals are so heavily saturated (and tuned) these days that you can't actually hear the microphone - let alone the pre-amp. Yes us gear heads love gear - but the consumers of our output wouldn't know good sound quality if it hit them in the face. People (sometimes) buy tracks if they like them - the sound quality - once beyond acceptable - is almost irrelevent. If a particular bit of kit inspires you to make better music then great - go for it - if you need someone else to tell you what sounds good - then don't waste your money - buy the cheapest acceptable kit and just make music.

Kit at any price isn't going to make a good track sound great - only good engineering and mixing will do that. Give a good producer/engineer a whole studio packed with modern budget gear and put a good band in it who can actually play - the result will be a fantastic sounding album. Modern budget kit is not a limiting factor - it's now down to talent (and perhaps access to a decent space to record in - regardless of the kit) just about anything you can buy these days is good enough to make a hit on.

So back to the thread - if you need the features of the MOTU - buy that - if you just need extra ins and outs for your existing interface and money's tight - buy the ADA8200 ++ - it'll do the job and will come with a warranty! I haven't got high end gear - but the last thing I worry about is the sound of my mics, pres or AD/DA conversion - it's all good enough - as it was on my Steinberg UR44 - I just needed more channels. I'm luckily in a position that I can afford (within reason) anything I like - I just don't feel the need to upgrade because I compare the fantastic sound I've got now to the rubbish prosumer-midrange kit I had to cope with two-four decades ago! Budding producers have never had it so good! (gets off soapbox)

++assuming you don't record beyond 48K.
Old 1 week ago
  #11
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scragend View Post
Yes I agree, expensive stuff is better - but does "better" actually matter any more when basic kit is now good enough? The dynamic range and noise floor of budget gear was stuff of dreams 30 years ago. Most people don't even have HiFi's anymore. Will they hear this improved tranparency on a soundbar or bluetooth box or earbuds streaming MP3s? Even if we could tell the difference - 99% of consumers couldn't care less. The loss you're talking about is nothing compared to the loss caused by hitting tape - particularly bad tape or a cheap and/or badly maintained tape machine combined with a nasty noisy desk. The number of small studios I came out of in the 80s and 90s shaking my head at the mind-bogglingly bad sound that didn't seem to bother the people behind the desk! Listen to 80s stuff - where's the analogue warmth people keep raving about? Most 80s recordings sound awful unless they're from a top studio with top engineers. 70s stuff sounds much better because there were fewer small independant studios with so-so kit.

As I've said many times - the vast majority of pop vocals are so heavily saturated (and tuned) these days that you can't actually hear the microphone - let alone the pre-amp. Yes us gear heads love gear - but the consumers of our output wouldn't know good sound quality if it hit them in the face. People (sometimes) buy tracks if they like them - the sound quality - once beyond acceptable - is almost irrelevent. If a particular bit of kit inspires you to make better music then great - go for it - if you need someone else to tell you what sounds good - then don't waste your money - buy the cheapest acceptable kit and just make music.

Kit at any price isn't going to make a good track sound great - only good engineering and mixing will do that. Give a good producer/engineer a whole studio packed with modern budget gear and put a good band in it who can actually play - the result will be a fantastic sounding album. Modern budget kit is not a limiting factor - it's now down to talent (and perhaps access to a decent space to record in - regardless of the kit) just about anything you can buy these days is good enough to make a hit on.

So back to the thread - if you need the features of the MOTU - buy that - if you just need extra ins and outs for your existing interface and money's tight - buy the ADA8200 ++ - it'll do the job and will come with a warranty! I haven't got high end gear - but the last thing I worry about is the sound of my mics, pres or AD/DA conversion - it's all good enough - as it was on my Steinberg UR44 - I just needed more channels. I'm luckily in a position that I can afford (within reason) anything I like - I just don't feel the need to upgrade because I compare the fantastic sound I've got now to the rubbish prosumer-midrange kit I had to cope with two-four decades ago! Budding producers have never had it so good! (gets off soapbox)

++assuming you don't record beyond 48K.
Dont get me wrong, I largely agree with you, and even professional quality can be
recorded with pretty much any audio interface these days. Of course we do live in modern times and I think it’s also fair to acknowledge there are noticeable conversion quality difference between interfaces. Whether that matters in the end will largely depend on what you are going for. On that note, I disagree somewhat on the playback part about most music not being played on hifi. Yes that’s true, but for example, I have 10 dollar earbuds and I can clearly hear the difference between what was recorded on my entry level interfaces and a step up. In fact it gets even more pronounced, especially with piano sounds (their attacks) and other, more complex / mid / high frequency harmonics.
Old 1 week ago
  #12
I would probably go with the Behringer just for the fact that its new and can still be serviced. The 828mk2s were great in 2004 when they came out, Im still using mine to this day as my interface (with an ADA8200 connected to it go figure). Theyre getting old, and dont sound that great compared to anything that's come out in the last 10 years, and some of the proprietary parts inside cant be replaced anymore if they die. If all you need is an extra 8 channels over ADAT just get the ADA.
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