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AKG P220 or MXL v67g
Old 4th May 2019
  #1
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jhawkn's Avatar
 

AKG P220 or MXL v67g

Hi all,

Really, this is actually between the P220, as stated, and the t.bone SC-450. The SC-450 is basically the MXL v67g, but with a pad and HPF at 100Hz (the P220’s HPF is a little higher at 300Hz).

The SC-450 also has a more traditional circuit board, rather than the P220’s surface mounted components—this makes the SC-450 a better candidate for modding, if I’m ever so inclined.

Wondering if you had any advice on which mic I should choose? The AKG P220 would be about $20-30 cheaper. I’m located in the US.
Old 6th May 2019
  #2
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jhawkn's Avatar
 

*cricket chirps*

Anyone?

This would be for vocals, acoustic guitar, and guitar amps. Maybe a bass amp and an old Wurlitzer organ too.
Old 6th May 2019
  #3
Lives for gear
I’d prefer the AKG, especially if it is cheaper.
The AKG “P” mics are surprisingly good-sounding. I haven’t heard the Tbone or MXL mics that you mention. I have owned a few MXL mics, but no Tbones.

A problem with asking for recommendations or comparisons of low end mics is that a lot of the pro ears on these forums are unlikely to have used cheap mics in a long time, much less likely that they would have used the specific two cheap mics you mention.

I would be interested if chessparov has any input. He loves to find and use bargain mics, and seems to have a good ear for the qualities of various mics.
Hopefully, including chessparov’s name will invoke him to show up... kind of a Beetlejuice effect.
Old 6th May 2019
  #4
Lives for gear
 

Thanks! I'll chime in during my lunch, pretty soon. Chris
Old 6th May 2019
  #5
Gear Nut
While the AKG P220 isn't bad, it still is k67 based. So that's a big no-no if you want to do professional level work. I think the mxl v67g or t-bone in this case isn't bad, however the mxl v67i is way better than either of these microphone.
Old 6th May 2019
  #6
Lives for gear
 

Ironically, my favorite vocal microphone, out of all the Perception series (SR16 drumroll please)...

It's the (black) AKG P120! Pancake flat, with a moderate air bump around 12 KHz. Very honest.

More soon, plus some El Cheapo favorite vocal mics, that tell some "sweet little lies"-the way I like.

EDIT: Here are my favorite vocal condenser microphones, in Low End...
$100 or less-AKG P120 (black)
$200 or less-used Oktava 219 or 319 (Guitar Center is a good source for these-45 day return policy)
$300 or less-new Oktava MK-119 (219 housed in smaller 319-ish body, supposedly with factory upgraded internals).
$400 or less-new Vanguard V4 multi-pattern FET. (based on their V13 tube mic)

IMHO the AKG 200/400 series are generally "good" on voice, and better still on podcasting/VO.

Sorry, never tried any MXL V67's.
Chris
Old 6th May 2019
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EisaMo View Post
While the AKG P220 isn't bad, it still is k67 based. So that's a big no-no if you want to do professional level work. I think the mxl v67g or t-bone in this case isn't bad, however the mxl v67i is way better than either of these microphone.
With all due respect, the U87, which is on countless records... is based on the K67.
Personally, however, I tend to prefer the K47 (or M7) capsule over it in High End microphones.

I agree with past posts of the esteemed mic modder, Michael Joly, that the Oktava's I listed above, have a smooth U47-ish vibe.
Closer than the AT4047 FWIW.

Here's me on a stock Oktava 319, on one of the main songs, that was in the new "A Star Is Born" movie...
Chris
Attached Files

Song 60oldwaysdie319final.wav (1.57 MB, 381 views)

Old 6th May 2019
  #8
Lives for gear
 

OK, here are two vocal acapella examples, on the AKG (black) P120 below...
(sorry, that the second one has much lower volume)
Chris
Attached Files

Song 73ImgonnaloveyouP120.mp3 (482.8 KB, 565 views)

Track 1imgonnafinal.wav (1.33 MB, 371 views)

Old 7th May 2019
  #9
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
With all due respect, the U87, which is on countless records... is based on the K67.
Personally, however, I tend to prefer the K47 (or M7) capsule over it in High End microphones.
Chris
With all due respect, I guess many Neumann microphones are "technically" k67 based since that's what they use by default. By k67 based I mean most non-Neumann microphones. And yes, technically there are also above $1000 usd k67 based, non-neumann microphones that are good quality, but I don't mean those microphone either. Also, if we talk about the capsule in specific, it's somewhat harsh, which is why all the cheap k67 clones don't sound that great with their cheap-o electronics.
Old 7th May 2019
  #10
Lives for gear
 

Yes, I agree "most" of the Chinese K67's out there-with budget microphones...
Do tend to sound "harsh", and the internals don't help.

Lack of a Neumann's HF style attenutation circuit, is the main culprit usually.
Despite the AKG 200/400's slavish attempt of that circuit, it effectively only reduces the high end harshness by around 2db.

I have the new Soundelux U195, and David Bock did a terrific job on its K67 capsule. Easily comparable to the U87ai now.
Chris
Old 7th May 2019
  #11
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by EisaMo View Post
With all due respect, I guess many Neumann microphones are "technically" k67 based since that's what they use by default. By k67 based I mean most non-Neumann microphones. And yes, technically there are also above $1000 usd k67 based, non-neumann microphones that are good quality, but I don't mean those microphone either. Also, if we talk about the capsule in specific, it's somewhat harsh, which is why all the cheap k67 clones don't sound that great with their cheap-o electronics.
“With all due respect...” is most often a passive/aggressive phrase indicating a lack of respect.
And I say that with almost complete neutrality between respect and disrespect.
Old 7th May 2019
  #12
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Good point. I always strive to give the "benefit of the doubt", in responding to posts.

For all I know (or don't know), EisaMo's level of understanding could be quite deeper than mine.

If I'm addressing a bona fide "microphone genius" (like Klaus Heyne or David Bock), more than once I have used the "with all due respect" phrase in deference. Including in person, with David!
Chris
Old 7th May 2019
  #13
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BTW I'm planning to give a close friend of mine, my AKG 200 this Summer, when she visits.
It'll be a good VO mic for her to record on.

Otherwise it would have been fun to mod it.
Originally I was thinking of throwing in, Advanced Audio's version of a K47.

The MXL V87 is a nice U87-ish microphone, that can be had for under $200 new. Very low self noise/nice quiet circuitry. I prefer the Oktava's with their less modern/vintage sound though.
(giving my V87 as a gift, to another friend-am paring things down!)

Advanced Audio's version of the vintage U87i,
for around $300, is reputed to be good sounding too.
Chris
Old 7th May 2019
  #14
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jhawkn's Avatar
 

Many thanks everyone! Hmmm...the P120? I will have to consider that one. At the price they’re going for, maybe I’d be better off getting an additional dynamic mic. I’ll have to stew a little.

As always, it’s very helpful to hear others experiences!
Old 7th May 2019
  #15
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Well...
I have to admit I blast mine with plugins, to make it sound less honest and more retro "vintage"!
Chris
Old 7th May 2019
  #16
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MarkF48's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhawkn View Post
Many thanks everyone! Hmmm...the P120? I will have to consider that one. At the price they’re going for, maybe I’d be better off getting an additional dynamic mic. I’ll have to stew a little.

As always, it’s very helpful to hear others experiences!
I would recommend the P220 rather than the P120. The P220 is transformer coupled, the P120 is not. Most of my preferred mics I use for vocals are transformer coupled which seem to give a bit more 'weight'/'warmth' to a recording.

My first LDC was the V67g which I still have. I later acquired a Perception 200 which is an earlier relative of the P220. I would likely use the Perception 200 before the V67g.

http://recordinghacks.com/microphone...Acoustics/P220
http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/MXL/V67G
http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/t.bone/SC-450
http://recordinghacks.com/microphone...Acoustics/P120


Check your PM inbox.

Last edited by MarkF48; 7th May 2019 at 01:32 PM..
Old 7th May 2019
  #17
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My main caveat with the 200/400 series, is the frequency bump, which can accentuate "breathiness"... And to a somewhat lesser extent, sibilance. If you check out "Bandrew's" Channel videos, on YouTube, Podcaststage (IIRC)-He talks about this.
Chris
Old 13th May 2019
  #18
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Well, I ended up jumping for the AKG P220. Altogether (including tax + shipping) it was $80 used from ProAudioStar. Should receive it sometime in the coming week.
Old 13th May 2019
  #19
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That's a good buy. If need be, it does take de-essing pretty well. Chris
Old 13th May 2019
  #20
Gear Addict
$80 used isn't too bad. But I think both mics are pretty similar, both K67 clones that don't have enough HF roll off to get the flat sound you'd expect from Neumann style capsules. That said they'll still work pretty well as long as the performance is good.
Old 13th May 2019
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dohreetoh View Post
I think both mics are pretty similar, both K67 clones that don't have enough HF roll off to get the flat sound you'd expect from Neumann style capsules.
Is the MXL 2003 also a K67 clone? I recently moved some stuff around and was reminded that I have two of these that I haven’t used much in ten years. There seem to be two published frequency plots; one is screamingly bright, one is relatively flat. I thought they were good entry LDCs, but they moved to the back of the locker as I bought more LDCs.
Sorry to turn off topic.
Old 13th May 2019
  #22
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
Is the MXL 2003 also a K67 clone? I recently moved some stuff around and was reminded that I have two of these that I haven’t used much in ten years. There seem to be two published frequency plots; one is screamingly bright, one is relatively flat. I thought they were good entry LDCs, but they moved to the back of the locker as I bought more LDCs.
Sorry to turn off topic.
All of the cheap MXLs I know of use K67 style capsules or KM84 capsules. Some of them use a Schoeps circuit like the 990/770/SP1 and some like the 2001/V67G and whatever other variants of that design use a combination of a U87 and C414 inspired circuit. Some of them are flatter than others though, either through higher quality capsules or different components. The 2003 might be one of the ones that are or were made by 797 who makes a nice K67 capsule as far as Chinese capsules go, because it's already partially tuned to have the brightness down (their K67 capsule doesn't have the huge lift from 5-10k like a lot of other ones, instead it's got a broad boost like the TLM 103 but a bit brighter). I'm not really an electronics guy though, I can't even pick up a soldering iron without burning myself (I can solder wires just fine, but I can't remove a capacitor that isn't hand soldered for the life of me).

There's nothing wrong with a bright mic if that's what you're after though. I actually really like the scooped AKG sound that their older mics had.

MXL also has some okay tube mics, but for the cost of their multipattern ones I'd just get the iSK 2B Beauty.
Old 13th May 2019
  #23
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dohreetoh View Post
All of the cheap MXLs I know of use K67 style capsules l
2001/V67G and whatever other variants of that design use a combination of a U87 and C414 inspired circuit. Some of them are flatter than others though, either through higher quality capsules or different components. The 2003 might be one of the ones that are or were made by 797 who makes a nice K67 capsule as far as Chinese capsules go, because it's already partially tuned to have the brightness down (their K67 capsule doesn't have the huge lift from 5-10k like a lot of other ones, instead it's got a broad boost like the TLM 103 but a bit brighter).
Thanks. Contemporary reviews identified the original 2003 as a 797 product.
Old 17th May 2019
  #24
Gear Maniac
 
KickDrum's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EisaMo View Post
...I think the mxl v67g or t-bone in this case isn't bad, however the mxl v67i is way better than either of these microphone.
My first LDC microphone was a MXL V67i, which I later gave to my brother. I've thought about getting the V67g because they are so cheap now and I used to only really use the "warm" side of the V67i anyways. What is the difference the "warm" side of the V67i and the V67g, if anything, in your experience?
Old 18th May 2019
  #25
Gear Nut
The warm capsule on the v67i is what sets it apart from the other mxl stuff. it's extremely versatile when put up against multiple sound sources. It's a all-rounder.
Old 18th May 2019
  #26
Gear Maniac
 
KickDrum's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EisaMo View Post
The warm capsule on the v67i is what sets it apart from the other mxl stuff. it's extremely versatile when put up against multiple sound sources. It's a all-rounder.
Agreed, but is the warm side of the V67i the same as V67g?
Old 18th May 2019
  #27
Gear Nut
As far as I know, not at all. They sound very different. http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/MXL/V67G here's a little summary sheet for the v67g. Although i know the v67g does have a color of it's own.
Old 19th May 2019
  #28
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by EisaMo View Post
As far as I know, not at all. They sound very different. http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/MXL/V67G here's a little summary sheet for the v67g. Although i know the v67g does have a color of it's own.
The frequency responses look similar. So it should be similar but it might not be the same. The warm capsule might actually be darker, with the same frequencies boosted like the V67G but by a smaller amount.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #29
Gear Addict
 

I've read everything I can find about the 200/220/4xx and would take them over any low budget equivalent. Even mod sites are saying there's no reason to swap the capsule.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #30
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by bangbang View Post
I've read everything I can find about the 200/220/4xx and would take them over any low budget equivalent. Even mod sites are saying there's no reason to swap the capsule.
There's no reason to change the capsule because the issue is in the circuit. There's not enough high frequency attenuation to give it a proper U87 sound.
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