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The Truth about Plugins. Dynamics Plugins
Old 22nd March 2019
  #1
Gear Maniac
The Truth about Plugins.

This is a post for total beginners who are where I was a couple years ago, totally new to plugins and not knowing where to start.

There is a lot of marketing out there. Online blogs and articles written by a company that makes plugins is, of course, going to advertise their plugin. A portion of Youtube audio guides are also created or sponsored by companies. This is not necessarily a bad thing; some of these guides do have some very good tips in them, but just be aware.

Once you learn what the plugins actually do, they become less exotic and seen as tools. A compressor, for example, reduces volume by a ratio after the threshold is exceeded, and are additionally controlled by attack and release times. There's no secret sauce; a compressor is a mathematical algorithm that affects the dynamics. A free one will do the job; a $50 compressor will also do the job. Would you buy a $50 scientific calculator app for your computer when there are free ones?

There are websites that sell $200 EQ plugins, and we should be realistic about this; is a +2db high shelf on a $200 plugin really going to sound different than a +2db high shelf on a stock plugin.

What do you get when you buy a premium plugin?
* Graphics/aesthetics
* Presets
* Maybe a more comfortable ; user-friendly interface (subjective; depends on your tastes)
* Maybe some little QOL features

What you won't really get from them is better sound quality or better mixes. That can really only be acquired by spending a lot of time learning and practicing.

The honest truth is that if your mixes aren't sounding great with your DAW's stock plugins, they're not going to be great with premium plugins.

When I first started, I was driven by novelty of collecting new plugins, but once I realized they mostly all do the same things, I'm not really wow'ed by new plugins anymore but rather excited in learning how to fully utilize them.

What the "buy this plugin and your mix sounds good" misses is context. It's not even a matter of having a plugin make a particular track sound inherently better but about how individual tracks congeal together. Are the volume levels balanced? Do they all have room to breathe of the frequency spectrum or are they competing for the same frequencies? Additionally, techniques and features within the DAW itself such as automation, panning, busses, sends and more are truly worth learning.

Before buying plugins, it's truly worth it to explore every feature your DAW has to offer. There are a lot of them that beginners may overlook.

This last bit will sound very trite and cliche, but it's honestly 100% true and can't be stated enough: Get the material recorded correctly from the source (with good technique, mic placement and recording environment. Saying "this recording isn't the best it could be; but i can just fix this problem with plugins later. Using plugins to polish a mediocre recording will result in a lot of additional time consumption but for very limited benefit.
Old 22nd March 2019
  #2
Quote:
Originally Posted by minervx View Post
The honest truth is that if your mixes aren't sounding great with your DAW's stock plugins, they're not going to be great with premium plugins.
It's not 100% truth.

Old 22nd March 2019
  #3
Lives for gear
 
bgood's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by minervx View Post
This is a post for total beginners who are where I was a couple years ago, totally new to plugins and not knowing where to start.

There is a lot of marketing out there. Online blogs and articles written by a company that makes plugins is, of course, going to advertise their plugin. A portion of Youtube audio guides are also created or sponsored by companies. This is not necessarily a bad thing; some of these guides do have some very good tips in them, but just be aware.

Once you learn what the plugins actually do, they become less exotic and seen as tools. A compressor, for example, reduces volume by a ratio after the threshold is exceeded, and are additionally controlled by attack and release times. There's no secret sauce; a compressor is a mathematical algorithm that affects the dynamics. A free one will do the job; a $50 compressor will also do the job. Would you buy a $50 scientific calculator app for your computer when there are free ones?

There are websites that sell $200 EQ plugins, and we should be realistic about this; is a +2db high shelf on a $200 plugin really going to sound different than a +2db high shelf on a stock plugin.

What do you get when you buy a premium plugin?
* Graphics/aesthetics
* Presets
* Maybe a more comfortable ; user-friendly interface (subjective; depends on your tastes)
* Maybe some little QOL features

What you won't really get from them is better sound quality or better mixes. That can really only be acquired by spending a lot of time learning and practicing.

The honest truth is that if your mixes aren't sounding great with your DAW's stock plugins, they're not going to be great with premium plugins.

When I first started, I was driven by novelty of collecting new plugins, but once I realized they mostly all do the same things, I'm not really wow'ed by new plugins anymore but rather excited in learning how to fully utilize them.

What the "buy this plugin and your mix sounds good" misses is context. It's not even a matter of having a plugin make a particular track sound inherently better but about how individual tracks congeal together. Are the volume levels balanced? Do they all have room to breathe of the frequency spectrum or are they competing for the same frequencies? Additionally, techniques and features within the DAW itself such as automation, panning, busses, sends and more are truly worth learning.

Before buying plugins, it's truly worth it to explore every feature your DAW has to offer. There are a lot of them that beginners may overlook.

This last bit will sound very trite and cliche, but it's honestly 100% true and can't be stated enough: Get the material recorded correctly from the source (with good technique, mic placement and recording environment. Saying "this recording isn't the best it could be; but i can just fix this problem with plugins later. Using plugins to polish a mediocre recording will result in a lot of additional time consumption but for very limited benefit.
I like the spirit of your post, but, respectfully, the spirit is the one thing that you got 100% right. Some DAWs have better stock plugs than others... not everybody is working with stuff they recorded... if you’re colloborating you often have to suck it up and have a common library of plugins so you can swap sessions with others...

Theoretically, you could could be an ace engineer and only have to throw a couple stock eq’s and compressors on an entire mix, but, I can’t remember seeing a session run like that going back to the days of cool edit pro 96...

Stock plugins are almost certainly good enough to learn on and handle most broad strokes even when you’ve got you’ve got your big boy mixer wings I suppose
Old 22nd March 2019
  #4
Gear Maniac
The spirit and intent doesn't matter - it's only the raw practical utility that matters.

If a paid plugin does offers a feature that's not offered at all by any of the free plugins, it's sensible to buy it. But in many (not allcases, premium plugins are the same thing but with an aesthetic coat of paint). Often, either analog to evoke nostalgia or a futuristic sci-fi look to evoke a feeling of expensiveness.

Quote:
Some DAWs have better stock plugs than others...
The plugins in Reaper, Pro Tools, Studio One, Logic Pro and FL Studio are fine. Which do you think are lacking?

Quote:
not everybody is working with stuff they recorded...
if you’re colloborating you often have to suck it up and have a common library of plugins so you can swap sessions with others...
This is a valid reason. It doesn't have anything directly to do with the sound quality itself. This reasoning hinges on 1) software compatibility and 2) popularity. But it is beneficial to have a lot of the major plugins just if clients send you tracks with them already on.

I wrote this post for beginners though. I really don't think any beginners would be at this point yet where they're mixing other peoples tracks, and beginners, have a lot more important places to put their money into; they still need to build the studio itself.

Quote:
Theoretically, you could could be an ace engineer and only have to throw a couple stock eq’s and compressors on an entire mix
A lot of oversimplification. The stock plugins of the major DAW's include a lot more than just EQ and Compressors. And I'm not sure why mixing with stock or free plugins would be oversimplified to "just throw some eq and compression on it". They work very similarly if not identically to the paid ones.

Exactly what handicaps do free Compressors/EQ's/ over

Quote:
Stock plugins are almost certainly good enough to learn on and handle most broad strokes even when you’ve got you’ve got your big boy mixer wings I suppose
Again, what does this mean? It's a very vague sentence that doesn't really offer much content behind it.

How exactly would a Waves/Fabfilter/T-Racks/etc. compressor would affect the sound any differently?

If I set the attack, release, threshold, ratio, knee, and makeup gain to the exact amounts on both a stock compressor and a premium compressor, tell me exactly what difference they would have to the sound?
Old 22nd March 2019
  #5
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by minervx View Post

The honest truth is that if your mixes aren't sounding great with your DAW's stock plugins, they're not going to be great with premium plugins.
The truth is if your mixes aren't sounding great when you simply push up your faders and nothing more - then something went wrong at the writing, tracking, performing stage!

From that point the job is to take "great" to "world class" at which point you want to have access to the best possible tools you can afford - whatever you judge those to be.
Old 22nd March 2019
  #6
Gear Addict
 

There is a huge difference between most stock and hi end plugins.
It's like saying a Toyota handles turns just like a Ferrari. They both have 4 wheels, an engine, brakes etc... They do the same thing but very differently.
Regards
Old 22nd March 2019
  #7
Lives for gear
 
stinkyfingers's Avatar
 

Old 22nd March 2019
  #8
Lives for gear
 
b0se's Avatar
While the sentiment is spot on, I have to disagree to a degree; I've spent (too much) time comparing plugins and there are differences in how they sound. The better your monitoring chain (including room), the more differences you'll be able to hear.

A +3dB high shelf via the DAW, Pro Q3, CraveEQ or Equilibrium will sound different. Same if you cut 3dB at 400Hz, or boost the lows by 3dB.

For those that work with stems tracked (well) through top gear, the plugins matter less. For those generating the majority ITB (synths and such), plugins can make quite a difference.

Having said that, I also agree—100%—with the key point; your music will not be held back (success wise) by using stock plugins (to a high standard). Music first!
Old 22nd March 2019
  #9
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
A +3dB high shelf via the DAW, Pro Q3, CraveEQ or Equilibrium will sound different. Same if you cut 3dB at 400Hz, or boost the lows by 3dB. !
How exactly do you quantifiably measure these differences (of actual changes in information in the sound file)? Do you use a spectral analyzer or a specific software?


If it's done purely through human perception, is it a blind comparison?
Old 22nd March 2019
  #10
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by minervx View Post
How exactly do you quantifiably measure these differences (of actual changes in information in the sound file)? Do you use a spectral analyzer or a specific software?


If it's done purely through human perception, is it a blind comparison?
Ears should be enough. Just try it.
Old 22nd March 2019
  #11
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioloud View Post
Ears should be enough. Just try it.
But ears are attached to brains, which are colored by preconceptions. They are subjective little beasts, ears. They are capable of hearing what they want to hear.

I'm not arguing that there are no differences between plugins, but if you want to demonstrate the differences I do think you need to demonstrate them with spectrograms or some other type of unbiased measurement tool.
Old 22nd March 2019
  #12
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradh View Post
But ears are attached to brains, which are colored by preconceptions. They are subjective little beasts, ears. They are capable of hearing what they want to hear.

I'm not arguing that there are no differences between plugins, but if you want to demonstrate the differences I do think you need to demonstrate them with spectrograms or some other type of unbiased measurement tool.
Sure you can do all the tests you want but if you tried it instead of discussing it you would understand what we mean right away. (Just grab a demo of a hi end plugin and compare it, it should take 5 minutes)
regards
Old 22nd March 2019
  #13
Lives for gear
 
b0se's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by minervx View Post
How exactly do you quantifiably measure these differences (of actual changes in information in the sound file)? Do you use a spectral analyzer or a specific software?

If it's done purely through human perception, is it a blind comparison?
I always use blind testing now (due from learning the hard way that it's all too easy to fool yourself into new purchases), especially when comparing HW vs SW.

Having said that, the difference between Pro Q3 and CraveEQ is quite obvious.
Old 22nd March 2019
  #14
GOR
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by minervx View Post
What do you get when you buy a premium plugin?
* Graphics/aesthetics
* Presets
* Maybe a more comfortable ; user-friendly interface (subjective; depends on your tastes)
* Maybe some little QOL features
Support. Plugin formats that may be linked to fees. I think also brighter feature set (having FabFilter in mind).
Old 22nd March 2019
  #15
Lives for gear
Some plugins help workflow and are easier to get your head around certain techniques rather than just sounding better. Reaper's multi-band compressor and de-esser are terrible. JS Saturation plugin has to be stacked. ReaEQ doesn't have High/Low-pass slopes.

Apple's free stock GraphicEQ is great. I love free stuff. FabFilter plugins sound more musical because I have more control over the details. At least my demo copy.
Old 24th March 2019
  #16
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioloud View Post
There is a huge difference between most stock and hi end plugins.
It's like saying a Toyota handles turns just like a Ferrari. They both have 4 wheels, an engine, brakes etc... They do the same thing but very differently.
Regards
Yeah, I agree. There are a lot of perks to having a Ferrari; it looks good, it feels good to use; it's comfortable; a lot of little QOL features. Maybe it's good for racing but 99% of people probably aren't buying it for that. Mainly, it succeeds in making the buyer happy and feel important.

In terms of additional utility or sound quality that free plugins can't provide, most of the paid plugins out there aren't really offering anything new.

However, where I draw the line is when we have plugins with really dated GUI's at low resolutions that look like they're from the 1990's and then companies charge top dollar for them (i.e. Waves Renaissance line and Maag EQ4). You figure for that money, you'd get something that's at least in HD. Some of the plugins looks and feel great to use; but a lot of them don't even have the Ferrari feel to them.
Old 24th March 2019
  #17
Lives for gear
 
chrischoir's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by minervx View Post
This is a post for total beginners who are where I was a couple years ago, totally new to plugins and not knowing where to start.

There is a lot of marketing out there. Online blogs and articles written by a company that makes plugins is, of course, going to advertise their plugin. A portion of Youtube audio guides are also created or sponsored by companies. This is not necessarily a bad thing; some of these guides do have some very good tips in them, but just be aware.

Once you learn what the plugins actually do, they become less exotic and seen as tools. A compressor, for example, reduces volume by a ratio after the threshold is exceeded, and are additionally controlled by attack and release times. There's no secret sauce; a compressor is a mathematical algorithm that affects the dynamics. A free one will do the job; a $50 compressor will also do the job. Would you buy a $50 scientific calculator app for your computer when there are free ones?

There are websites that sell $200 EQ plugins, and we should be realistic about this; is a +2db high shelf on a $200 plugin really going to sound different than a +2db high shelf on a stock plugin.

What do you get when you buy a premium plugin?
* Graphics/aesthetics
* Presets
* Maybe a more comfortable ; user-friendly interface (subjective; depends on your tastes)
* Maybe some little QOL features

What you won't really get from them is better sound quality or better mixes. That can really only be acquired by spending a lot of time learning and practicing.

The honest truth is that if your mixes aren't sounding great with your DAW's stock plugins, they're not going to be great with premium plugins.

When I first started, I was driven by novelty of collecting new plugins, but once I realized they mostly all do the same things, I'm not really wow'ed by new plugins anymore but rather excited in learning how to fully utilize them.

What the "buy this plugin and your mix sounds good" misses is context. It's not even a matter of having a plugin make a particular track sound inherently better but about how individual tracks congeal together. Are the volume levels balanced? Do they all have room to breathe of the frequency spectrum or are they competing for the same frequencies? Additionally, techniques and features within the DAW itself such as automation, panning, busses, sends and more are truly worth learning.

Before buying plugins, it's truly worth it to explore every feature your DAW has to offer. There are a lot of them that beginners may overlook.

This last bit will sound very trite and cliche, but it's honestly 100% true and can't be stated enough: Get the material recorded correctly from the source (with good technique, mic placement and recording environment. Saying "this recording isn't the best it could be; but i can just fix this problem with plugins later. Using plugins to polish a mediocre recording will result in a lot of additional time consumption but for very limited benefit.
with the exception of reverb plugins and a few select modeling plugins, you are pretty much spot on
Old 24th March 2019
  #18
Gear Maniac
 

I see your point but I’m at the point where different plugins are different flavors to me. I can hear the difference in the output of a compressed signal from Vulf Comp, Logic Comp, and El Rey for example. I choose the plugs what have the artistic feeling I want. Yes they all do the same thing functionally but they color the sounds in unique ways.
Old 24th March 2019
  #19
I agree with many of the original poster's points. A great mix is about balance (fader, EQ etc.), dynamics, and tasteful FX, which you can get with stock plugins. No doubt about that. Though to me some plugins are helpful to get some particular "sound". Compressors are one of them. I don't consider compressors to be just a tool for controlling dynamics. So I am not that technical about compressors.
Old 24th March 2019
  #20
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by minervx View Post
Yeah, I agree. There are a lot of perks to having a Ferrari; it looks good, it feels good to use; it's comfortable; a lot of little QOL features. Maybe it's good for racing but 99% of people probably aren't buying it for that. Mainly, it succeeds in making the buyer happy and feel important.
.
The pros out there ARE racing.
Every day racing against ourselves and racing against the fierce competition of other engineers. So we NEED the Ferraris. We need the performance.
We don't mind the looks even though a nice looking thing to stare at everyday isn't certainly a negative thing.
As for driving to the grocery store and driving the kids to school, the Toyota would do just fine.
So yes, for semi pro or hobby use you could have only stock plugins surely.

Regards
Old 25th March 2019
  #21
Gear Maniac
The stock plugins on most DAWs are very good any won't hold anyone back. To me, aftermarket plugins are more about better workflow and/or specific hardware emulation. Make no bones about it though, a decent producer could churn out a hit sounding track with stock plugins on any DAW - there's loads of superb freeware out there too. (Limiter No6 by VladgSound is simply brilliant for instance.) The sonic difference between top-end plugins and stock ones really are deep into diminishing returns territory. That said, my most used plugins are from UAD and SoundToys.

In hindsight I would probably only have bought 20% of the hundreds of plugins I own. The most important thing with any plugin is using it until you understand it, no point dipping in and out of loads of plugins – you’ll never find the sweet-spot with any of them. Pick an EQ – learn it well, pick a reverb – learn it well etc etc.
Old 25th March 2019
  #22
Lives for gear
 
Poinzy's Avatar
 

Nice doc.

Unfortunately, the intended audience will eventually have to drop their gamepads and do a forum search to find it. Might as well drop the post in a sinkhole.
Old 25th March 2019
  #23
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wo1 View Post
It's not 100% truth.

Yeah. More like 99%ish.

Like various others I agree with the gist of the OP but not to quite that absolute degree. Some plugins can be better than others for various reasons, but for things like the features they offer, how well the UI was designed, etc. But the pricier ones aren't necessarily better; in fact, the cheaper or free ones can match or out-perform the trendy, pricey ones. And forgive stating this obvious fact yet again, but it's worth underlining that the skill of the user is far, far more important. You absolutely can make excellent, professional-level recordings with stock and other free plugins. If you can't, buying fancier, pricier ones won't change that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by audioloud View Post
There is a huge difference between most stock and hi end plugins.
It's like saying a Toyota handles turns just like a Ferrari.
Not really. A better analogy would be saying Toyotas offer just as much quality workmanship as Ferraris.

Which of course isn't true. Toyotas win that bet.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Poinzy View Post
Nice doc.

Unfortunately, the intended audience will eventually have to drop their gamepads and do a forum search to find it. Might as well drop the post in a sinkhole.
? So you're saying beginners will never see this? Because....? I suspect numerous beginners visit this site on a fairly regular basis, so again while I don't agree with the OP entirely, it's a valid and worthwhile post. If you mean this should have gone in the "Newbie audio" area, though, I agree w/that.
Old 25th March 2019
  #24
Gear Nut
 

let me just say this, there are a lot of statements in this thread from people that know how to USE plugins - so I can respect their opinions, but that doesn´t make any of that FACTS.

how many people here know how to PROGRAM (!) plugins ?

because I´d genuinely like to hear from them, instead of more uninformed speculations.

(not trying to piss on anyone's parade, but a lot of this is... not helpful. not WRONG, but not helpful either.)
Old 25th March 2019
  #25
Gear Guru
Open this up to free plug ins also. Just fine! That being said I use my "premium" ones in every session. Choose carefully tho. You can spend a lot of money on impulse buys. There are also a ton of great options around $10-30-. GS is full of threads about this....
Old 26th March 2019
  #26
Quote:
Originally Posted by wo1 View Post
It's not 100% truth.

reaEQ held up very well - I'm actually surprised.
Old 26th March 2019
  #27
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverb View Post
reaEQ held up very well - I'm actually surprised.
A lot of Reaper's stock stuff is pretty solid. I use the gate pretty often and they have a few interesting tools that I haven't seen much in other DAWs.
Old 26th March 2019
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by minervx View Post
The spirit and intent doesn't matter - it's only the raw practical utility that matters.

If a paid plugin does offers a feature that's not offered at all by any of the free plugins, it's sensible to buy it. But in many (not allcases, premium plugins are the same thing but with an aesthetic coat of paint). Often, either analog to evoke nostalgia or a futuristic sci-fi look to evoke a feeling of expensiveness.



The plugins in Reaper, Pro Tools, Studio One, Logic Pro and FL Studio are fine. Which do you think are lacking?



This is a valid reason. It doesn't have anything directly to do with the sound quality itself. This reasoning hinges on 1) software compatibility and 2) popularity. But it is beneficial to have a lot of the major plugins just if clients send you tracks with them already on.

I wrote this post for beginners though. I really don't think any beginners would be at this point yet where they're mixing other peoples tracks, and beginners, have a lot more important places to put their money into; they still need to build the studio itself.



A lot of oversimplification. The stock plugins of the major DAW's include a lot more than just EQ and Compressors. And I'm not sure why mixing with stock or free plugins would be oversimplified to "just throw some eq and compression on it". They work very similarly if not identically to the paid ones.

Exactly what handicaps do free Compressors/EQ's/ over


Again, what does this mean? It's a very vague sentence that doesn't really offer much content behind it.

How exactly would a Waves/Fabfilter/T-Racks/etc. compressor would affect the sound any differently?

If I set the attack, release, threshold, ratio, knee, and makeup gain to the exact amounts on both a stock compressor and a premium compressor, tell me exactly what difference they would have to the sound?
Some have some other processing affecting the sound - MJUC or the UAD 1176 for example - there is a lot of other coloration going on there.
Old 26th March 2019
  #29
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by minervx View Post
T
What you won't really get from them is better sound quality
nonsense
there are plenty of plugs that sound different from other plugs in the same category. And if they sound different, that means they can sound better. I have a number of plug-ins whose graphics are worse than some other plug, but sound a lot better.

Quote:
or better mixes.
To get better mixes, you do have to know what you are doing. But one of the steps in knowing what you are doing is to take the time to listen to your tools and choose the best sounding ones.
Quote:
The honest truth is that if your mixes aren't sounding great with your DAW's stock plugins, they're not going to be great with premium plugins..
I teach audio production classes at the college level. Many times when preparing a lesson for my students I do a mix with the stock Pro Tool plug-ins only, so that they can open the session 100%. These are often the same songs that I have mixed before using my own, very carefully curated set of plugins. This is a particular 'experiment' that I find myself doing all the time. I can get a nice mix with the stock stuff, but I get a better mix with "my" stuff.

Good gravy, reverb alone... My worst 3rd-party reverb sounds twice as good as the stock PT reverb. That's not a 'control' thing or a 'workflow' thing or a 'comfort thing' or an 'ease of use thing'. Reverb is entirely a sound thing.

But even "workflow" matters. The quicker you work the more your creative ideas can flow. Now certainly for most newbies, stock plugins are hardly their weakest link. They should have their mics and preamps sorted and their skills up to par.

But this is an argument for Newbies to be prioritizing their purchases. A blanket statement that better tools won't give you better sound quality is incorrect.
Old 26th March 2019
  #30
Gear Guru
Tell you what. Get a trial for Slate, Kush, and Airwindows. Take the same song and mix only using each suite of plug ins. I can guarantee you the tools will effect the mix and they will sound much different. Use some reverb like the same Vahalla reverb for all three just to keep it focused on the plug ins. Do one with stock and free plug ins and you will have 4 mixes that I bet will all sound great in very different ways.......
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