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Choosing the right dynamic microphone
Old 14th December 2018
  #31
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Not enough experience with that microphone, for me to judge. If anything, generally I prefer their VO arch rivals EV and Shure as far as tone.
Of the established brands IMHO, for the least amount of money, The M88 is usually the best "bang for the buck".

Phil Collins sold "a few (zillion) records" using his M88 for studio vocals FWIW.
Sounded like an expen$ive Neumann...
Chris
Old 14th December 2018
  #32
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edva's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmiller5 View Post
a dynamic will have to do for now due to the fact that I can't put up any acoustic treatment.

Im not sure whether the M88s improved 'room rejection' would be that much of a deciding factor to get it over the 421 now that I think of it. Im no expert but I feel like the 421 will be adequate enough to reduce room sounds, but hey, I might be wrong. As I mentioned before, I want a dynamic that is able to lower the room tone and interference, yet be detailed, open and sound 'closer' towards the condenser spectrum.

If room sound is any issue at all, then the M88 or the RE-20 would be preferable to the 421. And both reach a little higher in the frequency spectrum, although I don't think the region above 17KHz is particularly useful for vocals. But admittedly I am old school. Maybe people like hearing that in a vocal these days. If they can.......
For studio work, RE-20 is a big and impressive looking mic, and does help a lot with reducing proximity effect (maybe another thing however that is desireable today haha). M88 is pretty generic looking, but does deliver the goods sonically.
Not that it matters, but I prefer the older variants of all three mics. The new ones are not quite the same. But still nice mics.
Main thing is, in a poor room, the M88 will work best, then RE-20. (PM9 better than both on that too, but....) Good luck
Old 14th December 2018
  #33
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by edva View Post
If room sound is any issue at all, then the M88 or the RE-20 would be preferable to the 421. And both reach a little higher in the frequency spectrum, although I don't think the region above 17KHz is particularly useful for vocals. But admittedly I am old school. Maybe people like hearing that in a vocal these days. If they can.......
For studio work, RE-20 is a big and impressive looking mic, and does help a lot with reducing proximity effect (maybe another thing however that is desireable today haha). M88 is pretty generic looking, but does deliver the goods sonically.
Not that it matters, but I prefer the older variants of all three mics. The new ones are not quite the same. But still nice mics.
Main thing is, in a poor room, the M88 will work best, then RE-20. (PM9 better than both on that too, but....) Good luck
Room sound is a limiting factor but I have 2 rooms I can experiment with. Unfortunately, there’s a lot more mics to choose from!

I’ve been looking further in to the M88 and I’ve read on another post that although it does have nice high frequencies, it can sound muffled and bassy in the lower end. Probably due to the proximity effect, but I’m not too sure.

The PR-40 is another option I’m now considering. how would it hold up in terms of getting that crisp sound I want in comparison to the M88?
Old 14th December 2018
  #34
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edva's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmiller5 View Post
Room sound is a limiting factor but I have 2 rooms I can experiment with. Unfortunately, there’s a lot more mics to choose from!

I’ve been looking further in to the M88 and I’ve read on another post that although it does have nice high frequencies, it can sound muffled and bassy in the lower end. Probably due to the proximity effect, but I’m not too sure.

The PR-40 is another option I’m now considering. how would it hold up in terms of getting that crisp sound I want in comparison to the M88?
I don't own one, and have very limited experience with them. I have seen and heard them a couple of times. I would call them "super crispy". But again my experience with them is very limited. It does get excellent reviews for the most part. Looks like a very nice microphone. Certainly a more modern design than the other 3 under recent discussion. Seems to be known for quality of both the highs and lows, with what we used to call "presence" and "fullness".
Those two qualities can contribute to a mic having a "big" sound.
I'd say if you have any sibilance, or a "wispy" sound, in your voice then probably the wrong mic. If on the other hand you have a smooth, or a "dark" sound to your voice, probably a good match.

PS The more I look at the PR40, the more I believe it may be just what you want. There is after all sometimes inspiration to be had from working with good tools. If this mic looks like something you think you'd feel good about using, I'd say go for it! Good luck.

Last edited by edva; 14th December 2018 at 07:32 PM.. Reason: +PS
Old 14th December 2018
  #35
Gear Nut
 

I also have a m88tg which is great. You might want to check out the Heil PR31 BW. Supercardiod polar pattern. Nice on toms and guitar cabls
Old 24th December 2018
  #36
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patshep's Avatar
the m88 works great on my vocals, i also just love it on guitar cab...
my voice is lower, so not sure how it will translate, personally i'd like to also own a md441 and an re20
if you want 'crisp', have you tried an sm57? if i want crisp vocals from a dynamic, that's what i'd use
Old 24th December 2018
  #37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggot Brain View Post
SM7, M88, RE20, 441... all classics for a reason, ....... 441 and SM7 are on the darker side, but some additive EQ in the top end will get you where you want to go no problem.
I agree. And I find it a bit confusing that the SM7b, gets a "too dark" stamp from some. The SM7b which don't differ significantly in sound or construction, from the original SM7 that Michael Jackson used for studio vocal.
Who's got a higher more trebely tenor?

SM7 is a one trick pony, if any microphone is.
It has no weak or missing response. The "dark" is easily rolled of in mix.

I always do that with almost any microphone myself, and I always add a bit of high freq on my vocals.

I am an airy tenor.

If something is missing or to much in SM7, i suggest looking at the chosen preamp.
I use a Triton Audio Fethead pre between my mic and the preamp, when I need a hotter output.

I must say that SM7 shines on most stuff, given it is used right. Anyways, I would try it properly.

I don't miss anything from it compared to my Gemini tube mic or others. It just sounds great from the start.

Merry Christmas
Old 25th December 2018
  #38
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patshep's Avatar
one thing that's important to know with the m88 (probably the sm7b also) is that a pre with a nice amount of gain makes it sound better
in the case of the m88, you want to give it a good amount of space (10 inches to 18 or so) to get a great sound and also reduce proximity effect
Merry Christmas
Old 13th April 2019
  #39
Here for the gear
PR40s On eBay ...

I am resurrecting this thread discussion in April 2019 because I am seeing some reference to the Heil PR40 here. For whatever reason, they can be had at bargain prices right now -- many times on eBay, and usually for less money than people are trying to sell a PR30. For instance, as I type this, there is an "open box" PR40 on eBay right now, with all original supporting materials ... currently $2.75.
Old 14th April 2019
  #40
Gear Addict
Heil Audio dynamics tend to be brighter than SM57/SM7s but surprisingly suit male vocals. Try the PR22 (if on a tight budget) and PR35 - the PR35 sounds the same as the superb PR30 but has extra handling noise isolation - which is important for Rap vocalists who want to man-handle the mic.
Old 14th April 2019
  #41
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patshep's Avatar
I also love the m88 on jazzy electric guitar
it suits my voice well too
Old 14th April 2019
  #42
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The Heil PR22, on male vocals, favors the Tenor and High Baritone.
One of the top local clubs, mostly switched back to 58's, after starting with PR22's.
Chris
Old 14th April 2019
  #43
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
The Heil PR22, on male vocals, favors the Tenor and High Baritone.
One of the top local clubs, mostly switched back to 58's, after starting with PR22's.
Chris
Perhaps, but I was reacting to the OP: "I know the SM7B is a great mic, I’m uncertain it will be suitable for modern r&b. I’m sure you all know that modern r&b has pretty ‘hyped’ upper frequencies and if it sounds dark and muffled then I’m unsure EQ will help much. I’ve heard mixed opinions. Some saying it takes EQ well, some saying it doesn’t, it’s too dark etc. "

Most of the Heil dynamics - including the PR22 have a brighter top-end than an SM7B. People used to the rolled off tone of a SM58 will be shocked by the PR22 - true, but the OP was specifically asking for mics with hyped upper frequencies compared to a SM7B. Heils almost sound like condensers in that area - but without the fizziness. I still think he ought to try a PR22 and (particularly) a PR35.
Old 14th April 2019
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShelGef View Post
as I type this, there is an "open box" PR40 on eBay right now, with all original supporting materials ... currently $2.75.
I'm guessing that's a typo. Unless you meant they're just selling the box it came in.
Old 14th April 2019
  #45
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True, good points.

BTW Joe Walsh is a close friend of Heil's. Joe doesn't care for 58's that much, and aided in the PR20 development (PR22 has better handling/shock mounting).
I choose songs in "higher keys"/2nd Tenor, while singing through the Heil, at these 2 clubs.

When the 58's arrived, I could sing deep bari leads/BGV's much more effectively.
Chris
Old 15th April 2019
  #46
Here for the gear
The $2.75 PR40 [;~)]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill5 View Post
I'm guessing that's a typo. Unless you meant they're just selling the box it came in.
It really was $2.75 when I posted my original GS message ... it looks like some people are interested in it -- box & everything :~)
Old 15th April 2019
  #47
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weave's Avatar
eBay gets weird sometimes - saw some C-214's, a few days ago, going buy it now for $60 - they disappeared quickly.
Old 16th April 2019
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShelGef View Post
It really was $2.75 when I posted my original GS message ... it looks like some people are interested in it -- box & everything :~)
I forgot how ebay works, they put something at a ridiculously low bid price but it almost always goes up to something reasonable.
Old 16th April 2019
  #49
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When starting to get a mic or mic's from ground 0. The SM57 and/or 58 are a great place to start.

The M88 is a better mic than the 57 or 58. The old ones are better than the new ones in all casses.

Here are the important things to know about mics in a nut shell.

1. They have a pattern: Omni, Cart, Supper cart, wide cart, figure 8.
Each mic has one or more patterns.
2. There are 3 common types of mic's: Moving coil, Condenser, Ribbon. Each sound very different. Condenser's often come in a high end tube flavor.
Moving coils are the cheapest. The best moving coils are under $1000. A 441 may be a bit more by now. Afordable ribbon mic's are on the come back.
Large Condenser tube types are the most expensive
3. Every mic is an EQ/compressor/expander with different sounds/settings on each axis and at each distance.
4. Only condenser mic's without tubes need phantom power (few exceptions). Ribbon mic's don't like phantom power (Few exceptions).
Old 17th April 2019
  #50
Here for the gear
Maybe you can give the sE Electronics X-1 S a try. It's a great Studio Condenser Mic at a really affordable price which is great for vocals & can also be used for other applications such as live instrumentation.

I do a ton of R&B sessions and own one myself. They sell these online as a "bundle" package (which comes with a Reflexion Filter, a Pop Filter and an XLR mic cable) all priced around $250, or you can purchase the Mic separately if you like. I also own a sE Gemini III which is one of their more High End Large Diaphragm Mics that I use for my own Vocal sessions (my vocal range is Alto). These are priced around $1800-$2K but are well worth the spend. The other alternative that I recommend is an Audio-Technica AT-4040 Studio Condenser Mic which is awesome for vocals as well. It's probably one of the best that Audio-Tech has made in my opinion. Either one will give you great results when used properly and will help in making your Vocal performance experience a lot easier and enjoyable. I hope this helps!
Old 22nd April 2019
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elegentdrum View Post
1. They have a pattern: Omni, Cart, Supper cart, wide cart,
?

I'm curious, where are you that those terms are used? I've never heard the "cart" reference (which obviously mean cardioids).

Again just wondering Just when you think you've heard all the lingo lol
Old 22nd April 2019
  #52
Gear Head
 

...and only really nice studios have a "suppercart"....the others do take-out.
Old 22nd April 2019
  #53
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Did the OP ever buy a mic? I hate when people don’t close a “buy” thread like this.
Old 23rd April 2019
  #54
Gear Head
 

I just discovered Heil Sound Mics.
For dynamic mics they are pretty interesting.
Old 23rd April 2019
  #55
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
The Heil PR22, on male vocals, favors the Tenor and High Baritone.
One of the top local clubs, mostly switched back to 58's, after starting with PR22's.
Chris
The PR 35 is impressive.
Old 25th April 2019
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill5 View Post
?

I'm curious, where are you that those terms are used? I've never heard the "cart" reference (which obviously mean cardioids).

Again just wondering Just when you think you've heard all the lingo lol
Here is a much more proper set of terms: Hyper AKA Wide

Hiel mic's are fantastic for phase cohearance. They don't flatter much, but they are true. PR40 is an awsome mic. Try it on vocals, Cab, Snare, Toms.

There large one(kick) ?P48 I think, is unique sounding.
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