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$20 mic v's $12,000 mic. Condenser Microphones
Old 3 days ago
  #61
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
I don't even think they have to look OK. My early-adopter Pearlman TM1's with the black spray paint and the bowling-trophy engraving have done really, really right by me. But so has Dave, who has tinkered with them and made them better maybe 4 or 5 different times.
True. “Ugly” doesn’t tell you anything about the audio.
Old 3 days ago
  #62
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CupcakeKitten View Post
Hello new friends <3

TBH buying a mic *that* cheap is like buying a super cheap handbag.
Nah. Unlike cheap/fake leather, tech just keeps getting better, the lowest of the low end included, in fact especially the lower end. I'm not saying I'd record an album or want to go on tour with one...not today that is. But I've no doubt the day will come when you can and get really good results.
Old 2 days ago
  #63
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by bill5 View Post
I'm sorry but none of this is true, at least not in the absolute way you state it. ie:

1. Nobody here is insisting gear doesn't matter. It's a question of degree.
2. Many (most?) musicians don't simply choose instruments (and certainly not gear) because they are "inspiring." Cost and other factors almost always play a part. And really if a musician needs some top-end gear to be "inspired," I can't say I think much of that musician.
3. Cost is almost never irrelevant.
4. Any kid who is going to ditch music to go play with his friends because he didn't get a pricey instrument to play was going to ditch it anyway.
I wonder if you ever tried to teach a kid how to play the guitar.....? Cost is always relevant,but how many times have you seen guys with great tattoos and gaming systems cheaping out on musical gear. You changed the pickups on your guitar, you didn't find that inspiring? Simply put, if you can hear more, you have more to work with, and leads you in other directions. Can't develop a bass line if you can't hear it.....Kids with a crap guitar with lousy action that hurts their fingers and sounds like a cigar box with strings, aren't likely to bond with it, and it's hard instrument for a kid to learn.......

There are a gazillion threads where people argue endlessly that you can make great music with a $20- mic and earbuds. I'd argue that you can make better great music giving yourself better gear and forgoing the latest electronic toy or fashion accessory, and respecting your art by investing in it......
Old 2 days ago
  #64
Lives for gear
 
robert82's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
. . . . respecting your art by investing in it......
Old 2 days ago
  #65
Lives for gear
 
kennybro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
...respecting your art by investing in it......
Yeah. Consider your needs and your budget, and invest wisely. The nice thing today is that you can buy cheaper and produce amazingly professional recordings if you know what you're doing. The field has leveled considerably in terms of what the cheaper stuff sounds like.
Old 2 days ago
  #66
Gear Head
 

Microphone Reveal:

Mic1: 1969 Neumann U87
Mic2: Shure KSM8
Mic3: Behringer XM8500
Mic4: Shure sm58
Old 2 days ago
  #67
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velour Jumpsoot View Post
Microphone Reveal:

Mic1: 1969 Neumann U87
Mic2: Shure KSM8
Mic3: Behringer XM8500
Mic4: Shure sm58
I really think you should sell me that U87 since it sucked.......

Cool tune and cool exercise..... I'll give you $50- for it, hell $70 since it's Xmas....
Old 2 days ago
  #68
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
I really think you should sell me that U87 since it sucked.......

Cool tune and cool exercise..... I'll give you $50- for it, hell $70 since it's Xmas....


Like some us, this U87 has a magical patina that comes with age.
Old 2 days ago
  #69
Gear Maniac
 

SUPERMEGALOL!!!
I remember in another thread people bashing me when I said that 57/58 are eccellent mics that do the job at home and also in a studio (if you know how to record...) and that some pro used them in their albums without problems(And it's a proven fact...)

...and now a lot of people in a blind test said they prefer just #4 ... that is a ...LOL! Just a 58.

Life is strange.
Old 2 days ago
  #70
Lives for gear
 
robert82's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velour Jumpsoot View Post


Like some us, this U87 has a magical patina that comes with age.
10,000 hours of stale cigarette smoke.
Old 2 days ago
  #71
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
10,000 hours of stale cigarette smoke.
It was fresh at the time.
Old 2 days ago
  #72
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimi777 View Post
...and now a lot of people in a blind test said they prefer just #4 ... that is a ...LOL! Just a 58.
I've done a lot of really good vocal recordings with 58's. But I think it matters that he worked it just right. An inch closer or further back and I might not have picked it. You generally get more leeway with an 87.
Old 2 days ago
  #73
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
10,000 hours of stale cigarette smoke.
Tom Onofrio gave the capsule a little cleaning (the foam ring around the capsule base was disintegrating), but no grime, or sticky residues. All-in-all a great example of a classic mic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimi777 View Post
SUPERMEGALOL!!!
I remember in another thread people bashing me when I said that 57/58 are eccellent mics that do the job at home and also in a studio (if you know how to record...) and that some pro used them in their albums without problems(And it's a proven fact...)

...and now a lot of people in a blind test said they prefer just #4 ... that is a ...LOL! Just a 58.

Life is strange.
The 58 in question has been my main live mic for the past 20 years. You can hear some high end hash in the clip I posted, perhaps a better preamp would give it a bit more shine.

I don't know...somedays I'm just not sure what sounds good anymore.
Old 2 days ago
  #74
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velour Jumpsoot View Post
I don't know...somedays I'm just not sure what sounds good anymore.
The fact is that a unique reference "good sound" in my opinion, doesn't really exist.
But exist 1000 types of shades, just of the same thing.
1000 flavours of the same pizza.

so if you pick a random mic in your collection rolling a dice, and you use it properly, you can do a song that is good if that song is good and your voice is reproduced in the recording so that people can understand your lyrics.

Old 2 days ago
  #75
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
10,000 hours of stale cigarette smoke.
Puts hair in your chest. Or on the microphone
Old 2 days ago
  #76
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimi777 View Post
The fact is that a unique reference "good sound" in my opinion, doesn't really exist.
But exist 1000 types of shades, just of the same thing.
1000 flavours of the same pizza.

so if you pick a random mic in your collection rolling a dice, and you use it properly, you can do a song that is good if that song is good and your voice is reproduced in the recording so that people can understand your lyrics.

Absolutely. For example, my most regrettable mic purchase (so far) was a pair of Rode NT1As. I feel that I ruined many songs by using that mic on the lead vocal. It has some phasey, zingy “thing” emphasized in the sibilance range that I have grown to hate. I don’t have one recording I did with that mic that I enjoy listening to now. I recommend against it when GS newbies consider buying it.
BUT... I have read about that mic being used on recordings that have done well, some of which I have heard and like.
So the best advice is to try mics, listen to them in a mix, and trust your ears (especially before you buy them).
Old 2 days ago
  #77
Lives for gear
 
mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velour Jumpsoot View Post
Microphone Reveal:

Mic1: 1969 Neumann U87
Mic2: Shure KSM8
Mic3: Behringer XM8500
Mic4: Shure sm58
No surprised - well maybe regarding the sm58 - the 87 was easy

::
Mads
Old 2 days ago
  #78
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mljung View Post
No surprised - well maybe regarding the sm58 - the 87 was easy

::
Mads
The purpose of the reveal is to make the guessing easier...so, nice job!
Old 2 days ago
  #79
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
I wonder if you ever tried to teach a kid how to play the guitar.....? Cost is always relevant,but how many times have you seen guys with great tattoos and gaming systems cheaping out on musical gear. You changed the pickups on your guitar, you didn't find that inspiring? Simply put, if you can hear more, you have more to work with, and leads you in other directions. Can't develop a bass line if you can't hear it.....Kids with a crap guitar with lousy action that hurts their fingers and sounds like a cigar box with strings, aren't likely to bond with it, and it's hard instrument for a kid to learn.......
I agree on the playability part. But I *vehemently* disagree on the sound. Beginners (especially when they're kids) almost always have **** discerning abilities, will be attracted to the most in-your-face/striking sounds, will be extremely content with anything producing any kind of distortion out of their guitar tone, or loud cymbals, or sheer volume. Taste is acquired, it's almost never natural. It's a process.

There is a reason why metal and hard rock is/used to be popular with teenagers (today it is mostly EDM). Of course there are exceptions.
Old 2 days ago
  #80
Lives for gear
 
mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velour Jumpsoot View Post
The purpose of the reveal is to make the guessing easier...so, nice job!
I guessed it two days ago, so...

::
Mads
Old 2 days ago
  #81
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mljung View Post
I guessed it two days ago, so...

::
Mads
Oh sorry...my bad! Great ears, Mads!
Old 2 days ago
  #82
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velour Jumpsoot View Post
Microphone Reveal:

Mic1: 1969 Neumann U87
Mic2: Shure KSM8
Mic3: Behringer XM8500
Mic4: Shure sm58
I asked earlier, still curious here, what were the distances from the mics?
Thanks
Old 2 days ago
  #83
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne View Post
I asked earlier, still curious here, what were the distances from the mics?
Thanks
Sorry, missed that question. I'm pretty sure I was 5-6 inches from each mic.

I think someone mentioned a general lack of 'low end' in all of the clips. I guess I can kind of hear that. I'm thinking about another round of shootouts, maybe adding an iPhone mic to the samples just for 'fun.'
Old 2 days ago
  #84
Lives for gear
 

My favorite on those 4 clips was...
Microphone #3 !!
Chris
Old 2 days ago
  #85
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by ampetrosillo View Post
I agree on the playability part. But I *vehemently* disagree on the sound. Beginners (especially when they're kids) almost always have **** discerning abilities, will be attracted to the most in-your-face/striking sounds, will be extremely content with anything producing any kind of distortion out of their guitar tone, or loud cymbals, or sheer volume. Taste is acquired, it's almost never natural. It's a process.

There is a reason why metal and hard rock is/used to be popular with teenagers (today it is mostly EDM). Of course there are exceptions.
Why on earth would you assume I'm talking about electric guitars (which do sonically sound like cigar boxes with strings!)? You teach kids how to play fuzz boxed electrics? Wow!

Of course kids have taste, and they understand more about tone than you might think. Sorry to break it to you but kids like Reggae, Blues, Vintage Rock, etc....not just EDM and thrash rock....they are exposed to all genres of music, if all they liked was high volume, they'd all be deaf with ear pods......you gotta get out more!

The good thing is you can buy really great gear these days inexpensively. Even acoustics can sound decent for a couple of hundred......Synths are off the charts with features, and now any kid can play producer in Garage Band...
Even a (not so kid), can create the above track with $20- mics....
Old 2 days ago
  #86
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velour Jumpsoot View Post
Sorry, missed that question. I'm pretty sure I was 5-6 inches from each mic.

I think someone mentioned a general lack of 'low end' in all of the clips. I guess I can kind of hear that. I'm thinking about another round of shootouts, maybe adding an iPhone mic to the samples just for 'fun.'
Thanks Velour. For one thing this game is always a welcome work in progress. I have the KSM8 which has very little proximity effect, and know the 58 of course.
Plus having had very little experience with a U87, I find it interesting that the 58 came out 'the warmest of the bunch -that far off the mic, and it's largest by far high mid rise of these two.
Old 2 days ago
  #87
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
I wonder if you ever tried to teach a kid how to play the guitar.....? Cost is always relevant,but how many times have you seen guys with great tattoos and gaming systems cheaping out on musical gear. You changed the pickups on your guitar, you didn't find that inspiring? Simply put, if you can hear more, you have more to work with, and leads you in other directions. Can't develop a bass line if you can't hear it.....Kids with a crap guitar with lousy action that hurts their fingers and sounds like a cigar box with strings, aren't likely to bond with it, and it's hard instrument for a kid to learn.......

There are a gazillion threads where people argue endlessly that you can make great music with a $20- mic and earbuds. I'd argue that you can make better great music giving yourself better gear and forgoing the latest electronic toy or fashion accessory, and respecting your art by investing in it......
Again: It's a question of degree. I'm not suggesting anyone get a kid a total "crap" guitar. But you needn't spend a lot on pricey, trendy one either, which seemed to be what you were implying. If not, pardon the misunderstanding.

My overall point is you don't need to spend a lot on top-end gear to get something of very good quality...and in your example, my point is if a kid really wants to learn guitar, they aren't going to let not having a great guitar stop them. A decent one will do.
Old 2 days ago
  #88
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
Why on earth would you assume I'm talking about electric guitars (which do sonically sound like cigar boxes with strings!)? You teach kids how to play fuzz boxed electrics? Wow!

Of course kids have taste, and they understand more about tone than you might think. Sorry to break it to you but kids like Reggae, Blues, Vintage Rock, etc....not just EDM and thrash rock....they are exposed to all genres of music, if all they liked was high volume, they'd all be deaf with ear pods......you gotta get out more!

The good thing is you can buy really great gear these days inexpensively. Even acoustics can sound decent for a couple of hundred......Synths are off the charts with features, and now any kid can play producer in Garage Band...
Even a (not so kid), can create the above track with $20- mics....
Of course I read this after my above post. I think we're more in agreement than it sounded initially.
Old 2 days ago
  #89
Lives for gear
 

The $20 mics are cheap electrets in a biggish body. The good thing about that is there's plenty of room for tinkering. I bought a BM700 for 7 pounds and did the mods described here Modding a BM-800 Mic. It's still got a zinginess to the top end but overall it's a useful mic for next to nothing. I agree with the "buy something better first" sentiment though.
Old 2 days ago
  #90
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by bill5 View Post
Of course I read this after my above post. I think we're more in agreement than it sounded initially.
This is disappointingly agreeable. I was about to propose a duel.

Do students have any kind of ear?
To some degree, we are who we are at a very young age. I was introduced to the trombone in fourth grade. I neglected studying written music and dropped out of band after my freshman year because I had become a fake musician. I had forgotten how to read music and was playing everything by ear.
I had flattered myself that I could make the trombone sound better than the first chair players.
Last year I saw one of the first chair guys at a reunion and he spontaneously said the same thing. He’d been in college bands, jazz groups and community bands. He said I had the best, sweetest tone of anyone he’d ever played with, and that he was always jealous of that. He reminded me that he had borrowed my horn and played it a bit. He was not happy to learn that the sound wasn’t in the horn.
He is a life long trombone player. I became a sound engineer. I guess I’ve been trying to make things sound good since at least fourth grade.
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