The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 All  This Thread  Reviews  Gear Database  Gear for sale     Latest  Trending
Choosing Beetween 3 Mics (Condenser, Dynamic, Dynamic) ??
Old 1st December 2018
  #1
Gear Head
 
Magic Music Box's Avatar
 

Choosing Beetween 3 Mics (Condenser, Dynamic, Dynamic) ??

Hello Guys,

My friend have three mics we can use to record my vocals in his bedroom (3x3m space with 2,70m height):

- Condenser: Rhode NT2A
- Dynamic: Shure SM58
- Dynamic: Shure SM57

He is not a pro about audio, nor do I. He says that every vocal has to be recorded with the condenser mic, because It is more sensitive. I'm not shure about that. How can I decide and choose a mic? The dynamic mics could end up being better for my voice or in relation to the space we have?

Thanks,
Old 1st December 2018
  #2
Lives for gear
 

There is at least a few variables/it depends'.
Sometimes a 58 may be a better fit -tone wise for a given voice or situation. And, in a small room the reflections come into play, but that does apply to either mic. The 58 may have the advantage here -do to it's tone balance' being tailored for a closer working distance.
One difference can be the tones of both, and those tones' you might get working them close'ish to minimize the small room downsides that will contribute to the total. That's to say, the destructive effects of room early reflections and resonances can swamp other 'qualities'.
Try the 58 at about an inch or 3 back, verses the condenser probably 3-6 inches. And def consider getting some soft stuff around you and the mics.

Last edited by Wayne; 1st December 2018 at 10:36 PM..
Old 2nd December 2018
  #3
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic Music Box View Post
He is not a pro about audio, nor do I. He says that every vocal has to be recorded with the condenser mic, because It is more sensitive.
Well that proves the "he's not a pro" part One of the silliest and yet most pervasive myths about mics.

Quote:
How can I decide and choose a mic?
By trying each and seeing how they sound.
Old 2nd December 2018
  #4
Lives for gear
Studio vocals are often recorded with a Large Condensor mic and a windscreen pop filter, and often times with a Dynamic mic too.

Whatever mic is sounding best, and if the vocalist actually performs better with a handheld dynamic mic, that's the only thing that matters.

This link below is a good comparison of 2 dynamics vs 2 Condenser mics for example.

Old 2nd December 2018
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Beyer M88TG, if you can inve$t in it.

Another excellent dynamic microphone for vocals, but on the cheap, is the AKG D790.

Either are way less fussy regarding budget mic pre's vs. 57/58.

Here's an example of a the same vocal on a D790.
Second example (of same performance) is with heavy effects...

Chris
Attached Files
Old 2nd December 2018
  #6
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic Music Box View Post
Hello Guys,

My friend have three mics we can use to record my vocals in his bedroom (3x3m space with 2,70m height):

- Condenser: Rhode NT2A
- Dynamic: Shure SM58
- Dynamic: Shure SM57

He is not a pro about audio, nor do I. He says that every vocal has to be recorded with the condenser mic, because It is more sensitive. I'm not shure about that. How can I decide and choose a mic? The dynamic mics could end up being better for my voice or in relation to the space we have?

Thanks,
There's no way to know until you hear all three in the space you're recording.

This is Gearslutz, so there will be lots of suggestions on how to spend money, but often it's TIME that's needed: time to figure out the right placement/distance from the mic, time to compare different mics at different distances, and, most importantly, time to record the best take (performance).

Any one of those mics will likely work for your project. With the room specs, it's likely that best results will be on top of the mic (super close).

My gut says that in the room you describe the 57 will be best, unless the singer is more familiar with (and used to) the 58. They're basically the same mic with different windscreens. I've never used the Rode, but I'm familiar with the type (affordable LD condenser) and it will likely pick up more room noise than is desirable and require more post-processing to get a usable vocal.

Consider this: in a poor room/environment, the pattern (cardioid/omni/supercardioid/figure-8) may be more important than the type of diaphragm (dynamic/condenser). The Rode is multi-pattern, but none are supercardioid, and the Shure are cardioid.

Try all the patterns on the Rode. With omni you'll get more room noise but a "truer" approximation of your natural voice, as the proximity effect will be lessened (the closer you are to a cardioid the more accentuated the lower frequencies become - not so in omni).

If possible I'd consider an option that's about as expensive as an SM57/58, a supercardioid like the Electro-Voice PL80. Used they're usually under $60 (the Shure versions are more expensive, like the Beta 58). Not well known like the Shure SM57/58, but a much tighter pattern that will only pick up what's sung directly into it. They're also great live mics because they don't pick up noise from amps/monitors unless they're right in front of them (little to no feedback), but better mic technique is required (you need to sing right into the diaphragm).

Hope this helps.
Old 2nd December 2018
  #7
Lives for gear
 

M88TG or D790, reject poor room tone better than... 57/58/SM7.
Example was recorded in a small kitchen, untreated, and a glass slider 6 feet behind!
Chris
Old 2nd December 2018
  #8
Lives for gear
Best advice (which you’ve already had here) is for you and your buddy to record some section or sections of lead vocal in a song and play them back. To be scientific and remove preconceptions and bias, you should level-match the vocals and have someone else switching the vocals in a way that makes it somewhat of blind comparison. You need to hear the samples as an outside listener would. That listener does not know or care about microphone types, chain, price tags, or anything besides DOES IT SOUND GOOD IN THE SONG.
I once tried a kick drum mic on a female vocalist that sounded shrill on everything else. When it sounded better, I used it. Don’t think too much... listen!
Old 2nd December 2018
  #9
Lives for gear
 
nightchef's Avatar
 

One thing to keep in mind if you choose the SM57 (which, especially in that room, you very well might): 57s are very susceptible to P-pops and other vocal noises, as compared to 58s which are designed for vocals and have a somewhat more robust windscreen. If you use a 57 for vocals, you should have some kind of pop filter handy, even if it's only something minimal like this:

A2WS Locking Microphone Windscreen | Shure Americas
Old 2nd December 2018
  #10
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
Best advice (which you’ve already had here) is for you and your buddy to record some section or sections of lead vocal in a song and play them back. To be scientific and remove preconceptions and bias, you should level-match the vocals and have someone else switching the vocals in a way that makes it somewhat of blind comparison. You need to hear the samples as an outside listener would. That listener does not know or care about microphone types, chain, price tags, or anything besides DOES IT SOUND GOOD IN THE SONG.
I once tried a kick drum mic on a female vocalist that sounded shrill on everything else. When it sounded better, I used it. Don’t think too much... listen!
Bingo, exactly, esp those last 5 words and the blind comparison thing. IMO this or words similar should be on the wall of every studio, whether pro or home.
Old 2nd December 2018
  #11
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nightchef View Post
One thing to keep in mind if you choose the SM57 (which, especially in that room, you very well might): 57s are very susceptible to P-pops and other vocal noises, as compared to 58s which are designed for vocals and have a somewhat more robust windscreen. If you use a 57 for vocals, you should have some kind of pop filter handy, even if it's only something minimal like this:

A2WS Locking Microphone Windscreen | Shure Americas
Also nailed this one; I'm amazed how often someone will suggest a 57 over a 58 for vocals.
Old 2nd December 2018
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nightchef View Post
One thing to keep in mind if you choose the SM57 (which, especially in that room, you very well might): 57s are very susceptible to P-pops and other vocal noises, as compared to 58s which are designed for vocals and have a somewhat more robust windscreen. If you use a 57 for vocals, you should have some kind of pop filter handy, even if it's only something minimal like this:

A2WS Locking Microphone Windscreen | Shure Americas
Curious the recommendations of 57 vs 58s in the thread. They allow getting even closer to the diaphragm -which is a downside in a vocal app IMHO.
Very often I'll add additional screens for most vocal recordings/singers even to ball mics... the RE-20 as well. If not for even less 'puff and pop noise, but also to establish a min optimum working distance.
Old 2nd December 2018
  #13
What they said about listening! Any of these mics can be used to record vocals. Each will give you a different result. Make some quick test recordings (in the same space) to decide which works best for you and the song. Be aware that there will be an optimum singing distance for each mic, and those distances are not the same. The optimal distance for the NT2-A will depend on which pattern you're using it in.

In many home recording situations, the figure-eight pattern will get the least amount of room reflections. In a rectangular room, aim it down the longest dimension. In a nearly square room, use the diagonal. Ideally, your back and the back of the mic will both be at least 10 feet from the nearest wall. If there's not that much space, stand with your back to something absorbent, like heavy drapes or a packing blanket.

When using cardioid pattern, rear reflections aren't a problem, it's those at 90 degrees that you need to worry about. Therefore, sing across the short dimension of a rectangular room rather than the long dimension. Unfortunately, you'll still have floor and ceiling reflections, which you don't in the figure-eight case. But the mic's frequency response varies depending on the pattern, and one pattern may sound better on your voice than another.

All of the above suggestions are simply starting points. Listen and adjust based on what you actually hear!

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording
Old 8th June 2019
  #14
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rick View Post

In many home recording situations, the figure-eight pattern will get the least amount of room reflections.

In a nearly square room, use the diagonal.

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording
These are two excellent bits of wisdom that are seldom passed on.
There is a general opinion that figure-eight always picks up more room sound than cardioid, but in most rooms the opposite is true
Most posters tell you what wall to face. Sometimes facing into a corner eliminates coherent slap coming back to the mic. Don’t get too close to the corner though.

Came back to this thread so late because it was referenced recently in another thread.
Old 8th June 2019
  #15
Lives for gear
 

AEA N22 + Aston Halo is also a nice start...
Chris
Old 4 weeks ago
  #16
Gear Nut
 
chipss36's Avatar
 

Without a treated room any lcm would only make a mess, go with the 57, tons of records were done with em, picks up less room noise, reflection, nulls, comb filtering, and all that rot.
would be the mic to get good tones and usable tacks. Even In a bad room. And the cost is as good as it gets.
Have a great room? Then a lcm makes sense.
A cheep china lcm is about the worst mic to start out with. And will have a high frequency bump that is just harsh, mix a few together and you know what I am saying.
Mix 30 tracks of sm57 and no problems.
The sm7b is on many well known records as well.
And uses basically the same sm57/58 guts.
Just saying.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump