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If I could have only one mic (under 2k), what would you recommend?
Old 22nd March 2019
  #211
Here for the gear
 

I would gladly the Slate ML1. You can use it with a different Mic pre. Get the mic for about $800 and you can really spend the rest on a quality mic pre or interface.

Slate Digital - World-Class Analog-Modeled Plugins, Microphones, Interfaces & Education
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Old 22nd March 2019
  #212
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I'd still get a used/excellent condition Sennheiser 441 before that. AEA N22 ribbon is also top notch, for just a little more new. Chris
Old 22nd March 2019
  #213
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by s wave View Post
is that the M Joly / Earthworks (mics) ---- ?
What I got from the article is, early on Chinese manufacturers were mismatching capsules and circuits. Joly got famous for modding mostly Oktava mics and then expanded to making his own. He was very ethical from the standpoint, he only started modding after another engineer had stopped doing it (with the guys blessing!)....

On here Jim Williams is another person I'd reach out to if I wanted to mod equipment FWIW. Modding is a great way to start with gear and then make it fit better into your needs. Fun to research too.....
Old 22nd March 2019
  #214
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s wave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
What I got from the article is, early on Chinese manufacturers were mismatching capsules and circuits. Joly got famous for modding mostly Oktava mics and then expanded to making his own. He was very ethical from the standpoint, he only started modding after another engineer had stopped doing it (with the guys blessing!)....

On here Jim Williams is another person I'd reach out to if I wanted to mod equipment FWIW. Modding is a great way to start with gear and then make it fit better into your needs. Fun to research too.....
Mismatching capsules... there is a lot of information to dig there - as well as a lot of bargains - when talking real old school German/Chinese technology.
Old 23rd March 2019
  #215
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DirkP's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by s wave View Post
Yes most mics are out of my price range. You know there was a theory of how Geffel technology made it from the euro east bloc to China. In this theory some capsule, diaphragm, solid state circuit technology made it to the east. BUT the different technologies were not the 'correct' parts for one specific mic. Although they worked the components as a whole were not 'balanced'. This is interesting of why (possibly early Chinese mics had horrible problems (usually in the high shelf). Then at some point (years later this was noticed and started being corrected) I have heard some old Chinese mic components re-fitted with the correct components and to me they are as good as any. I will try to find some history. Anyway Shanghai electronics is like at the end/top of that German to Shanghai food chain. I like transparent / flat / accurate mics. And Se is pretty cool and cheap.

"Microtech Gefell still produces the M7 capsule in exactly the same way Georg Neumann taught the elder Kühnast in the 1940s"

Se: Mic Manufacturing In The Far East |

Somewhere within this time...

"The original company, Georg Neumann & Co. (in Gefell), continued to develop microphone technology, with a focus on broadcast and measurement applications. The company name changed in 1972 to VEB Mikrofontechnik Gefell, following the GDR’s prohibition of use of the family name.

In 1989, Georg Neumann GmbH (Berlin) was foundering, but established contact with MTG and began distributing the Gefell line of microphones. But by 1991, Neumann Berlin faced bankruptcy and was soon sold to Sennheiser. MTG set up its own worldwide distribution network."

Read more: Microtech Gefell Microphones | RecordingHacks.com

"the “Gefell branch” of the Neumann family introduced Neumann capsule and mic designs to the Chinese as part of a technology exchange program"

Yahoooo! I found it read this! This is GOLD if you are into microphone technology:
--->>> Why Many Condenser Mics Are Too Bright and Sibilant | SoundBetter
for me this a must read multiple times

Mistakes are made in history but we can still get the spoils...of others mistakes.
Thank you so much for this: this is a great lesson in history! I kind of like it how the great conflicts in history are shown in a microcosmos as mic-technology.Never thought about the relations of VEB (Volks-Eigener-Betrieb) Neumann/Gefell of communist Eastgermany and China. All enterprises in socialist Germany were "VEB" - VEB means owned by the people as opposed to private "capitalists"
Since about a year I live in Kreuzberg, Berlin, where the original Neumann factory was located, but although Berlin is kind of obsessed with history: it is not possible for me to find out, where exactly the factory was.

But if this is the cause that so many budget LDC mics sound too bright and sibilant, why do many users say the same things about the australian made budget Rode mics, esp. the NT1a and even the post-coldwar more affordable Neumann mics like the TLM 103???
Old 23rd March 2019
  #216
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s wave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkP View Post
Thank you so much for this: this is a great lesson in history! I kind of like it how the great conflicts in history are shown in a microcosmos as mic-technology.Never thought about the relations of VEB (Volks-Eigener-Betrieb) Neumann/Gefell of communist Eastgermany and China. All enterprises in socialist Germany were "VEB" - VEB means owned by the people as opposed to private "capitalists"
Since about a year I live in Kreuzberg, Berlin, where the original Neumann factory was located, but although Berlin is kind of obsessed with history: it is not possible for me to find out, where exactly the factory was.

But if this is the cause that so many budget LDC mics sound too bright and sibilant, why do many users say the same things about the australian made budget Rode mics, esp. the NT1a and even the post-coldwar more affordable Neumann mics like the TLM 103???
VEBS/Geffel/Shanghai history is very very interesting... Somehow the match up of capsules were confused - leading to the mismatch and original LDC siblancy (which carried on for quite a while. (Fascinating) Some of those old mics just have to be modded. I have heard some results and they are astounding. Many mics get a bad knock but if you know how to use real low end mics to get a great recordings... lightbulbs start going off! ... and realize that if a mic has a frequency sweet spot its so usable.

Gmbh history Neumann - Reel to Reel Tape Recorder Manufacturers - Museum of Magnetic Sound Recording

The first Neumann factory, right in the centre of Berlin, was bombed late in 1943. Clearly a safer home was required, and a former textile mill was chosen in Gefell, to the South-East, near the Bavarian border. The whole company was moved in 1944, and there is still a local neighbourhood known as ‘Little Berlin’. A small facility was maintained in Berlin.

Neumann president, Wolfgang Fraissinet, tells of the brand’s 90-year history and its continuing presence today - PSNEurope

aktuelle Unternehmensinformationen

All I can read is it was right in the 'center of Berlin... its in one of these maps LOL :
1940 center of berlin map at DuckDuckGo
Old 23rd March 2019
  #217
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s wave's Avatar
WHO CAN FIND THE ORIGINAL STREET ADDRESS of Neumann Berlin Factory?

Pre WWll - there might be 2 of em....
Old 23rd March 2019
  #218
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s wave's Avatar
PLease excuse the spam...

Emil Berliner Studios probably holds the answer? This site mentions Neuman and 2 addresses - it makes sense that the Neumann Factory was set up in tandem or next to Emil Berliner Studios and Deutsche Grammophon - Stralauer Allee 1, 10245 Berlin.

Deutsche Grammophon, founded by Emil Berliner in 1898, opened its Berlin headquarters (Markgrafenstraße 76) in 1900. It was primarily a recording studio with three recording rooms.

Emile Berliner - Wikipedia

Deutsche Grammophon - Wikipedia

Emil Berliner Studios - Wikipedia
Old 23rd March 2019
  #219
Gear Guru
The history behind the gear is very cool. Joly loved the history of Tula, so Oktava was something he studied. The and Lomo were the Neumann’s of USSR. The whole history of Gefell AKG and Blue is fascinating.
Old 24th March 2019
  #220
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DirkP's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by s wave View Post
PLease excuse the spam...

Emil Berliner Studios probably holds the answer? This site mentions Neuman and 2 addresses - it makes sense that the Neumann Factory was set up in tandem or next to Emil Berliner Studios and Deutsche Grammophon - Stralauer Allee 1, 10245 Berlin.

Deutsche Grammophon, founded by Emil Berliner in 1898, opened its Berlin headquarters (Markgrafenstraße 76) in 1900. It was primarily a recording studio with three recording rooms.

Emile Berliner - Wikipedia

Deutsche Grammophon - Wikipedia

Emil Berliner Studios - Wikipedia
Thank you for your reply. Kreuzberg is very close to the center. All I found out is that the original factory was in Kreuzberg, but not exactly where. But now I know, it is 3,8 km from where I live close to the prominent disco "Tresor"...

Firma Neumann - Das beruhmteste Mikrofon der Welt (Archiv)

The ****s considered Neuman mics as "kriegswichtig" (important for war)...
In 1943 the original factory was destroyed through american bombs.

Then they found a new facility between Berlin and Munich in Gefell. And later Gefell became a part of the German Democratic Republic.
The article mentions Klaus Heyne a lot...

It's a 45 minute walk but I don't know the house number...


But the U47 was created in West-Berlin Tempelhof after WW2 in 1947 (now I get the name!). This is very close to Kreuzberg too, but I can't find the adress of the facility. Only that it was in Tempelhof....

I like this quote from the CEO of Neumann (it's in the article)
and it is a nice answer to this topic: If I could have only one mic under 2k....

Quote:
Wolfgang Fraissinet: „Kein Tonstudio hat nur Neumann-Mikrofone oder nur Gefeller Mikrofone oder nur Sennheiser Mikrofone – das ist immer ein Mix aus verschiedenen Geräten für verschiedene Einsatzzwecke und verschiedene Klangeigenschaften – und das soll auch so bleiben.“

Quote:
Wolfgang Fraissinet: "No recording studio has only Neumann microphones or only Gefeller microphones or only Sennheiser microphones - there is always a mix of different devices for different purposes and different sound properties - and it should stay that way."

Last edited by DirkP; 24th March 2019 at 02:48 AM..
Old 25th March 2019
  #221
Here for the gear
 

WA47 and SM57

I would say for 2000 usd you can buy 2 mics.

If only one go for the Warm Audio WA47. Great on vocals, drums and even guitar.

A second within your budget would be an SM57.
Great on guitar and individual drums. I don’t like it on a total drumkit.
Old 26th March 2019
  #222
TJ5
Gear Nut
My recommendation would be for Townsend Labs Sphere L22. Second for Slate VMS plus Shure SM7B. Third for Neumann TLM103 plus Shure SM58
Old 29th March 2019
  #223
Personally I'd avoid the Slate VMS unless you plan to have it modded. Apparently that really evens out the sound and cleans up some artifacts and makes it sound a lot better.

The Sphere L22 I'd look at though. It is a much more expensive mic, but I think being able to change things including polar pattern in post is worth it, though I think I'd still build as many clones of different mics you need for $2k rather than spend $1500 on one mic, since you might only need to build clones of a couple specific mics to have your bases covered (like a C12/ELA M 251, a U47, a U67, and maybe the closest thing you can get to a C800G clone)

Last edited by Dohreetoh; 29th March 2019 at 05:51 PM..
Old 2nd April 2019
  #224
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barforama's Avatar
If banjo is an application, then I’d suggest a defekt SM57.
Old 2nd April 2019
  #225
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EvilRoy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by barforama View Post
If banjo is an application, then I’d suggest a defekt SM57.
Defekt '57s are great mics. I use 'em on bagpipes all the time.
Old 13th April 2019
  #226
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barbital's Avatar
 

This one is easy:

Heil PR40
Shure SM7B
Neumann TLM102 or TLM103.

And you'd get plenty of change from $2k.

All the above 3 mics are great quality.

Sure if you really want the absolute best, you'll have to save up for the Neumann U87/U67/U47. But these are the very top end.

For hip hop vocals either the TLM102 or TLM103 should suffice.

But everyone has their own opinions here and they're entitled to their opinions. The above 3 mics should be good enough for the hip hop vocals. Enough said.
Old 14th April 2019
  #227
Used the KSM Shure's are what Id call workhorse, built like tanks... KSM44, 32, 27. Used Ive gotten the 44 for $275, KSM27 $100...the 32 is the "flatter one" but its no doubt built as well. The KSM27 has such a build its been used live and studio, the thick metal grills... workhorse is a good name for it.
Old 16th April 2019
  #228
Lives for gear
Telefunken cu29 has given me phenomenal vocals and guitar.

So far I've recorded:
1) Myself - higher pitch, aggressive voice... my voice is naturally thin. cu29 gives me the presence I naturally lack
2) classical female vocalist, alto/soprano range.
3) soulful female vocalist, alto/tenor range
4) soulful male vocalist, mostly tenor
5) and acoustic guitar.

All come out crystal clear... with mojo on the most important parts of all the above. It really highlights what you record.

I've found it's better to use it with my Tonebeast 12 with clean settings dialed in. WA73 gives it too much mid-range on the way in... too much color. (Never thought I would ever say something has too much color lol).

So, if you grab cu29... pair it with a nice clean preamp and you will be happy for life.
Old 13th May 2019
  #229
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPhoenix View Post
Telefunken cu29 has given me phenomenal vocals and guitar.

So far I've recorded:
1) Myself - higher pitch, aggressive voice... my voice is naturally thin. cu29 gives me the presence I naturally lack
2) classical female vocalist, alto/soprano range.
3) soulful female vocalist, alto/tenor range
4) soulful male vocalist, mostly tenor
5) and acoustic guitar.

All come out crystal clear... with mojo on the most important parts of all the above. It really highlights what you record.

I've found it's better to use it with my Tonebeast 12 with clean settings dialed in. WA73 gives it too much mid-range on the way in... too much color. (Never thought I would ever say something has too much color lol).

So, if you grab cu29... pair it with a nice clean preamp and you will be happy for life.
Yes! We have a CU29 and run it into a WA12 which is similar to the Tonebeast. Very good combo! We combine it with the Chandler Limited TG-Opto compressor
Old 20th August 2019
  #230
Here for the gear
 

Earlier in this thread the Lauten Audio Oceanus got some decent love, then it disappeared in later comments. I'm wondering if that is due to technical problems with the mic. I read a complaint that said the Oceanus went through tubes at an alarming rate. No biggie...complaining about stuff is probably 3/4 of the entire internet. I wanted to buy one, and I found one locally. The guy said it was mint but needed a new tube and he would include 3 extras. I balked, thinking that he probably fried it somehow. Now there is one on Reverb, and it has a problem with bad tubes every few months. Three instances of problems shouldn't kill off a mic model, but I don't want to deal with constant tube replacement.

Does anybody know if this is a diagnosed problem?
Old 20th August 2019
  #231
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
I'd still get a used/excellent condition Sennheiser 441 before that. AEA N22 ribbon is also top notch, for just a little more new. Chris
Considering both of these. How's the N22 in a fairly untreated room?
Old 20th August 2019
  #232
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dickiefunk's Avatar
Mine would be the Vanguard V13
Old 11th September 2019
  #233
Shure ksm44

I have 12 mics from Sterling st55 to u87 Neumann and my Shure ksm 44 is a very very very underrated mic and for the price of one used imho is definitely not close to being beaten at the price point but no mistakes should be made in that price point statement - no matter the cost that Shure ksm 44 cuts through it all like butter - is a tank- has a great sound out the gate and plosives as well as sibilance isnt an issue whatsoever also in a untreated room had a great sound which was a awesome experience...just my newbie 2 cents on mics
Old 11th September 2019
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tobinharris View Post
Considering both of these. How's the N22 in a fairly untreated room?
Sorry Tobin, didn't notice your post till now.

My opinion is that it would be one of the better choices, as you can get relatively close to it.

I would at least however, do the classic SOS advice of putting a duvet or other blanket... Behind the singer. Then I would add a Reflexion filter in front.
(It's a figure 8 after all)

I would also contact AEA directly, as they are very honest and helpful.
FWIW (other than a 44 or R84), this was Wes Dooley's pick for my voice.
And I take his guidance quite seriously. (am OK on mics right now though)

Chris
Old 11th September 2019
  #235
Gear Guru
I seriously wonder whether FET mics don't give you the best offerings. The minute you're into tubes you're into a whole different pricing category... You can look at real hi end companies like Soyuz, Horch (I think), Bock, Brauner, Tonelux/Sony, Chandler, Ehrlund, etc. A deep dive may give surprising results....
Old 14th September 2019
  #236
Gear Addict
 
chipss36's Avatar
 

If I had 2k for a mic, I would build one.
If I could not build one, I would look At beezknees, or stam....
And go with a classic type tried and true clone.
Rather than a modern Newman, or whatever brand.
Old 14th September 2019
  #237
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Within Neumann, a U89i is a solid choice for a used one in excellent condition. It so happens, a used TLM 67 also is a fine choice on me too.

Usually around $1800 for U89i, and $1600 for TLM67. Chris

P.S. If you don't feel compelled to drop $1500 +,
the Bock Soundelux U195, is a valid choice
too.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #238
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Sorry Tobin, didn't notice your post till now.

My opinion is that it would be one of the better choices, as you can get relatively close to it.

I would at least however, do the classic SOS advice of putting a duvet or other blanket... Behind the singer. Then I would add a Reflexion filter in front.
(It's a figure 8 after all)

I would also contact AEA directly, as they are very honest and helpful.
FWIW (other than a 44 or R84), this was Wes Dooley's pick for my voice.
And I take his guidance quite seriously. (am OK on mics right now though)

Chris
Hi Chris, thanks for the info, very useful!
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