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Do Ramsa WR-8428's even exist anymore?
Old 8th May 2017
  #1
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Question Do Ramsa WR-8428's even exist anymore?

So, I love the Ramsa WR-8616 console and as a result have been interested in its larger-format relative, the WR-8428, for a long time. For years, I've been searching Google and eBay for them daily, and have never seen one come up for sale. At some point I gave up on ever buying one, wired my 2 8616's into one big console and got on with it.

But I'm still eBay and google searching for Ramsa WR-8428's, if for no other reason than to appease my OCD. Very little information exists on the searchable internet about them. Even on here there are very few threads about them, and the ones that exist mostly consist of users of Ramsa models talking about their boards and not the WR-8428. The big thing I've learned is that they used one as a prop on the set of the Hannah Montana TV show. My desire to know anything useful about this thing is killing me here.

The differences between the WR-8428 and the WR-8616 (besides the difference in frame size and amount of modules) that I can see from what few photos exist are:
-The WR-8428 uses a different power supply.
-The input modules appear slightly different.
-The group section appears to have two extra modules to the right of the 4 groups that look similar to WU-8102 group modules but with blue faders
-There are an additional four modules to the right of the master modules whose purpose/function I have no idea.
-There are a handful of DB-25 connectors on the back.

Can anybody fill me in? Anyone own one? Can you tell me about it? Share some photos, maybe? Anyone have the manual? Used one in the past?

If nothing else, I really want to know about the 4 mystery strips to the right of the master. But some basic confirmation that these things are still out there would be great at this point.

Thanks.
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Last edited by sadroyhibbert; 9th May 2017 at 12:15 AM.. Reason: Clarification
Old 9th May 2017
  #2
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Nobody?

I figured out sometime yesterday that the 8428 does/did in fact use different input modules. They're WU-8111's, whereas the 8616 uses WU-8101 modules. The visible difference from the picture that's out there appears to be a series of LEDs and maybe switches near the top of the module. Perhaps for tape return routing or indication or something? Otherwise, maybe they are redesigned to work with the different power supply it uses.

Still no clue on the modules to the right of the master though. Maybe some kind of matrix mixer?

I'd still be really curious to hear from just about anyone with experience with one of these.
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Old 21st May 2017
  #3
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For anyone who might care:

http://www.americanradiohistory.com/...1986-11-12.pdf

I found this issue of DB Magazine from November/December 1986 that has a profile piece on the Ramsa WR-8428 starting on page 28 in the PDF. It answers a lot of my questions regarding the board, but opens up a series of new ones. Before I ask them, I'm going to save my breath and wait and see if any GS users have one of these they'd care to talk about. Otherwise, I'm going to amuse myself with the idea that they're just mythical, or Trident A-Range-rare, or something.

C'mon, let's do this internet! Talk to me at great length about this specific Japanese mixing console from the eighties that may or may not exist in the year 2017! Worship it! Trash it! Talk about the WR-S4412 for some reason! I don't care! Anything!

Huh. Maybe this actually belongs in "So Much Gear, So Little Time" now that I think of it. I'm terrible at forums.
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Old 22nd May 2017
  #4
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I have a ramsa digital eq unit. Its amazing but i can find NOTHING about it on line and i reallyreally want to read the manual. There must be a secret hoard of ramsa, somewhere.
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Old 23rd May 2017
  #5
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I used to be a Ramsa man. Now I am a one woman man.
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Old 25th May 2017 | Show parent
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmboy presents View Post
I have a ramsa digital eq unit. Its amazing but i can find NOTHING about it on line and i reallyreally want to read the manual. There must be a secret hoard of ramsa, somewhere.
I'm really interested by this. I have seen a handful of digital effects processors bearing the Ramsa name, but I haven't seen a specific EQ one. I know that a lot of people have said good things about the A/D and D/A conversion of the Ramsa units, so I can imagine they probably work quite well.

My researching their products leads me to believe that they released far more products in Asia and elsewhere than in the US. It seems like most of the literature out there is in Japanese. It's really interesting, because it seems like there are a lot of people with their hands on weird Ramsa stuff, but they are either not the type to speak up about them, or have a secret to keep regarding them. It's certainly funner to think the latter when you own Ramsa stuff no one wants to talk to you about.

Share a pic of the thing if you're bored enough to do so!
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Old 11th June 2017
  #7
Here for the gear
RAMSA 900 series

I own a RAMSA 900 series desk.
Love the sound of it .its 32 channels and has those matrix channels also.
No manual for it though. I was trying to buy the same 24 channel one but was too late.
Had to wait and the same guy got me this even nicer and huge 900 series
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Do Ramsa WR-8428's even exist anymore?-img_1213.jpg  
Old 11th June 2017 | Show parent
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronvanzelst View Post
I own a RAMSA 900 series desk.
Love the sound of it .its 32 channels and has those matrix channels also.
No manual for it though. I was trying to buy the same 24 channel one but was too late.
Had to wait and the same guy got me this even nicer and huge 900 series
Oh man, that's killer! I don't think I was even familiar with the 900 series. I read obsessively about the WR- stuff from the 80's, but anything after that I'm clueless. Is that thing built for studio use? I mean, clearly you've got it working for studio use at least!

I might be straight up making this up, but I am almost positive I read somewhere that Eddie Vedder tracks his vocals through a Ramsa console similar to yours . . . I'm thinking it's an 840 or something, though.

Just for fun, here's my dual WR-8616 setup:
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Do Ramsa WR-8428's even exist anymore?-eq36zq.jpg  
Old 11th June 2017 | Show parent
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronvanzelst View Post
No manual for it though.
I laugh. Where are all the Ramza [email protected]#[email protected]@# i think a mad hoarder has bought them all and stored them in a secret bunker, far from our curious eyes.
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Old 11th June 2017
  #10
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Seriously! I have obtained a handful of manuals from more common models by virtue of OCD and internet lurking, but the ones in question are even more rare than the boards they belong to, I swear haha. Some of them can be bought in a physical 70-or so page booklet for a bargain price of like 70 bucks, but even I'm not obsessed enough to blow that kind of cash on 'em.
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Old 11th June 2017
  #11
Here for the gear
It was built for theater use I think. It is a LCR set up mixer.
Also has these crazy air mic inputs. Guess for mics hanging from the theater ceiling.
I'm using it in my studio. Love the preamps.
Insert send does not interrupt the signal and can use the HPF and eq to track.
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Old 11th June 2017
  #12
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I have a Ramsa WRS-4424 just sitting around. Haven't put any real use with it yet. I know that doesn't answer your questions. lol
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Old 13th September 2017
  #13
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So, in a turn of events that changes nothing about my lack of real knowledge about this console, I am fairly confident I found the WR-8428 used on the Hannah Montana show. Like, it could just be a coincidence, but here's what appears to be a listing for a rental of this specific board as a prop:

https://www.coastrecording.com/PropW...ps_console.htm
https://www.coastrecording.com/PropW...s/Ramsabig.htm

I also found a studio in Canada that apparently uses one as well. I'm too lazy to hunt down a URL, but perhaps I'll get lucky and they'll chime in here.
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Old 23rd December 2017
  #14
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I just got a ramsa 8428, don’t have it hooked up yet though, need a new converter. The db25 connectors on the back you mentioned are for 24channel tape outs and ins. So 3 db25’s for 24 channels into the 24 channel tape recorder and 3 more db25’s for going back into the board from the tape machine. I’m not sure where to hook up my daw with this board. I was thinking of using these same db25’s for my converters in’s and outs because the computer is kind of replacing the tape machine. But I read on this forum you will be skipping the mic preamps this way, hmm not sure. I would still be hooking my snake up to the xlr preamp in’s for tracking. I would just be using the db25 to send signal to my converter (digital/computer) and back (analog/mixer/monitors).
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Old 25th December 2017 | Show parent
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earwormer View Post
I just got a ramsa 8428, don’t have it hooked up yet though, need a new converter. The db25 connectors on the back you mentioned are for 24channel tape outs and ins. So 3 db25’s for 24 channels into the 24 channel tape recorder and 3 more db25’s for going back into the board from the tape machine. I’m not sure where to hook up my daw with this board. I was thinking of using these same db25’s for my converters in’s and outs because the computer is kind of replacing the tape machine. But I read on this forum you will be skipping the mic preamps this way, hmm not sure. I would still be hooking my snake up to the xlr preamp in’s for tracking. I would just be using the db25 to send signal to my converter (digital/computer) and back (analog/mixer/monitors).
You have no idea how happy this post just made me. Thanks for the info! As far as I can tell, you have a very rare Ramsa. I'm definitely envious, haha. Where did you find it!? I really honestly thought there were only maybe two of them still in existence, tops.

Okay! So the DB25 mystery is solved. I appreciate it! As far as whether or not to bypass the pre's for mixdown, that's a tough decision. I know a lot of people frown upon consoles with line ins that hit the preamps, so there's definitely a school of thought that using the DB25's would be advantageous. But as an owner of the similar WR-8616, all of my line outs from my converters hit the preamps and I love the sound of it. Definitely experiment! There's tone to be found in that thing.

If you get some time, you aught to share some pictures! I'd love to see the console.
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Old 28th December 2017
  #16
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Yeah for sure, I’ll post some pics soon. I got the operating instructions as well as the service manual. I found out my board doesn’t have the “WU-8112 tape monitor group/send module” channel strips so I don’t believe I can use the db25 tape out and ins at the moment anyway. My board has 24 WU-8111 mono input modules, 6 WU-8117 basic group/send modules, 2 WU-8113 master modules, 4 WU-8118 matrix modules, 1 WU-8114 monitor/mono module and a WU-8115 T.B/OSC module. I believe eastern michigan university used to use it for maybe their radio station or something. I just need to get the cabling and a converter for it now.
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Old 28th December 2017 | Show parent
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earwormer View Post
Yeah for sure, I’ll post some pics soon. I got the operating instructions as well as the service manual. I found out my board doesn’t have the “WU-8112 tape monitor group/send module” channel strips so I don’t believe I can use the db25 tape out and ins at the moment anyway. My board has 24 WU-8111 mono input modules, 6 WU-8117 basic group/send modules, 2 WU-8113 master modules, 4 WU-8118 matrix modules, 1 WU-8114 monitor/mono module and a WU-8115 T.B/OSC module. I believe eastern michigan university used to use it for maybe their radio station or something. I just need to get the cabling and a converter for it now.
I look forward to seeing the pictures! That's amusing that it came from Eastern Michigan University, mostly in that both of my WR-8616's came from Michigan colleges as well. Ramsa must have been popular with Michigan academic types.

I'm very curious about the WU-8118 matrix modules, because I have no idea what they do and there is really no information about them on the internet, haha. Do you know what their purpose is, or do you have the manual?

As for the tape returns, I know my 8616's have tape return group modules, which are almost identical in appearance to the ones for the 8428. I am guessing that the difference is that the signal for the 8616 tape returns comes from the line inputs when the mic inputs are in use, whereas the 8428's are supplied by the DB25's as you said. Personally, I find the tape return modules to be pretty much useless for a digital setup, so in my opinion you're better off not using the DB25's for mixing and summing anyway.

I have accumulated quite a bit of information about the 8428 while researching it, so if you have questions or want some pdfs of old reviews and profiles of it in magazine back-issues, PM and let me know. The 8428 is based on the design of the 8616, but with more channels and facilities, as well as an apparently redesigned power supply for headroom purposes. As an 8616 owner, I can probably help some if you need it. And if you ever at literally any point in time decide to sell it, please, for the love of all things audio, PM me! I will buy it!
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Old 29th December 2017
  #18
Gear Head
 

Of what I understand about the matrix modules is that the 4 red knobs represent your busses, 123 and 4, the top two knobs are a send left and a send right. The bottom two knobs are the master left and master right and below that of course the fader. I believe you can use these channel strips for alternative mixes. Since I have 4 of these modules I can essentially have 4 alternate mixes if I have everything assigned to busses. I think it’s more of a broadcast thing where you can do mix minus and broadcasting over multiple media channels. I think it might also be really cool for music production. I’ve reread your first post and you mentioned about the group modules with the blue faders. The ones with the red faders are just normal group buss faders but they call the two in blue send left and send right. I think they are found a lot in michigan because Windt, the designer of these boards was based in Detroit I believe. I can’t remember his first name. I do have the operation and service manuals. The service manual is pretty incredible, it has details of every circuit on the board and how to adjust the board for servicing. I hope I never have to sell it but if I do I’ll let you know.
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Old 29th December 2017
  #19
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Here you go
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Attached Thumbnails
Do Ramsa WR-8428's even exist anymore?-b7b5b049-cfde-472c-8fee-fccaffdf3546.jpg   Do Ramsa WR-8428's even exist anymore?-da25cea5-8534-4c5e-add4-5515727513aa.jpg   Do Ramsa WR-8428's even exist anymore?-ed61b1f9-0f7a-4d1a-b8df-940ef047e94c.jpg   Do Ramsa WR-8428's even exist anymore?-0cc44ae0-5d0f-49b6-9f38-84fd6d4284a7.jpg   Do Ramsa WR-8428's even exist anymore?-453d8cb6-ad82-47c4-8a34-24d7f35616c7.jpg  

Do Ramsa WR-8428's even exist anymore?-a7059003-0d7e-4342-81f5-7ceb7d05bf2c.jpg   Do Ramsa WR-8428's even exist anymore?-1b4a777b-9fd3-4f5d-acc5-9550ff2e4273.jpg   Do Ramsa WR-8428's even exist anymore?-5f4039a6-499c-4492-8440-397cbfcfc019.jpg   Do Ramsa WR-8428's even exist anymore?-0cc8dfa3-6508-4d0c-8926-310aee8b46a4.jpg  
Old 30th December 2017 | Show parent
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earwormer View Post
Here you go
Thank you so much! I swear, you have easily doubled the number of pictures of WR-8428's on the internet, haha. Also, thank you for the information on the matrix strips; that makes perfect sense. I know I read in an old issue of db magazine that they were developing alternate strips for surround sound mixing to be used in the slots for the matrix strips, but I am unsure if they ever went into production.

Seriously, I have been obsessed with finding more information about these boards, so I really appreciate the information. Also, your set up looks great!
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Old 31st December 2017
  #21
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Thanks, I was cleaning it today and checking out the direct outs, everything seems to work so far. The matrix is kind of confusing to me also, each matrix channel strip is mono. I was wondering how I could use them today. Still not sure.
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Old 31st December 2017 | Show parent
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earwormer View Post
Thanks, I was cleaning it today and checking out the direct outs, everything seems to work so far. The matrix is kind of confusing to me also, each matrix channel strip is mono. I was wondering how I could use them today. Still not sure.
I'm happy to hear that it's in working order so far! Yeah, I was afraid they'd be mono, with each bus having its own knob and all. Besides setting up mono headphone mixes, I'd be at a loss for what you could do with them . . . Perhaps they can be used as additional auxes if you've got open channels to return them into. Well, except that you couldn't route the return channels into any thing being sent out of the matrix strips without a feedback loop. Haha, but I bet they were somehow really useful in 1987!

But speaking of puzzling mono routing Ramsa issues, here's something that might help: Now I'm not sure about the 8428, but the 8616 came stock with the groups set up to be used as 4 mono groups without the ability to pan between them like any more typical modern console. This was apparently for broadcast and A/V studio reasons that I couldn't personally explain. But, to use them as stereo groups with the ability to pan between them, this can be done by flipping a switch on the circuit board of the mono strips. I would assume it'd be the same on the 8428 as well.

I don't know if you have the manual for it or anything, so you may already be aware of this. But it never hurts to share!
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Old 31st December 2017
  #23
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Also, spotted this today: The OG Hannah Montana Ramsa (Hannah Montamsa?). Definitely a WR-8428!
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Old 5th January 2018
  #24
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Ha, it looks like it’s working also. I’ll have to get out the manual and research those matrix channels some. I was thinking I could use them as different headphone mixes or something. I was able to pickup some cheap snakes. I have the direct outs going into my mr816 preamps. Everything sounds fine so far, did a test recording of some drums yesterday. I want to get an Orion 32 soon so I can bypass the 816’s preamps though. I can’t wait to use it more thoroughly.
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Old 5th March 2018
  #25
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I have an 8428 myself....one thing I've found is that by assigning input channels to busses instead of the master, the stereo field collapses and isn't nearly as wide as assinging the channels directly to the master. What's this about? The busses are automatically routed to the master as I see it.

Thanks for any help!
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Old 7th March 2018 | Show parent
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown soldier View Post
I have an 8428 myself....one thing I've found is that by assigning input channels to busses instead of the master, the stereo field collapses and isn't nearly as wide as assinging the channels directly to the master. What's this about? The busses are automatically routed to the master as I see it.

Thanks for any help!
I know the busses themselves are mono so to get them to be in stereo you have to use them in pairs. So, one buss would be panned left and the other buss panned right. I haven’t used it enough to notice a difference in the stereo field when using the busses yet though. I hope that’s not the case.
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Old 11th March 2018
  #27
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Even when using the 8428 busses as a stereo pair it does not have the spread assigning directly to the master buss. If you take a pair of tracks, assign to the stereo bus, it's good and wide with a nice spread...assign them to a pair of busses instead (that are feeding the stereo buss), and the spread isn't as wide. Give it a shot and let me know if you same issue. Seems kind of strange but its definitely there for me...

Oh, and if you have the manual I'd love to get a copy! PM me if you can..

Thanks
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Old 12th March 2018 | Show parent
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown soldier View Post
Even when using the 8428 busses as a stereo pair it does not have the spread assigning directly to the master buss. If you take a pair of tracks, assign to the stereo bus, it's good and wide with a nice spread...assign them to a pair of busses instead (that are feeding the stereo buss), and the spread isn't as wide. Give it a shot and let me know if you same issue. Seems kind of strange but its definitely there for me...

Oh, and if you have the manual I'd love to get a copy! PM me if you can..

Thanks
Hey, I PM'd ya back! I don't have the schematic, unfortunately . . .

I can't speak for the 8428, but on the 8616 the group assignments on the mono channel strips have a switch on the circuit board itself that selects between using each group as an individual mono bus (1, 2, 3, 4) without the ability to pan between them, or as pairs (1-2, 3-4) that you can pan between. I had this problem on some strips on mine, and considering that the 8428 is based on the 8616, I would not be surprised if this is the case. Try pulling a channel strip and looking for a little box switch that may have a pcb marking that says "PAN" or something. If you find something, flip it, reinstall the channel and see if you still have the problem.

The only other thing I can think of is the groups' level and pan assignment to the master is controlled by a concentric pot on the group switch on the 8616's groups, which are by design very similar to the 8428's. There's the group fader, the return input pot, and then the concentric pot for the master assignment. The top controls the level, and the bottom controls the pan. In case yours is the same and you missed that, it's worth mentioning.

Hopefully this helps. You aught to share some pictures! Funny to think/say, but you have a fairly rare board.
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Old 17th March 2018 | Show parent
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown soldier View Post
Even when using the 8428 busses as a stereo pair it does not have the spread assigning directly to the master buss. If you take a pair of tracks, assign to the stereo bus, it's good and wide with a nice spread...assign them to a pair of busses instead (that are feeding the stereo buss), and the spread isn't as wide. Give it a shot and let me know if you same issue. Seems kind of strange but its definitely there for me...

Oh, and if you have the manual I'd love to get a copy! PM me if you can..

Thanks
I’ll try and scan my operation manual this weekend.
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Old 20th March 2018 | Show parent
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sadroyhibbert View Post
Hey, I PM'd ya back! I don't have the schematic, unfortunately . . .

I can't speak for the 8428, but on the 8616 the group assignments on the mono channel strips have a switch on the circuit board itself that selects between using each group as an individual mono bus (1, 2, 3, 4) without the ability to pan between them, or as pairs (1-2, 3-4) that you can pan between. I had this problem on some strips on mine, and considering that the 8428 is based on the 8616, I would not be surprised if this is the case. Try pulling a channel strip and looking for a little box switch that may have a pcb marking that says "PAN" or something. If you find something, flip it, reinstall the channel and see if you still have the problem.

The only other thing I can think of is the groups' level and pan assignment to the master is controlled by a concentric pot on the group switch on the 8616's groups, which are by design very similar to the 8428's. There's the group fader, the return input pot, and then the concentric pot for the master assignment. The top controls the level, and the bottom controls the pan. In case yours is the same and you missed that, it's worth mentioning.

Hopefully this helps. You aught to share some pictures! Funny to think/say, but you have a fairly rare board.
Pulled out the bus module, didn't see any kind of adjustment for mono/stereo...but, a work around would be to take the bus outs and go back into a pair of input channels. Just want to to do parallel drum processing...
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