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Soundcraft Signature MTK's status
Old 4th April 2017 | Show parent
  #661
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bowzin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelyfan View Post
Right, that's one of the things I couldn't get past, no inputs in DAW for subgroups or aux's, those had to be sent through open channels. Keeping my 8 input interface and looking for pure analog board with subs and aux's is a better fit for my workflow. I really was interested in the MTK, but I enjoy my process too much to start having to run workarounds. Everything pre eq and faders also is unusual as I think this mixer is really aimed at the home studio crowd.
Yeah I'm just salty because I'm a big believer and proponent of this type of form factor: an all-analog, full-featured board that adds ad/da on each individual channel (not just a master stereo in/out). I hope any success of the Signature line motivates them to continue working on this idea! Clearly enormous interest!

The Mackie 1640i could do this back 8-9 years ago, and had inserts, but was Firewire which is basically obsolete on laptops these days. The Mackie was like $1200-1400 when it came out I think, so Soundcraft is cutting that nearly in half, awesome! I bought the Mackie almost new, couldn't believe the feature set (16in x 16out). Can be had for $500-700 used these days, so these Soundcrafts may put the final nail in that coffin.

I used it for years and loved the form factor and flexibility. Used it live all the time too and it was GREAT live (important for an analog mixer format!). I finally sold it when I couldn't find any new laptops with Firewire. I would be very much on board with something like this series but it has to integrate with outboard hardware better and work live.
Old 7th April 2017
  #662
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grasspike's Avatar
Long time lurker of this thread

Anyway after a few years of not having any type of studio space at home my wife and I are moving into a new home and I once again will have a playroom/studio. I wanted to share my idea in the hopes that it will be of help to others

I have been doing live sound for a very long time, worked full time doing sound for many years but no longer do that as I enjoy sleeping in my own bed, I also enjoy playing with synths and making music at home

As I put my studio space together I was really torn between building it around the 22 Channel Soundcraft MTK or the Behringer X32. I am ultra familiar with the X32 and love it, have tons of experience using it in live sound settings. I love the preamps and the boatload of very good effects built in especially the reverbs, and the USB Audio In/Out to my DAW (Studio One v3).

What I don't like about the X32 is the price (can't justify dropping 2 grand) and for home/studio use I would miss analog controls

So that drove me to check out the 22 Channel MTK which is way cheaper and offers great USB In/Out as well as analog controls.

As a synth guy I use effects especially reverbs, chorus, and delay as part of my sound design all 3 of which the X32 excels at and which I want to record with, the X32 makes this very easy as it's set up to work with Behringers P16 monitoring system so you get 16 post EQ, Post Effects send that you can route via USB to your DAW the soundcraft has some built in effects as well but it's harder to record them hence why I am torn.

So being that this is Gearslutz I came up with an option to my GAS. Adding a Behringer X Air X18 to my arsenal in addition to the Soundcraft MTK. The Behringer Air X18 is a small form factor digital mixer that you control with an iPad or PC/Laptop, you can even use a cheap Android Tablet, but at it's heart it has the DSP of it's big brother the X32. It's a small box with 16 Combi Jacks on top and 6 analog Aux sends on the back on 1/4" jacks. The Behringer App is very easy to use and has deep routing options.

My idea is to plug synths into the X18 and use its DSP to run EQ, reverbs, compressors ect then route those to the via the AUX outs to the MTK, and run the aux out and/or sub groups from the MTK into the X18 for when I want to record the EQ and effects from the MTK. It sounds way more complex than it really easy and easy to setup in my DAW and using the Behringer App

The X18 costs less than a quality external fx and this combo would be $750 less than an X32 and give me analog summing on the mix

The whole idea behind this is to make sound design easier and take DSP load off my PC, the unknown at this point which is not a deal breaker is how well the drivers from the Soundcraft and the Behringer will play with each other, I know the Behringer Driver is rock solid

Just having a 22 input interface with analog summing is my main goal
Old 7th April 2017
  #663
Gear Maniac
 

Hi all - wondering if anyone can help me out with an issue I ran into. I set this up to run in and out of the MTK22 live for a coffee house style gig. I am running just 8 channels in. I set it up in Logic to run compressors on each channel and and run 3 effects busses back to the board on channels 17-22. Everything works great through Logic. However, running the same setup on Mainstage does not give me any sound - I have input but no output it seems. I don't have much experience with Mainstage - it has no "input monitoring" like on Logic but I assume because you are always passing sound. Anything basic I could be missing?
Old 12th April 2017 | Show parent
  #664
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopespace View Post
ok ... I recorded a track of the master channels 23-24 of 22 mtk in USB mode with all channels muted and fader down ... only the master and this is the mythical 8khz whine ... now I well insulated and is at 8 khz.
it must be said that to insulate the signal I then turned up the track in more 35 db with utility ableton, equalized with eq 8 to insulate the frequency and is approximately of 8 kHz and then I have an internal digital bounce to ableton and this is the result ... I know now this will become your nightmare ... and I hope soundcraft answer me
ah if the mixer is not in USB mode you only hear the noise and not the noise 8khz which is normal in an analog mixer ... I have used various DDA, Dayner, Mackie, Soundcraft, Soundtracs, Teac system 15 ...
You should also check that you have the 8khz whine of your 22 mtk if it is a general problem or is it just my mixer thanks Dopespace
I have the same problem from day one. I think it is a design flaw or bad quality control. the spikes at 8 and 16 also appear when I use the board connected to a laptop running on batteries to eliminate usb groundloop issues. also, unmuting the fx channels results in an additional 2khz spike. soundcraft told me to contact my dealer, so I guess after one year of this annoying sound I will either get a new board or give it back.
Old 13th April 2017
  #665
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gelabs's Avatar
Indeed

I can't use image tags in post, so -> http://i.imgur.com/ubvxXeZ.png
Old 13th April 2017 | Show parent
  #666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gelabs View Post
Indeed

I can't use image tags in post, so -> http://i.imgur.com/ubvxXeZ.png
that looks exactly like my measurings. so, three people on this thread already with the same problem. maybe someone from soundcraft could clarify.
Old 13th April 2017
  #667
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I am seriously considering getting a Tempest. While it is very expensive, it seems like a very solid machine. I have read many of the comments regarding it. My one question is whether the bugs have been sufficiently resolved. It seems like they have. I guess I need to spend a few more hours researching this.
Old 13th April 2017
  #668
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Hide's Avatar
Just in case, I checked my 22 MTK to connect my PC by USB, and inserting the analyzer (Voxengo Span) at ch 23-24 stereo audio track.
Pressed "MUTE" all channels including FX returns, and then turned full-volume of the MASTER fader.
I don't see any spikes such as at around 8KHz or 16KHz. By the way, my PC is desktop (white box).
Old 14th April 2017 | Show parent
  #669
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterwdurham View Post
I just got home with my mtk22, and yes it is noisy when powered up, sounds like a transformer to me.
Thanks for the info. It's weird because it's intermittent. Sometimes it's almost completely silent, sometimes it's pretty damn loud (like now). Has nothing to do with the input load on the mixer or anything. Very, very strange. And very, very annoying.

It's seriously my only gripe with this mixer.
Old 14th April 2017 | Show parent
  #670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hide View Post
Just in case, I checked my 22 MTK to connect my PC by USB, and inserting the analyzer (Voxengo Span) at ch 23-24 stereo audio track.
Pressed "MUTE" all channels including FX returns, and then turned full-volume of the MASTER fader.
I don't see any spikes such as at around 8KHz or 16KHz. By the way, my PC is desktop (white box).
thanks for checking this! did you try unmuting the channels one by one? the noise keeps adding up, while it's almost not there on only 23/24 it becomes a lot more apparent the more channels are added.
Old 14th April 2017
  #671
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gelabs's Avatar
USB Specifications

Quote:
The Bus Clock: Packet data on the USB cable runs at a 1.0 millisecond period (1 kHz frequency) on full-speed, and at a 125.0 microsecond period (8 kHz frequency) on high-speed. The clock period of the Bus is indicated by the rate of the Start Of Frame (SOF) packets.
So, the 8kHz spike is the bus clock. I can't find what is the 16kHz spike (harmonic ?).

I think this can be filtered out with a noise-reduction profile while doing mastering but it would be nice if it wasn't there at all.
Old 14th April 2017 | Show parent
  #672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AL Berlin View Post
thanks for checking this! did you try unmuting the channels one by one? the noise keeps adding up, while it's almost not there on only 23/24 it becomes a lot more apparent the more channels are added.
Got it! I mean, I don't want to get it but actually... ah, got it.

I found that problem when I set FULL-VOLUME of FX-RETURN-1 or FX-RETURN-2 even if MUTED all of tracks (1 to 22 ch).

So... my case is, it's subtle but FX track makes strange spike at 8KHz and 16KHz.

Fortunately I don't use Signature's internal FXs (I always mute FX returns), that's why I didn't realize this problem...

But... hmmmm it's sad to find this problem.
Attached Thumbnails
Soundcraft Signature MTK's status-22mtk.jpg  
Old 17th April 2017 | Show parent
  #673
Here for the gear
 

Hi all,

I am about to buy a Signature 12 MTK, but I first want to be sure that it is compatible with MacOS 10.12.x (Sierra). On Soundcraft support page, they claim that the mixer is compatible "up to 10.11.x (Lion)"... and they to not reply to my query.
Hence if any of you could confirm that all USB inputs/outputs can be used on Sierra, it would be nice!

Thanks!
Old 18th April 2017 | Show parent
  #674
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by morvan View Post
Hi all,

I am about to buy a Signature 12 MTK, but I first want to be sure that it is compatible with MacOS 10.12.x (Sierra). On Soundcraft support page, they claim that the mixer is compatible "up to 10.11.x (Lion)"... and they to not reply to my query.
Hence if any of you could confirm that all USB inputs/outputs can be used on Sierra, it would be nice!

Thanks!
Just used my 22MTK with the current OSX the other day. No issues
Old 18th April 2017 | Show parent
  #675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benxiwf View Post
Just used my 22MTK with the current OSX the other day. No issues
Excellent, thanks.
Old 20th April 2017 | Show parent
  #676
Gear Addict
 
E.Shostokavitch's Avatar
 

I'm about to ditch a cumbersome iD22 -> Soundcraft EPM6 -> Behringer ADA8000 -> iD22 set up for a new Signature MTK 12

my only two questions are this:

How powerful/noisy is the headphone out? Can it be driven hard without introducing its own saturation?

AND

in competition with an iD22, or a new MOTU, what is the quality of conversion like?

Thanks!!

p.s. looking to purchase tomorrow so swift replies appreciated
Old 20th April 2017 | Show parent
  #677
Quote:
Originally Posted by E.Shostokavitch View Post
I'm about to ditch a cumbersome iD22 -> Soundcraft EPM6 -> Behringer ADA8000 -> iD22 set up for a new Signature MTK 12

my only two questions are this:

How powerful/noisy is the headphone out? Can it be driven hard without introducing its own saturation?

AND

in competition with an iD22, or a new MOTU, what is the quality of conversion like?

Thanks!!

p.s. looking to purchase tomorrow so swift replies appreciated
The headphone output is powerful enough for beyerdynamic dt770 250ohm edition on high volumes imo. Wouldn't hesitate to use it unless your headphones are extremely high impedance or at least in the $300+ price range. The conversion will probably be a slight step down from the ID22 (haven't heard the latter) and it only does 44.1k or 48k, but I'm not sure I'd actually hear the difference.
Old 24th April 2017
  #678
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IkigaiGiraffe's Avatar
 

Hey, SIG 22 MTK owner here. From my experience and what I can read there seems to be a design/production flaw here.

This problem has been reported over the last few pages and I'm kicking myself for glossing over those posts before purchase.

The 8 khz and 16 khz spikes recording the master channel over usb are real.

MTK owners, open your DAW, select input 23/24 (master). Monitor that input. Place a spectrum analyzer plugin on the channel. You will notice the normal analogue noise floor which will increase the more channels you turn up and assign to the master. This is normal.
Now notice the 8khz and 16khz spikes. They will be more noticeable once you assign ANY channel to the master output by pressing the MST send switch, and it stacks the more channels you add. This will STILL APPEAR if you have the faders at -infinity once the send to master switch is engaged.

I have gone back and checked recordings from the master 23/24, and it has the spikes printed with the sounds. I noticed it before seeing it on the spectrum, but I assumed it was noise from something else. More testing shows the spikes appearing even with no channels sending anything anywhere and all faders at infinity. Push the master up and quieter versions of the spikes appear.
I should note that for all these tests all fx faders, sends, aux pots and everything on the mixer are at -infinity or OFF.

After testing everything I can think of it seems that this is a design flaw.
The desk is great, onboard fx are quite noisy. The FX themselves are decent. The EQ's and general sound of running stems or recording through the desk is great, really adds that analogue weight and depth. The volume drop recording over usb is annoying and far too much but I remember the MX1 did the same thing, a simple normalise works around it.


Gearsluts won't let me link images but heres my master channel spectrum with nothing playing, all faders at inifity, channels routed to the master. It's audible at higher master fader levels.
http://i68.tinypic.com/j96ipz.jpg
Old 24th April 2017
  #679
Gear Maniac
 

And what is the problem with these spikes, exactly...? Bad sound quality?
Old 24th April 2017 | Show parent
  #680
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Hide's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by actarus_23 View Post
And what is the problem with these spikes, exactly...? Bad sound quality?
It is unwanted "sound" that this mixer will add.
Old 24th April 2017
  #681
Gear Maniac
 

And this "sound" can really corrupt your recordings?
Old 24th April 2017
  #682
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Hide's Avatar
hmm? Already explained in this thread...
Old 24th April 2017
  #683
Gear Maniac
 

Sorry but I can't read everything......... Please could you resume in one phrase?
Old 24th April 2017 | Show parent
  #684
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IkigaiGiraffe's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by actarus_23 View Post
Sorry but I can't read everything......... Please could you resume in one phrase?
You don't want piercing tonal spikes in your recording. It's similar to someone going EEEEEEEE as high as they can while your recording a vocalist or guitar or anything.

I have filled out a support form on the Soundcraft website, hopefully I'll hear back from them.
Old 24th April 2017
  #685
Gear Maniac
 

Please let us know!!
Old 24th April 2017
  #686
Lives for gear
 

My Signature 22 MTK has no such problem.
Old 25th April 2017
  #687
I want one but if the MTK 12 is having problems like that then i dont know.
Old 25th April 2017 | Show parent
  #688
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steelyfan's Avatar
 

Is anyone using this mixer just as an analog mixer without the USB recording interface? If so, can the eq and faders be used post gain to record? I guess that feature is still a blurr to me. I ask because with 5 aux sends a master buss and 2 group channels this would still make a decent mixer to use with an existing setup. And then maybe down the line incorporate it with it its USB functionality.

There's really not much out there in the new analog mixer range with these many features, even without the USB interface aspect.
Old 25th April 2017
  #689
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IkigaiGiraffe's Avatar
 

Just doubled checked everything I could think of, tried different ferrite shielded USB cables, checked for ground loops, tried different outlets with just the computer and signature plugged in.
I live with two other producers, tested on a macbook with its power unplugged, same issue. Tested on another Windows 10 production pc in a different room, same issue.
In the dropbox folder below is a screenshot of the spectrum from each session, nothing running through the desk, channels assigned to the master with the faders down. monitoring usb return 23/24 (master input).
Also there are two audio files. One I recorded on my housemates macbook with its power supply unplugged, the other one on another housemates windows 10 pc. 8 and 16 khz spikes can be seen and heard.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/m0aaw6s2q...IhTjRRNha?dl=0

I'll have to return the unit to the store I purchased it from this week, would love to hear any suggestions
Old 25th April 2017 | Show parent
  #690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IkigaiGiraffe View Post
Just doubled checked everything I could think of, tried different ferrite shielded USB cables, checked for ground loops, tried different outlets with just the computer and signature plugged in.
I live with two other producers, tested on a macbook with its power unplugged, same issue. Tested on another Windows 10 production pc in a different room, same issue.
In the dropbox folder below is a screenshot of the spectrum from each session, nothing running through the desk, channels assigned to the master with the faders down. monitoring usb return 23/24 (master input).
Also there are two audio files. One I recorded on my housemates macbook with its power supply unplugged, the other one on another housemates windows 10 pc. 8 and 16 khz spikes can be seen and heard.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/m0aaw6s2q...IhTjRRNha?dl=0

I'll have to return the unit to the store I purchased it from this week, would love to hear any suggestions
I did the same, performed myriads of tests in all kinds of environments. my dealer (thomann germany) will send it to soundcraft for repair, but also made it clear that if this might be a user error (which it is not) I would be charged for it. also they won't give me a replacement for the downtime of 3 to 4 weeks, which I cannot afford at all at the moment.
It is really a good sounding desk, but there are too many quirks about and I can't afford losing time, so I am selling the unit.
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