The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
BEHRINGER warehouse Burns down
Old 21st January 2007
  #91
Lives for gear
 
HEADROOM's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
If someone comes up to you with a great piece of gear that you can use very good in your music, but you know it's stolen, what do you do? Buy it?
I wouldnt

But as far as copyrights are concerned (same basic ethical problem):


What a lot of people do: They use samples from a sampling cd that a friend copied them.
As soon as they release something , using that material, they buy the sampling CD.


www.nickoosterhuis.com
Old 21st January 2007
  #92
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaoticz View Post
So the gear was so **** that customers kept returning it for repair or other warranty issues? And how this is related exactly to what was said earlier in this thread? 'Behringer copies everything so burn in hell' (as part of it technically did). That didn't explain at all why did you name yamaha as original which was copied by Behringer. Making bad quality gear and making copies of design is not the same thing now is it?
in this case it is.
Behririinger makes a few pieces that have pretty ok quality, and are even innovative, and not copies. But most of their stuff are just imitations, and fall apart after some use. Never mind the sound even. Also another issue, that IMO is important: the consumer gear approach is not the right way for ANYBODY. If a behrhringer breaks, they scrap it inmediately. Now would that happen with a DW Fearn, to take an obvious example? What happens if it happens to a million of those berhringerr pieces? What happens to our planet? What a WASTE of resources! I know exactly the same thing is going on with cheap DVD players, etc. but, that doesn't make it right. And please don't give me the "it gives poor ppl. the tools they wouldn't have otherwise". That IMO is not true. Ppl. that have the money to buy a berighigeer could just as well save a tiny bit more and buy something from an original company.

What is so hard to understand about this? Seems the guys owning Berrrhirriger stuff are sort of rationalising using those, by denying the not so clean slate of the company. Hey guys! Don't take it personal. I have a piece made by Ulli and I use it. And this thread became just a rant, and should be in the moan zone. People here are entitled to hate berigghehr.
So what?
Old 21st January 2007
  #93
Quote:
Originally Posted by HEADROOM View Post
I wouldnt

But as far as copyrights are concerned (same basic ethical problem):


What a lot of people do: They use samples from a sampling cd that a friend copied them.
As soon as they release something , using that material, they buy the sampling CD.


www.nickoosterhuis.com
mmm, yes ok, that also goes for software for a lot of people. But do people that make music and use the berirnger stuff, and then sell their music, sell the berhirnger and then buy the original?
Old 21st January 2007
  #94
Gear Head
 

I don't hate Jim Marshall for stealing Leo Fender's design. It's the same thing. As for the Behringer Warehouse burning, How many distribution warehouses do they have in Australia? I know there are three in North America.
Old 21st January 2007
  #95
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
mmm, yes ok, that also goes for software for a lot of people. But do people that make music and use the berirnger stuff, and then sell their music, sell the berhirnger and then buy the original?
They keep using it till it's dead. Then they buy a new piece of gear which could be an original. Now would you spit in a face of artist who as you did find out uses warez but the music he does makes you come?
Old 21st January 2007
  #96
Quote:
Originally Posted by triez View Post
Deadringer make brand new landfill anyway, I guess this just bypasses the bit in the middle where someone pays for it before throwing it away.

THE GOLDEN RULE: SOMETHING IS NOT CHEAP IF YOU HAVE TO BUY IT TWICE.
Billig kauft dreimal.
Old 21st January 2007
  #97
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaoticz View Post
They keep using it till it's dead. Then they buy a new piece of gear which could be an original. Now would you spit in a face of artist who as you did find out uses warez but the music he does makes you come?
no I don't, for example, a friend (part time musician) is using warez exclusively.
I try to convince him of the following:
- life is too short to waste on a job when you are talented enough to make your living with music (yes, he's good)
- warez are good for trying out stuff, or when you own the original but the copy protection is too crappy to use. the moment you sell something you buy the software
- he needs outboard to complement his Nord modular (fat DI's)
- he needs monitor speakers that aren't complete ****e

sometimes I have hope I'm getting through to him heh
Old 21st January 2007
  #98
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
no I don't, for example, a friend (part time musician) is using warez exclusively.
I try to convince him of the following:
- life is too short to waste on a job when you are talented enough to make your living with music (yes, he's good)
- warez are good for trying out stuff, or when you own the original but the copy protection is too crappy to use. the moment you sell something you buy the software
- he needs outboard to complement his Nord modular (fat DI's)
- he needs monitor speakers that aren't complete ****e

sometimes I have hope I'm getting through to him heh
See in this case you saying that Behringer must die just because it's half warez.
Old 21st January 2007
  #99
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaoticz View Post
See in this case you saying that Behringer must die just because it's half warez.
I have to start somewhere.
For myself, I buy all my software, before recieving any return on the investment.
Old 21st January 2007
  #100
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by max cooper View Post
Yes, sorry to all you Behringer-Americans.
? -wrong continent. Chiers!
Old 22nd January 2007
  #101
Lives for gear
 
Bob Yordan's Avatar
Wink

Darn, now I have to cancel all my orders.

Hmm, I really hope the 'Burninger' gear isn't self-igniting?

I hope they are not made of some magnesium phosphor alloy compound?
Old 22nd January 2007
  #102
Lives for gear
 
Acoustic Cloud's Avatar
 

C'mon guys, it wasnt their fire anyway, they stole it.....

-some things you just shouldnt steal-


eeee-hahahaha-har har har har!!!!heh heh heh heh
Old 22nd January 2007
  #103
Gear Addict
 
AdamB420's Avatar
Behringer sucks.

But there is a place for it.

I would not buy "HomeBrand" baked beans. Just pay the goddamn extra 20 cents man. But you have to ask yourself, how bad could a "HomeBrand" dish cloth be? You have to spend more money to make a bad dishcloth than just put a dishcloth in a plastic bag.

My behringer active DI is fine for scratch tracks. My Behringer Ultrapatch Pro is going strong after 8 years and is not noisy or anything. The mulitgate pro is great when I trigger the gate externally. If you buy anything that has "warm tube sound" you deserve to be burned sucker.

Behringer sucks but I would not dance around the factory fire singing and thinking Karma has struck. If Behringer disappeared you bet all other manufactuerers would have the freedom to bump up prices.

But my god Behringer preamps and compressors are so crap.

Adam R Barns
Old 22nd January 2007
  #104
Lives for gear
 
illacov's Avatar
 

Angry What is the big deal with Behringer???

I see that they copy other manufacturer's designs and release them for lower prices, but the only thing that makes it so bad is the way they package it.

Yes its cheaply made, but the fact remains its visually confusing at times to look at some of their stuff and not recognize the similarity to other products like the Xenyx series mixers which are supposed to look like Onyx mixers.

I know that they offer some pretty low ball competition to the mackies and peaveys of the world by using the designs of other companies to produce their lines.

BUT...For what its worth, Behringer is not really as big of a problem as we make it on gearslutz. If you're a US citizen the whole thing with Behringer is a reflection of the US economy and the major flaw with the US business world right now.

How many other things that we have at our beck and call in the US are now in the hands of foreign parties?? Jobs are being outsourced to foreign countries, customer service for necessities is handled in Asia ie telecom, electricity etc...

The US has been willingly selling and shipping off it's intellectual property long before Behringer existed.

How dare we infer that they are the callous ones, when we created the climate. I do own a few of their (Behringer ADA8000) products, but I also own ART products, Yamaha products, MOTU products, Creative, DOD etc..

US citizens have become experts at shifting blame and not accepting responsibility.

Behringer is simply the symptom not the illness. They are the proof that we've f*cked ourselves out of our own future. Look how many other companies are out there that manufacture knock off musical equipment.

Like I said, these companies spend more time repackaging and re-badging their product to fool the consumer, but its the same old hustle we just feel better about it because it doesnt look like something else. Behringer just takes out all the guess work and says "Hey that Mackie you can't afford, we got the bootleg, come get it 2 for 5." Some people will jump at the lower price and other's will pass on it.

I dont see though how what Behringer does is killing the companies that are busy making "authentic" Neve Clones or SSL clones or companies that manufacture Trident Preamps or consoles to name a few. When Behringer makes those compressors or mixers then we have something really going on, but until then I don't see the issue.

FWIW Mackie is really (to me) the same as Behringer. Minus the fact that they dont "steal," in so many words, other peoples designs or schematics.
However, they do fill that void between RadioShack and a company like Tascam. Let's be honest, professionals have used Mackies, but there are professionals that use Behringer stuff too! Mackie is still not some brand that you see on the gear list of recording studios all over the globe. They are for the hobbyist and entry level kid who wants to learn the ropes. Big boys with big pockets will get the expensive toys (like Bang, he had an Onyx board and switched over to a boutique console) and people that cant afford those things will get Mackies or Yamahas and hope one day for a Tascam or maybe a really good Soundcraft,
BUT Behringer makes the gap even smaller because they offer product that's priced lower than Radio shack, which can and does give good results (to the person that would buy a Behringer mixer in the first place). BTW it was because I started my first project studio in 1996 with a Behringer 4 bus that last year I started mixing OTB again. It had to do with the material fro 1996 sounding BETTER off of a Behringer mixer than the DAW in 2006 believe it or not!!)fuuck

BTW Yes I've had my work "stolen", however the difference is that unless I release my material, no one knows its exists. When you patent something it becomes available for others to view the mechanism hence Behringer.

And yet my errors involved not getting my stuff copyrighted at the time, now I do. Now I can take legal recourse. SO can mackie and Peavey and whoever else wants to.

However, one thing I will add is that certain pieces of gear are very locked into place pricing and development wise. I constantly wonder why the hell there are 5 compressors coming out every month all based around the same god damn principles and circuits that have existed since the golden era of equipment. How many more FET compressors can we build?? Or Opto compressors? This is one thing I hate about the gear market right now.

There's absolutely NO incentive for any of these guys to lower their prices. Or truly even change their approach. When the hell are we going to find another way to process audio electronically?? We are in some endless loop pricing and intellectually, that bothers me.

I can't fathom how a nobody can list a new product (a compressor no different than 20 others) for 2995.00 USD and no one says wtf??? I think that companies like Behringer keep the rest of the market honest and allow us to look at what exactly makes a Mackie a mackie and are those differences worth 5 or 9 hundred dollars. I mean you guys do understand you could be talking a difference of 90 dollars in materials costs and Mackie will consider that worth 900 bux.

I want more people to bring out the high endstuff at lower prices and make money in volume, instead of feeding off a select few. Selling 50, 2000 dollar pieces is a nice piece of change but what do you think your chances are next year of making those same sales??

Long live competition ****ty or great. We need more energy/excitement. Its too bad the only people with balls are the dirty rotten scoundrels but oh well, I guess we need people like that too. They encourage the procrastinators to move on and try harder.

Peace
Illumination
Old 22nd January 2007
  #105
Lives for gear
 
bexarametric's Avatar
 

The company I work for is a Behringer dealer (although thankfully there are much better choices). I spend half the day talking people out of buying that crap. I've developed a chop though. When a customer asks "Why don't I want to buy this Behringer product?" I say "Well, do you want ALL of your sound or SOME of your sound, but with added noise?" That usually gets them into at least a Yamaha or a Mackie.

If you completely rip off someones design, yet use the cheapest components that exist to do so, doesn't it kind of defeat the purpose?
Old 22nd January 2007
  #106
Gear Maniac
 

illacoy is right. This dancing around the fire with tambourine is stupid childish behaviour. Those who buys Behringer stuff will learn if they are any serious about whole sound quality thing. And again the price is not a few pennies more. You lots are saying that nobody will buy a KIA because they can buy a Mercedes by saving a few coins.
Old 22nd January 2007
  #107
Lives for gear
 
petsematary's Avatar
 

Behringer makes me sad in the same way cheap-ass TV's, DVD players and basically all cheap crap does. It's a waste of resources and it makes me feel bad whenever I walk into a large warehouse that sells crap like that - be it Behringer Center or whatever. Cheap, plasticky gear is polluting the planet and it shouldn't really exist. But it does because some people con themselves thinking that they've saved a few bucks when in reality the piece they bought is gonna break down after a few months. I agree with some posters in this thread. It's not about bringing cheap quality gear to the masses - that's just advertising. You want cheap - you buy used. What's best for you...and the planet - buying a new 10.000 dollar crap car or a used Audi?

It seems as though the trend nowadays is to make stuff that's not repair-able. Use it and throw it away. Yeah, that's gonna work in the long run...
Old 22nd January 2007
  #108
Gear Addict
 
GravityRobert's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaoticz View Post
Quite pathetic. I've got this feeling while reading this thread that most of you guys are not older than.. hmm.. 5? Wondering how many of you work for mackie or other mentioned companies whom stuff or design or whatever Behringer has stolen. I personally don't use behringer stuff and I don't care if they steal designs or anything. There is plenty of lawyers on the planet earth. And those companies who having this 'problem' with Behringer should care. Not you guys. 'Mom he has a t-shirt just like mine' whiiiiineeee' tutt
Agreed thumbsup
Old 22nd January 2007
  #109
Lives for gear
 
Dave Peck's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaoticz View Post
Quite pathetic. I've got this feeling while reading this thread that most of you guys are not older than.. hmm.. 5? Wondering how many of you work for mackie or other mentioned companies whom stuff or design or whatever Behringer has stolen. I personally don't use behringer stuff and I don't care if they steal designs or anything. There is plenty of lawyers on the planet earth. And those companies who having this 'problem' with Behringer should care. Not you guys. 'Mom he has a t-shirt just like mine' whiiiiineeee' tutt
Actually, there are a lot of people here who work for companies that design and produce pro audio equipment. Personally, I've been doing it for over 25 years for four diffierent pro audio companies, and there are a lot of folks here with far more experience in the business than I.

As far as I know, Beh--- hasn't stolen designs from any of the companies I have personally worked for, but that's not the point. Because of my background, I am very aware of how much time, money, and hard work is involved in creating a new product in this field. And when one company is willing to steal all of that from people who are trying to give you the tools you want, it makes it a lot harder for those companies to keep doing their job. And anyone who uses gear should be pissed off about that.

DP
Old 22nd January 2007
  #110
Lives for gear
 

If you have some gear stacked up in a spare bedroom, basement or you are an occasional user then the cheap stuff will serve you well.

If you do this for a living and have to keep equipment working in order to pay the bills you DON'T buy the cheap stuff. Why? Because it falls apart and will let you down when you are depending on it to work.

Also, re-sell value is a nice thing when you want to move up.

To the guy that is a dealer...

How does Behriger's warrantee work?
You are sent a new, working unit THAT HAS NO KNOBS. You take the knobs off of the broke unit, throw it in the trash and then put the knobs on the working unit.

More cheap stuff that you can't fix?
PreSonus.
I have TWO ACP-88s that don't work correctly, but I can't fix them.
PreSonus won't even touch ACP-8 units any longer!
Old 22nd January 2007
  #111
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Peck View Post
Actually, there are a lot of people here who work for companies that design and produce pro audio equipment. Personally, I've been doing it for over 25 years for four diffierent pro audio companies, and there are a lot of folks here with far more experience in the business than I.

As far as I know, Beh--- hasn't stolen designs from any of the companies I have personally worked for, but that's not the point. Because of my background, I am very aware of how much time, money, and hard work is involved in creating a new product in this field. And when one company is willing to steal all of that from people who are trying to give you the tools you want, it makes it a lot harder for those companies to keep doing their job. And anyone who uses gear should be pissed off about that.

DP
Yeah I get that they can't do anything right and fancy costing billions. When I'm buying something I don't really care how much people were killed during that product beeing designed. As I don't care who uses what. Only thing that matters is a result. Do you really think that if Behringer dies there won't be anymore similar companies? It's a big difference to do something that may solve this and just talk **** I think! And in this case this whole 'dancing around the fire with a tambourine' is nothing more than that believe me. If you want to play Che Guevara go ahead start a lawyer company that will hunt everyone who is making gear costing less than 500 or something like that. There is people in africa who digging diamonds for 5$ a week. Same concept: they are sweating and dying there and someone just moves a pen. I think 90% of Behringer gear users stop playing around with music/noise meaning that they are not serious about it at all. Let's bring down the ****ers who making t-shirts costing less than 2$! Nobody really needs it everyone gets Gucci stuff as it rocks and expensive. Guys over there had a hard job making those fancy designs!
Old 22nd January 2007
  #112
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbbubba View Post
If you have some gear stacked up in a spare bedroom, basement or you are an occasional user then the cheap stuff will serve you well.

If you do this for a living and have to keep equipment working in order to pay the bills you DON'T buy the cheap stuff. Why? Because it falls apart and will let you down when you are depending on it to work.

Also, re-sell value is a nice thing when you want to move up.
Absolute true!
Old 22nd January 2007
  #113
Gear Maniac
Vintage Behringer!

LOL... ok, so it's not an LA2. I've got a 1991 Behringer Autocomp and an intelligate from the same time. These were perhaps three times the price of the "Pro" line that followed. I'm not sure it's a copy of anything but I do know that 15 years later it still works just fine and actually sounds pretty good.

Shortly following these products, something happened to the Behringer product line. I can only surmise that they decided to go for the entry level market with a product that was produced with the cheapest components possible. The foray into intellectual theft was to come later, elevating reverse engineering to an artform and winning new enemies worldwide. Sadly, the vast majority of the folks who buy and use this stuff are either unaware of ethical dilema they face, or more likely.. they simply don't care.

If Behringer didn't exist... someone would take their place before the embers died.
Old 22nd January 2007
  #114
actually.... some of their first boxes were pretty well made I've come to believe (hype)
ppl. advertise that selling it on the evilbay. AND there is ppl. throwing money at it. LOL

so, there you go. vintage berhingger. thumbsup
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump