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Miked Amp or Going Direct Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 9th December 2015
  #61
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneEng View Post

Not sure what bars you frequent, but in my neck of the woods there are many more drum mixes and drummers on acoustic drums that sound bad than those that sound good. Of the local bands that use vDrums, the mixes consistently sound better (including my own band).
Fortunately (for me) I'm not limited to a single area or country and in all my travels this year, (which covered every continent except one), I had the pleasure of seeing and hearing a lot of really good bands, none of them used an electronic kit and only one band had an amp modeler.

Quote:
A fact we can all agree on is that it takes MUCH more skill and equipment to make acoustic drums (in a rock setting as Don pointed out) sound good in the mix than it does to make vDrums sound good in the mix. There are therefore many more situations that will arise where a band with vDrums will sound better than a band with acoustic drums. Sure, higher end acts will sound better. Good Lord lets hope so.
But you forgot to mention that electronic drums don't actually sound like 'real' drums, one would think this would be an important part of the equation. It takes more skill on the part of the musician and the sound mixer to make acoustic drums sound good in a mix, and depending on the situation it may require more equipment too but if all we're looking for is a easy setup, studio mix and less production we could just hire a DJ...In fact, that is the reason some venues hire DJs. This eliminates all the potential problems like off-key singers, bad musicians and bad sound.

Quote:
As for the Kemper, YES. I contend that you could not tell the difference in a blind listening test from the FOH position..... and YES the Kemper can do much more than any 1 great tube amp could ever do ..... because it can sound exactly like any number of good tube amps. Moreover, it can sound like those amps at their best for your particular guitar setup and sound that good every night. I would note that while the rhythm guitar can live quite easily with just a straight DI off of a Kemper, the lead player is still going to need a monitor to get the air interaction with the strings. I play rhythm and can get enough action from most stage setups just from the FOH bleed onto stage, but not on all. For me that is OK since I rarely need to induce feedback for what I do.
At least with an amp modeler the guitar is still a part of the setup unlike electronic instruments.

Quote:
The problem with most of these discussions is that the OP generally is asking about bar venue situations while many people here respond with what an A level act at a major venue would do. I am sure we would all love to have the best musicians and best equipment and best mix engineers at our disposal ..... but sadly, for most of us, that is fantasy land and we unfortunately have to live in the real world.
A 12-piece ska band in an underground space with low ceilings and a capacity of 100, voice and keys only in the PA and monitors 'mixed' on an old Makie VLZ mixer. Appropriately exciting and engaging, but never too loud or annoying.

Quote:
In the real world of bar bands playing rock, you are going to get a better mix going DI. The smaller the venue, the more true this is.
The mix will generally sound better when the musicians and sound mixer (if there is one) know what they're doing...I have a ton of anecdotal experience that proves this is true. i find it interesting that people are advocating the use of aids to get around learning how to play and tune their instruments properly...thing is though, a musician who can't setup his instrument and play with the control necessary to sound good in a smaller space will not sound good with any of this gear.

Last edited by Samc; 9th December 2015 at 03:32 PM..
Old 9th December 2015
  #62
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunedindragon View Post
I couldn't agree more. The problem is there are a LOT of musicians that think they're playing in a colliseum when they're really playing in a bar with horrifying acoustics and a PA system from the 80's, with a "sound engineer" that is also responsible for filling the ice bins at the bar. More times than not they end up with a big mashup of noise which isn't anything close to a clean, articulated and polished studio-level performance.
And the answer to that is to limit yourself with electronics rather than learning how to setup and play properly?!?!

Add the brand new PA that the band bought which allows them to use every bell and whistle known to man while mixing themselves from the stage and you get a royal soup.

Real expert A-list musicians on the other hand do it differently, they use 5-15 watt amps, kits that are setup, tuned and played appropriately...you know, lighter sticks, no cymbal bashing, not using the loudest snare/head combo on the market, playing with a lighter touch... Putting only what's necessary in the PA and playing with control and cohesiveness which only happens when you practice and rehearse a lot. They also don't over-mix in some misguided attempt to sound like a record...which is bunk in my opinion because it's not possible and that's what DJs are for. Everything does not have to be EQed, gated and compressed. Elements of many bar-room gigs I've witnessed and/or been a part of in the past.
Old 11th December 2015
  #63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
And the answer to that is to limit yourself with electronics rather than learning how to setup and play properly?!?!

Add the brand new PA that the band bought which allows them to use every bell and whistle known to man while mixing themselves from the stage and you get a royal soup.

Real expert A-list musicians on the other hand do it differently, they use 5-15 watt amps, kits that are setup, tuned and played appropriately...you know, lighter sticks, no cymbal bashing, not using the loudest snare/head combo on the market, playing with a lighter touch... Putting only what's necessary in the PA and playing with control and cohesiveness which only happens when you practice and rehearse a lot. They also don't over-mix in some misguided attempt to sound like a record...which is bunk in my opinion because it's not possible and that's what DJs are for. Everything does not have to be EQed, gated and compressed. Elements of many bar-room gigs I've witnessed and/or been a part of in the past.
Unfortunately promoting the idea that the skills of the band members has a greater effect on the overall sound of the band than does any gear you could buy kind of flies in the face of the themes promoted on a forum called "Gearslutz"....
Old 11th December 2015
  #64
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunedindragon View Post
Unfortunately promoting the idea that the skills of the band members has a greater effect on the overall sound of the band than does any gear you could buy kind of flies in the face of the themes promoted on a forum called "Gearslutz"....
I know...but i can't stop myself.
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