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Allen and Heath QU24 Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 12th March 2014
  #1
Gear Head
 

Allen and Heath QU24

Hi all.

Recently started using the new desk from A&H. Wondered if anyone had any questions or what people think of it.

Cheers.
Old 12th March 2014
  #2
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Aisle 6's Avatar
Most people will have aired their experiences on the QU16 thread as it is the same architecture. Obviously the increased channel count and matrix and groups will be nice. Any comments on those features?
Old 12th March 2014
  #3
Gear Head
 

What the desk does it does well.

I am however frustrated by the lack of naming ability for both the show files and the channels. The manual suggests that if you plan to keep a pc backup of your shows, duplicate the backup files and rename them on the pc so that you can cross reference the named (redundant) file with the unnamed (useable) file to remember which one you are looking for. Should you go through 5 or 6 shows without backing them up you will have to look back through your diary to remember where you were when you did show0027 and show0028, short of getting the desk from the warehouse to allow it's interface to tell you, since, the way it writes the files, windows and osx can't.

I suppose this is part and parcel of not having an offline editor. Not so necessary I suppose since there's no input patching or channel naming to worry about... but this is my second big frustration.

When I do load up that file from "all the way back then" I have to remember whether or not I micd the hi-hat that night or not, putting the rack tom on channel 3... or was it 4. Hmm... that eq looks like a rack tom so it must be that. Ok next... bass.... now did I mic that or just di it... ok where's my tape and who stole my sharpie...

...seems to me like an unnecessary situation for a digital desk.

Final bugbear is the inability to soft patch at all, let alone feeding two input channels from one input. Guess my passive split for the lead vocalists foh and mons send isn't coming out of retirement yet. I'm not in love with the soundcraft counterpart for this price range... but its ability to soft patch the mic inputs certainly found a little warmth my heart for it.

I don't know if these are firmware fixable issues, but if it was, I'd be surprised if a&h have any intention of changing the desk in these ways. It doesn't strike me that they were worried about these features when designing it in the first place.

Moaning aside... the qu24 does sound great for the funds. And as simplicity of use goes, I couldn't fault it. And it's easier than using crib sheets. ;-)
Old 13th March 2014
  #4
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Wyllys's Avatar
 

Channel designations show up on the Qu-pad app.
Old 19th March 2014
  #5
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monocluster's Avatar
 

The lack of soft-patching is enough to remove this desk from serious consideration by me for personal purchase. I do quite a bit of work that requires double-patching / softpatching and it seems a bit odd that a desk like this wouldn't have that functionality.
Old 19th March 2014
  #6
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Aisle 6's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by monocluster View Post
The lack of soft-patching is enough to remove this desk from serious consideration by me for personal purchase. I do quite a bit of work that requires double-patching / softpatching and it seems a bit odd that a desk like this wouldn't have that functionality.
I also sometimes double patch something, but a "Y" split is always useful to have to achieve this.
Old 19th March 2014
  #7
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Yeah I do lots of festivals and stuff where there's quick turnover and lots of changeovers on stage. Softpatch and the ability to change it by recalling scenes is really a must-have for my staff in these situations.
Old 19th March 2014
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monocluster View Post
Yeah I do lots of festivals and stuff where there's quick turnover and lots of changeovers on stage. Softpatch and the ability to change it by recalling scenes is really a must-have for my staff in these situations.
Yeah, I hear ya. Although in that case try a GLD or Venue or similar.
Old 19th March 2014
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aisle 6 View Post
Yeah, I hear ya. Although in that case try a GLD or Venue or similar.
I'm a Midas boy mes'self. I know that's not your particular cup o' tea. But I like all the colorful buttons.

In all seriousness the Pro series patching interface does leave something to be desired. The GLD drag and drop, if I remember correctly, is pretty intuitive. I haven't used one in a while.
Old 19th March 2014
  #10
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Aisle 6's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by monocluster View Post
I'm a Midas boy mes'self. I know that's not your particular cup o' tea. But I like all the colorful buttons.

In all seriousness the Pro series patching interface does leave something to be desired. The GLD drag and drop, if I remember correctly, is pretty intuitive. I haven't used one in a while.
Haha! I have a dirty little secret Monocluster. After some more time with the Midas and with someone who actually knows them extremely well...I actually kinda like them now. goof
I realise that my experiences have been heavily rooted in the poor workflows of system engineers who probably knew less than I did about them. Once I discussed my issues with a serious systems guy, he showed me really simple solutions and I was really left feeling a little embarrassed. Sometimes we are only as good as our systems engineers. I still have a few pet hates, but am far more open to them now. Shhhh! Don't tell anyone.

Yes, the GLD's drag and drop patching is genius. Priced really well also.

I am really not particularly concerned with a brand though and in fact was researching the new Stagetec Polaris as a touring board. The analog mic inputs have a ridiculous spec. around 150dB of dynamic range and some crazy THD and other spec as well. I am looking into that one, but am not holding my breath. My point being, that I am just particular about certain things and sonics is only one part of that and not even at the top of the list as I can mix on most things. It is important to me, but most of the boards I use sound pretty good.
Old 19th March 2014
  #11
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The biggest Midas "gripe" is that guys don't like the pop groups and want their layers. You can totally use pop groups as layers, though.

Proud of ya, matey. **pats on back**
Old 19th March 2014
  #12
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Aisle 6's Avatar
Made me laugh.
Old 5th April 2014
  #13
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyllys View Post
Channel designations show up on the Qu-pad app.
Ok, you're making me double think... probably due to my own hopefulness... but as I remember, this isn't the case.

You can rename "mic1","mic2" etc on the qu pad app, but it doesn't rename it on the scene, if you will. So when you recall a show for a string quartet you did last week, your qu pad faders, gains, eq etc all recall and the names on the qu pad channels read.... (drumroll)....
Kick in
Kick out
Snare top
Snare bottom
Hats.....

Or whatever you last typed in. So off to look at the eq curves to make sure you havent put your cello in your viola channel...

I really hope that I'm wrong on this. I can't wait to get back onto the desk next week and realise how ******** I have been on this issue... but I've done 3 shows now and this is how I remember it.

In which case... a&h...
Old 6th April 2014
  #14
Gear Maniac
 

That's unfortunately how it works. You have to write down your channel assignments with a pen and paper.
I'm hoping for A&H to implement channel names on the console and syncing them with the app.
Old 6th April 2014
  #15
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLTD View Post
That's unfortunately how it works. You have to write down your channel assignments with a pen and paper.
I'm hoping for A&H to implement channel names on the console and syncing them with the app.
You and me both. Got really excited to see the latest firmware update the other day but no luck on this particular issue as yet....
Old 14th May 2014
  #16
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patrickg's Avatar
 

Hi guys, hopping on this thread here for a question, and it seems like its been answered in reference to 'inability to soft patch'....so can I really not send my mix busses to the master LR, or am I missing something? Is this a soft patch you guys are talking about thats impossible? Seriously hoping a firmware overhaul changes this; or even more hopeful that I'm just missing something.
Old 15th May 2014
  #17
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickg View Post
Hi guys, hopping on this thread here for a question, and it seems like its been answered in reference to 'inability to soft patch'....so can I really not send my mix busses to the master LR, or am I missing something? Is this a soft patch you guys are talking about thats impossible? Seriously hoping a firmware overhaul changes this; or even more hopeful that I'm just missing something.
No mixes to LR, no software patching of channels. You have to do it with cables. Write on the A&H community forum or send them a helpdesk ticket so your "vote" counts.
Old 15th May 2014
  #18
Gear Maniac
 

And no channel names. And no keyed gate... but that's another story.
Old 15th May 2014
  #19
Lives for gear
 

Curious what you didn't like about the Expression Si?

For the price of the Qu-24, you can purchase an X32 which does much more than the Qu-24 (more inputs, scribble strips, channel names, off-line editor, iPad, iPhone, PC, Linux, Mac and Android support applications, DCA's, more matrix mixes, etc, etc). The only reason I can see to recommend the Qu-24 over the X32 is that the Qu-24 doesn't have the word "Behringer" on it (if that matters to you).

Having said all this negative crap, I do like the board. It is a very nice sounding mixer with great efx. You can teach anyone to run it in no time flat.
Old 15th May 2014
  #20
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loujudson's Avatar
I finally found a buyer for my Presonus StudioLive 24-4-2, and immediately got a Qu-24. Haven't had a gig with it yet, but I know I will have a fun time with it! I'm kinda small time, doing 2 to 4 live shows a month, so it will do me fine. Sure, I wish it had scribble strips, but not that many of my gigs are repeats.

My only major disappointment is the USB multitrack is still only 18 channels! What's up with that? I trust they will change it on the next firmware upgrade (won't they!?!). Otherwise very happy with it.
Old 15th May 2014
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
I finally found a buyer for my Presonus StudioLiver 24-4-2, and immediately got a Qu-24. Haven't had a gig with it yet, but I know I will have a fun time with it! I'm kinda small time, doing 2 to 4 live shows a month, so it will do me fine. Sure, I wish it had scribble strips, but not that many of my gigs are repeats.

My only major disappointment is the USB multitrack is still only 18 channels! What's up with that? I trust they will change it on the next firmware upgrade (won't they!?!). Otherwise very happy with it.
Yea, I don't get that either.

Perhaps it is a throughput issue with the USB? I have noticed that the USB protocol at a low level is fairly polling intensive (as opposed to interrupt driven).

Still a pretty thin stretch. The X32 does 32x32 on USB2.0 to a computer. A USB hard drive would easily be able to write much faster than the USB could transfer data.
Old 15th May 2014
  #22
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Thanks. The Qu-24 does plenty of channels USB-B to computer. But I will never own a Behringer anything, so no loss there no matter what anyone says! :-)\\I think it is a delayed normal feature... there was a good bit missing with my first generation Qu-16, too.
Old 15th May 2014
  #23
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Aisle 6's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneEng View Post
Yea, I don't get that either.

Perhaps it is a throughput issue with the USB? I have noticed that the USB protocol at a low level is fairly polling intensive (as opposed to interrupt driven).

Still a pretty thin stretch. The X32 does 32x32 on USB2.0 to a computer. A USB hard drive would easily be able to write much faster than the USB could transfer data.
I believe it is a USB thing. You can do 32 tracks to a computer/DAW through the USB(b) though. So in that regard it is no different to the X32. Everyone seems to be overlooking a feature that sets the QU16/24 apart from many other boards.

1. It is so damn easy to use.

2. The real time low latency round trip from console to DAW and back makes it very impressive.

I have a client who brings in 8 live channels from stage and sends those channels to the DAW in real time. He then process' these channels in the DAW and adds real time soft instruments and other midi performance devices and then stems them all back to 8 channels of the console for mixing through to FOH/MONS etc. The set up for this was literally plug and play and the result was impressive. Not many consoles could pull this off so seamlessly with such a great result.

If DCA's, soft patching etc are necessary then you really should look at alternatives.
Old 16th May 2014
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aisle 6 View Post
I believe it is a USB thing. You can do 32 tracks to a computer/DAW through the USB(b) though. So in that regard it is no different to the X32. Everyone seems to be overlooking a feature that sets the QU16/24 apart from many other boards.

1. It is so damn easy to use.

2. The real time low latency round trip from console to DAW and back makes it very impressive.

I have a client who brings in 8 live channels from stage and sends those channels to the DAW in real time. He then process' these channels in the DAW and adds real time soft instruments and other midi performance devices and then stems them all back to 8 channels of the console for mixing through to FOH/MONS etc. The set up for this was literally plug and play and the result was impressive. Not many consoles could pull this off so seamlessly with such a great result.

If DCA's, soft patching etc are necessary then you really should look at alternatives.
+100 on all you said!

Hmm, all this is really great news! I'd love to be able to use Waves plugins on live shows, and no way can I afford the hardware they sell. You are hinting that I can do that with Pro Tools and the Qu.... Hmmm.
Old 16th May 2014
  #25
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I agree that the Qu is the easiest board to learn of the current crop of MI digital mixers. The latencies on both the Qu and X32 are both very low. The X32 input to output latency worst case is advertised as 0.7mSec and has been measured at 0.85mSec. The advertised latency of the Qu is 1.2mSec. Both are outstanding in this regard. I can't find the numbers for the Expression Si though.

I also agree that if ease of use is more important to you than features, or if the word "Behringer" just kind of gets caught in your throat, the Qu is the best choice.

The Expression Si is more costly, and can't multi-track record without an additional card, but is more flexible .... and can be extended up to 66 inputs which is pretty impressive for a board in this price range.
Old 24th May 2014
  #26
Here for the gear
 

QU-24

can we daisy chain two QU-24?
Old 24th May 2014
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruyan View Post
can we daisy chain two QU-24?
"we?" No. I would never want more than 24 inputs. I'd refer the gig out if more were needed.

But you can run a second mixer and a third into the ST1 and ST2 inputs...
Old 29th May 2014
  #28
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Qu-Drive track limitation

I am trying to understand why there is an 18 track limitation on the Qudrive for the QU-24. My dealer did not know, so I wrote to the A&H tech support, and got this answer:
"Hi Lou,

This is due to the restrictions of the system architecture.
with this in mind, future firmware updates will not see a change to this."

So I asked again, how is it that the rear connector does 32x30 channels to computer, while the front panel USB only does 18. I suppose the rear being USB B, the computer sees it as a device, while the internal chips being USB A lacks the capability... It certainly is not a function of the external drive! I wonder what sort of architecture they mean?

My second inqury brought this response:
"Within 5 year the advancement of science and technology might make this possible at this price point."

I can accept it, and use a computer for more tracks, but it is a bit frustrating after expecting it to be able to record all channels wihout the computer... They make it sound impossible, while I still think it is a lack of slightly better hardware planning... I'd have paid a couple hundred more for the 26 channel capability! :-) So be it, I just wish I understood it better.
Old 2nd June 2014
  #29
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Aisle 6's Avatar
There is most likely a lot of testing with many different hardware configs for running the HD as the stand alone recorder. I have found that it can be quite fussy about the type and size of the HD you use. Obviously a computer hooked up to the console takes away a lot of the DSP control architecture from the console which is likely why it can do more. A limit of DSP perhaps, but more likely the architecture. It is built on their own operating system that they have designed specifically for this series of console. No windows or Linux here. This is really A&H's fist outing into this arena, so it will most likely improve over time. Although we will also probably see these improvements in a new series of console down the track.
Old 2nd June 2014
  #30
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Aisle6, your answer is as close to (and as far from) the truth as I have seen anywhere. We don't have details, but possibly (almost obviously, to me) They designed the Qu-drive section for the Qu-16 and never planned on making a 24, and to get it out at price point and timely, left it handicapped with 18 tracks. Ah well, it is better than anything ese in the price range!

Last night I learned something wonderful, by an unfortunate mistake, with my Qu-24. I was driving house speakers in a school auditorium for a dance performance with lic=ve orchestra, and during soundcheck the power to the mixer (and powered monitors) got unplugged by accident, and after a rather startling but not painful pop got plugged back in immediately. The good news is that it came up in exactly the same state it was in before the power outage, all mixes the same, nothing lost! The musicians, me, and my partner were very happy to not have to start over again in the mixes...
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