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feedback destroyer Utility Software
Old 10th March 2014
  #31
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Those ADF's are like from about 1997, right? heh
Old 10th March 2014
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixer mixer View Post
IMO I find "feedback destroyers" very gimmicky, the 31 band GEQ's do a much better job.
So what exactly makes for a "better job"?

If you were to make a single cut of -12 dB with just a single slider on a typical 1/3rd oct GEQ you would be cutting more that half the power delivered to the speaker over a two octave range.

OTOH if you used a single filter on say a Sabine, DBX or Peavey FBX by the same amount you would get 90% of that back.
Old 10th March 2014
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saggsy View Post
So hence the question as to which feedback suppressor does the best and most transparent job whilst only costing around $500?

Does anyone have this answer? Or would you prefer to add more comment on what he 'should' be doing?
The irony...

The band does not want to pay an engineer to do the work and they want professional engineers to tell them the best way to get out of not paying an engineer...for free!
Old 10th March 2014
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dboomer View Post
So what exactly makes for a "better job"?

If you were to make a single cut of -12 dB with just a single slider on a typical 1/3rd oct GEQ you would be cutting more that half the power delivered to the speaker over a two octave range.

OTOH if you used a single filter on say a Sabine, DBX or Peavey FBX by the same amount you would get 90% of that back.
Are you suggesting that these boxes are 'better' than a good engineer at preventing feedback?
Old 10th March 2014
  #35
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Well there's a lot that a good engineer can do before hand to prevent feedback ... mic selection, speaker placement, aiming, etc. But once that is done a good Feedback Manager is much faster at eliminating feedback should it occur and will most times do it with a much smaller effect on overall sound quality that it is possible for a human to do.

They also use a tool with much more accuracy than it is possible to dial in simply by ear.
Old 10th March 2014
  #36
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Electrolytic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dboomer View Post
Well there's a lot that a good engineer can do before hand to prevent feedback ... mic selection, speaker placement, aiming, etc. But once that is done a good Feedback Manager is much faster at eliminating feedback should it occur and will most times do it with a much smaller effect on overall sound quality that it is possible for a human to do.

They also use a tool with much more accuracy than it is possible to dial in simply by ear.
you should have just said they make finer more efficient cuts over a 31GEQ due to the tight 'Q' of parametrics.

Behringer need to make a small form factor multiband parametric.
Old 10th March 2014
  #37
Gear Nut
 

The irony...The band does not want to pay an engineer to do the work and they want professional engineers to tell them the best way to get out of not paying an engineer...for free!__________________Sam
Ummm I though this site was for advise???
The band has an engineer in it. Me. I mix bands and I use eqs. But with my own pa. So i dont get onto other systems often. Which is why i dont understand fbd's. I share my experience with others on here. For free. Am I not allowed to ask advise from others?
Also can anyone tell me how to reply to others comments properly. I can't work it out.
Old 10th March 2014
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dboomer View Post
Well there's a lot that a good engineer can do before hand to prevent feedback ... mic selection, speaker placement, aiming, etc. But once that is done a good Feedback Manager is much faster at eliminating feedback should it occur and will most times do it with a much smaller effect on overall sound quality that it is possible for a human to do.
A good engineer can prevent feedback from occurring in the first place, something this box can't do. A good engineer can detect the onset of feedback and prevent it from happening...

Most gigs with good engineers don't have feedback problems and hence don't need feedback eliminators.
Old 10th March 2014
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Animal2612 View Post
Ummm I though this site was for advise???
The band has an engineer in it. Me. I mix bands and I use eqs. But with my own pa. So i dont get onto other systems often. Which is why i dont understand fbd's. I share my experience with others on here. For free. Am I not allowed to ask advise from others?
You have clearly missed the point...but yes, one of the reason the forum exist is for free sharing of ideas and opinions. Now you know how this whole opinion thing works...especially on a public forum.

You say the band has an engineer (you)...but in a previous post you described yourself as the drummer...the only band member who knows how to setup the PA for loud gigs in a small venue.

You say you need a feedback destroyer for those times when you can't setup the PA and as a result there is feedback. Who or what finishes the mix when that happens? Just curious.
Old 10th March 2014
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrolytic View Post
you should have just said they make finer more efficient cuts over a 31GEQ due to the tight 'Q' of parametrics.
I don't care how narrow they can cut...I'm efficient at preventing feedback. Can't tell the last time I experienced one while mixing.
Old 10th March 2014
  #41
Registered User
 

Quote:
Some people haven't read the whole OP posts - Animal is the drummer in the band and also sets up their own PA, and gets a mix happening - albeit slightly rough as he can't manipulate the mix at all once they're playing.

The ideal solution would be to have an engineer mix every gig. This is not possible due to the length of time which the band plays and also the budget constraints to actually pay an engineer that is bothered to hang around 'on their own' behind a desk for 5-6hrs, only to then enjoy the efforts of packing all the gear up at until about 2:00am in the morning.
This is an internet forum. If someone asks how to get from A to B it is our job to tell them that D is a much better destination, in which case they would be better off starting from C.

Quote:
My only experience is with the Behringer units, they were so useless it was sickening. They couldn't "catch" a ringing frequency until it was very very loud. I threw all 3 of them in the trash but kept the power cords as it was the only useful part of the whole unit.
Did you try adjusting the sensitivity before you threw them away? Also they work quite well as a manual parametric eq.

Quote:
The irony...

The band does not want to pay an engineer to do the work and they want professional engineers to tell them the best way to get out of not paying an engineer...for free!
This is an internet forum people expect instant, concise, accurate and relevant answers from hopefully knowledgeable people, whether their original question make sense or not.

However in this case, throwing in some random numbers…..

Say it takes 3 years for the feedback destroyer to stop working, or the band splits up or they decide to upgrade their system. If they do just 10 gigs a year (not a lot) that is 30 gigs in total. Do you know anyone who can do a half decent mix and only charge $17 a gig?

Quote:
If you want to give it a go, I can post you a FBQ100.
All other replies, including mine, are superfluous.
Old 10th March 2014
  #42
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Electrolytic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
I don't care how narrow they can cut...I'm efficient at preventing feedback. Can't tell the last time I experienced one while mixing.
well thats the point when your using 31 bolted down butter knives to cut steak and the machines are using Lasers. you simply aren't making as efficient cuts.
Old 10th March 2014
  #43
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That is always the point….never have feedback (regardless what you use), the box with lasers is just a crutch used by some people to eliminate feedback that they should have prevented in the first place.

Hope this helps.
Old 10th March 2014
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_B View Post
This is an internet forum people expect instant, concise, accurate and relevant answers from hopefully knowledgeable people, whether their original question make sense or not.
An alternate view…

This is an internet forum where many people try to short-circuit the learning process by demanding instant, answers from anybody who cares to offer a (likable) response, whether their original question make sense or not. Some are just seeking popular approval for decisions they have already made…in either case responses that suggest or require further research/learning, more thought and/or work are usually rejected out of hand even when accepted as the best solution.
Old 10th March 2014
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_B View Post
This is an internet forum. If someone asks how to get from A to B it is our job to tell them that D is a much better destination, in which case they would be better off starting from C.
Or to ask what they're trying to achieve by going to B, what form of transport they have available, what their experience in traveling is and so on.
Old 10th March 2014
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
A good engineer can prevent feedback from occurring in the first place, something this box can't do. A good engineer can detect the onset of feedback and prevent it from happening...

Most gigs with good engineers don't have feedback problems and hence don't need feedback eliminators.
A good set of human ears can only detect feedback way after it can be detected by computers ... sorry John Henry.
Old 10th March 2014
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by museAV View Post
Or to ask what they're trying to achieve by going to B, what form of transport they have available, what their experience in traveling is and so on.
Obviously you're going too far now…do you want to answer my question or keep getting into unrelated areas?

I just want to know if I should use regular unleaded or super to go from A to B
Old 10th March 2014
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
That is always the point….never have feedback (regardless what you use), the box with lasers is just a crutch used by some people to eliminate feedback that they should have prevented in the first place.

Hope this helps.
I've never crashed a car ... but I do wear a seatbelt.
Old 10th March 2014
  #49
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JohnRoberts's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dboomer View Post
I've never crashed a car ... but I do wear a seatbelt.
I have crashed my car and my shoulder harness kept me out of the air bag... I do believe in buckling up, and I'm old enough to remember when seat belts were DIY aftermarket add-ons.

Sam is very proud of his ability to avoid feedback without cybernetic help.

Some users benefit from the modern technology, some don't. These magic feedback gizmos wouldn't exist if there wasn't market demand for them.

JR
Old 10th March 2014
  #50
Gear Maniac
 
saggsy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Animal2612 View Post
The irony...The band does not want to pay an engineer to do the work and they want professional engineers to tell them the best way to get out of not paying an engineer...for free!__________________Sam
Ummm I though this site was for advise???
The band has an engineer in it. Me. I mix bands and I use eqs. But with my own pa. So i dont get onto other systems often. Which is why i dont understand fbd's. I share my experience with others on here. For free. Am I not allowed to ask advise from others?
Also can anyone tell me how to reply to others comments properly. I can't work it out.
This thread is a prime example of the OP not being clear and concise in the first post, then waiting for a few confusing answers to be added, then trying to clarify with additional information in a later post. As most people on this forum do not read entire threads before posting its a recipe for a messy thread.

My free advice here - stop this thread now.

Oh and to quote someone's text - you need to press the quote button in the post in which they said what you want to quote - then you are presented with a 'post' box and you can decide weather to start entering your text above or below the quote.

saggsy
Old 10th March 2014
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
Obviously you're going too far now…do you want to answer my question or keep getting into unrelated areas?

I just want to know if I should use regular unleaded or super to go from A to B
I use diesel so that's what I suggest everyone should use.
Old 10th March 2014
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRoberts View Post
I have crashed my car and my shoulder harness kept me out of the air bag... I do believe in buckling up, and I'm old enough to remember when seat belts were DIY aftermarket add-ons.

Sam is very proud of his ability to avoid feedback without cybernetic help.

Some users benefit from the modern technology, some don't. These magic feedback gizmos wouldn't exist if there wasn't market demand for them
For the past fifteen years or more I have not seen or used a system with one of those boxes connected to it. I just assumed that preventing feedback was a non issue because it is so easy and less obstructive than depending on one of these boxes to kill the feedback after the fact.

Clearly, some people think they need to use them which is unfortunate since there is a 'better' solution.
Old 10th March 2014
  #53
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Electrolytic's Avatar
 

humorous thread has been humorous
Old 10th March 2014
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dboomer View Post
I've never crashed a car ... but I do wear a seatbelt.
I'm sure that if one (or more) squeals did escape my vigilance it probably won't kill anyone. I'm also pretty sure that there is less chance of a squeal escaping than most people (who drive regularly) having an accident.

Just curious but do you recommend one feedback killer on every microphone input or across the main stereo out only?
Old 10th March 2014
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by museAV View Post
I use diesel so that's what I suggest everyone should use.
But I asked about regular unleaded and super.......Diesel makes my engine act strange for some reason.
Old 10th March 2014
  #56
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JohnRoberts's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
But I asked about regular unleaded and super.......Diesel makes my engine act strange for some reason.
Don't get me started on ethanol...

JR

PS: If you not being sarcastic, feedback abatement should be applied per mic IMO, while simpler is generally better (good boxes, good mics, proper placement, etc). When will the last muso change to IEMs?
Old 11th March 2014
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dboomer View Post
Those ADF's are like from about 1997, right? heh
They are truly horrid and I have two for $99 EA. I would have parted with them for $500. But, I have a conscience.
Old 11th March 2014
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASCMe View Post
They are truly horrid and I have two for $99 EA. I would have parted with them for $500. But, I have a conscience.
So what exactly makes them "horrid"?
Old 11th March 2014
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRoberts View Post
If you not being sarcastic, feedback abatement should be applied per mic IMO, while simpler is generally better (good boxes, good mics, proper placement, etc). When will the last muso change to IEMs?
I was being sarcastic and yes, feedback prevention and "abatement" should be applied per mic. That would be the most efficient and least destructive method.

That would be a lot of little boxes for some bands though...luckily there are enough good engineers around.
Old 12th March 2014
  #60
270182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dboomer View Post
So what exactly makes them "horrid"?
. The noise and the interface.
Topic:
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