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16-24ch digital mixer suggestions ??
Old 18th October 2013
  #1
Gear Head
 

16-24ch digital mixer suggestions ??

Noob here but I've been lurking and trying to read up before posting.

I am looking to buy a digital mixer for my 4-5pc weekend warrior band so that we don't have to rely on crappy house PA or like last gig, useless student sound men who can't deliver monitor sound let along find the stage light switch!
Mackie DL1608 grabbed my attention due to the Ipad control and promise that we could adjust monitor mixes ourselves during a show. I always have my Ipad on a gigeasy mic stand mount for set list etc. anyway so perfect. We also have usually someone that could tweak FOH faders during a set in a pinch using a second ipad/iphone.

Since discovering the Mackie I've discovered the much anticipated iX16 and also the X32 compact as potential options for us in the <$2k range.
I'm interested in finding out what would be the best for us overall. I'm starting to think the X32 compact but am open to suggestions.

What we need...
Ipad remote control (2 places, stage and FOH)
Inputs:12-16
4 separate monitor mixes preferably stereo for IEM
Most will be mono wedges for the time being with 1 moving to IEMs.

Recording is not really a concern, this is for live shows primarily.

From reading it seems like the X32 can output stereo monitor mix for the IEM is that correct? It seems the Mackie DL-1608 can't.

What I don't really get yet is with the x32 do I need the S16 snake and/or the P16-M? Can I send my IEM and other mixes direct from the X32 and mix them through the Ipad app rather than using P16-M?

TIA.
Old 18th October 2013
  #2
Lives for gear
I think the DL1608 can link outputs/auxes for stereo IEMs now with version2.

With the x32, you don't need to use the P16M, you can output a stereo aux to your transmitters or packs just like you would any other console. The benefit of the P16M is that each person can control their own mix, but I suppose if you can do that from the ipad there's no point in buying more stuff
Old 19th October 2013
  #3
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jhana View Post
I think the DL1608 can link outputs/auxes for stereo IEMs now with version2.
Wouldn't that mean though the DL1608 with 6 aux becomes 3?
Is it the same boat for x32 then, 8 aux outputs becomes 4 stereo outputs?

I know the P16-M has stereo out to IEMs so I can pan channels etc which is what I would be trying to do here.
Having only 3-4 stereo mixes could be limiting though as we add a couple band members or guests etc especially as more of our guys spring for IEMs.
The way I read it is with the Mackie, I'm stuck with 6 mono outs or 3 stereo but with Behr I could do 4 stereo off the board but always go to a P16D and 8 P16Ms (or more if ever it was needed).
Old 19th October 2013
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
will_gates00000's Avatar
 

Haven't used it myself but the whole x32 range is great bang for the buck.

Also take a look at the soundcraft expression boards. They sound incredible and they have a 16 channel for around $2.5k
Old 19th October 2013
  #5
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hbphotoav's Avatar
 

Three years on a PreSonus SL 24.4.2 here. With a computer (MBP) and a router (AirPort Extreme) I have full iPad mix control both at FOH and onstage, and can provide up to 10 individually controllable mono IEM mixes or wedge mixes (or 5 stereo IEM), also controllable by individual player's iPad or iPhone. It's been relatively reliable (one repair issue regarding phantom power supply on four channels... not a major fail, but a PITA until I could send it off for repair) and certainly flexible (singer-songwriter nights through all things corporate to a annual day-long outdoor music festival with 12 acts and a new major-label headliner this year). Being smaller, lighter, and not needing the 38 rackspaces of outboard EQ, dynamics, gating and redundant power supplies of my Soundcraft Series TWO... it has been a blessing. And the UI is a lot easier and quicker learn for a old analog guy (first system I used in the early '70s was a Shure VocalMaster) than the LS9, M7CL, O1V96, Midas Pro2C and Soundcraft Si I've worked on over the past three years.

With the onset of the new ai series, pricing on the original SL line has dropped and there are more used SLs available... I'll likely stay with mine until I have need of the additional features and/or higher track count of the 32ai.

HB
Old 19th October 2013
  #6
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mixer mixer's Avatar
Check out the Soundcraft Si Expression 1, it does your 4 stereo and more monitor mixes and there will be a new version of the iPad control app coming soon, as teased by Soundcraft.

IMO it beats X32 if you have no use for DCA's, user assignable keys, etc. because the Si Expression has "one button, one function".

Also, if you need more channels, buy the mini stagebox and theoretically it can support up to 66(!) channels.
Old 19th October 2013
  #7
Gear Maniac
 

AMS has the Presonus mixer onsale (rebate), because a newer version has come out. It's the only one I've seen up close. I just wanted to let you know, incase you were gonna get something soon and leaned towards it.
Old 19th October 2013
  #8
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hbphotoav's Avatar
 

A further note to the OP... you can leverage your IEM move with a Behringer (did I really say that?) HA8000 to drive buds through a wire for anyone not wanting to pop for a RF system. We've been using one for about 7 years at the HOW where I mix regularly, and oversee the audio end of things.

Only problem is the level pots and mono/stereo switches crackling after a couple of years if they're not exercised regularly. Other than that, it has been rock solid.

For the past three years we've been on a SL 24.4.2 for 8 ears mixes, all controlled by iPads (church owns 3) or iPhones (most of the playas have them). The backline is on wired drops at their positions (E Gtr Lead, Keys, Bass, Drums) with the frontline on 4xSennheiser EM300G2 RF packs. Before that, all were on the HA8000 driven by the auxes from a A&H GL3800 and mixed from FOH.

We're currently gearing up for a remote campus with another HA8000 and a repurposed GL2800/24x8x2 at the outset. If we can function long-term with 32 channels or fewer (the GL3800 was a 40-channel desk, and our current M7 is 48) we'll likely drop either a SL24.4.2 or a SL 32.4.2ai, depending on budget, as soon as possible, to get back on remote aux controls.

HB
Old 19th October 2013
  #9
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loujudson's Avatar
Allen and Heath Qu-16. 5 stereo auxes, and better control than the other in MY book. I own the Presonus, the Mackie, and the Q and the Q wins every time.

I use the Presonus 24-4-2 fpor multitrack 24 channel recording, and the Mackie where I need no snake, and the Q when I want best sound and fast work.
Old 24th October 2013
  #10
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
Allen and Heath Qu-16. 5 stereo auxes, and better control than the other in MY book. I own the Presonus, the Mackie, and the Q and the Q wins every time.

I use the Presonus 24-4-2 fpor multitrack 24 channel recording, and the Mackie where I need no snake, and the Q when I want best sound and fast work.
Looked at the A&H but it's a bit out of the budget when the x32 Comp is 1600'ish plus extra ins.
Back to the x32 for a second, see if I get this straight...
I can run up to 4 stereo mixes out of the x32 directly... PLUS...
If I need to expand I could use a P16D and run up to another 8 unique stereo mixes but I need each guy to use their own P16M?
I note the P16D has 16 inputs, I'm assuming that is all coming through the CAT5 and that obviously I must assign all inputs I wish to mix to those 16 channels.

One assumption here is that I can use the board auxes as well as the P16D/M rig?
Old 24th October 2013
  #11
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hbphotoav View Post
A further note to the OP... you can leverage your IEM move with a Behringer (did I really say that?) HA8000 to drive buds through a wire for anyone not wanting to pop for a RF system. We've been using one for about 7 years at the HOW where I mix regularly, and oversee the audio end of things.
HB
Is the HA8000 just an amplifier? I would just use it to connect the stereo Aux to the IEM's correct?
Does it have any limiter function?
Old 1st November 2013
  #12
Gear Maniac
 

X32 Compact for $1700, X32 for $2400, maybe one of the Soundcraft.
Old 1st November 2013
  #13
Lives for gear
 

Lou Judson is speaking real truth to you and the validity of his opinion will be found in PLUGING UP the QU16 WITH YOUR BAND AND CHECKING OUT THE SOUND FOR YOURSELF. I also have a SL 24 but the Qu16 real world features and sonic quality offer much more than one would expect from a mid 2K digital desk. Audition all of the subject boards with your band and buy the one that does the best job for you.
Old 1st November 2013
  #14
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loujudson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hughshouse View Post
Lou Judson is speaking real truth to you and the validity of his opinion will be found in PLUGGING UP the QU16 WITH YOUR BAND AND CHECKING OUT THE SOUND FOR YOURSELF. I also have a SL 24 but the Qu16 real world features and sonic quality offer much more than one would expect from a mid 2K digital desk. Audition all of the subject boards with your band and buy the one that does the best job for you.
Thanks Hugh for the validation. MY dilemma is, this past Summer I had a problem upgrading the firmware on Presonus (which they made good on in spades with a replacement) and got the Mackie DL1608 in the meantime, liked it, but HAD to have the Qu as it is much more what I like in terms of operation and sound.

Now I have all three and can't let any one go... Each has its uses.

For sure, try them out and find the one thet fits YOUR needs!

<L>
Old 16th November 2013
  #15
Gear Nut
I too am looking for a new board for a similar application.

I was looking at the Presonus AI boards, but then started looking at the X32, QU-16, and Si boards.

I just noticed a price drop on the Soundcraft Si 3 at Sweetwater ($2999.00).

Wow.... tough decisions.
Old 16th November 2013
  #16
Lives for gear
 
lynngraber's Avatar
Happy x32 Compact user here. I bought it to use mainly with my band, but it will be my live recording setup as soon as I get a pair of s16's.

We have live inputs (drums, guitars, vocals) as well as some tracks and live keyboards through Ableton Live. 16 mic inputs are perfect, as the Ableton inputs are sent to 17-32 via Firewire. We monitor via 4x stereo wireless in ears on xlr outs. Aux outs go to mains.

It's a really clean and reliable setup. Mixer sits on stage. FOH is mixed with iPad, monitors are mixed with our iphones.
Old 17th November 2013
  #17
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by grimaila View Post
I too am looking for a new board for a similar application.

I was looking at the Presonus AI boards, but then started looking at the X32, QU-16, and Si boards.

I just noticed a price drop on the Soundcraft Si 3 at Sweetwater ($2999.00).

Wow.... tough decisions.
I went with X32 Rack in the end over the compact.
Taking a leap of faith not having physical faders but the reality is like previous poster, FOH for small gigs will be via Ipad wifi anyway and the rack in a small rolling SKB case is a nice slick package.

Now back to work soldering up XLR cables ...
Old 17th November 2013
  #18
Gear Maniac
 

If you ever want faders for your rack, you can use A BCF2000 to command X32-edit, works very well.
Attached Thumbnails
16-24ch digital mixer suggestions ??-2013-11-14-18.45.39.jpg  
Old 19th November 2013
  #19
Here for the gear
 
doDAW's Avatar
 

Presonus StudioLive ai. (Yes)

24bit - 48k live or recording Both!
Smaart Real time analyzer on deck in software. (See feedback freq on stage) Amazing sound!
Old 24th May 2014
  #20
Gear Head
 

Hi guys! I'm looking to these items too...i'm really attract from mackie dl1608
It's the right price (less then 1000), perfect in and out 16/6, it's compact, i could work with ipad....
Inside FX
The only thing it's that you can only record master L R
Have you ever experiment some issue live?

Do you know something egual but with the possibility of 16 tracks recording?
I've focusrite 18i20 and behringer ada8000, so i could consider some firewire device or analog with direct out or firewire (but with FX)
Regards, filo
Old 24th May 2014
  #21
Lives for gear
 
hbphotoav's Avatar
 

You should be able to find a used 1st gen PreSonus SL16.4.2 at around $1K-$1200. 16+L/R through a rock solid interface (Capture) or direct-to-Logic (my DAW of choice) or Studio One (PreSonus's DAW), 6 auxes, lord of convenient hard-point I/O on the rear panel, and better EQ/dynamics than $3K in outboard used to provide.

I have a 16.0.2 (for small footprint auxiliary and/or breakout use in corporate, and for tracking gigs requiring more than my Apogee Ensemble's 8 inputs, but less than the SL24.4.2's 24 inputs), the aforementioned 24.4.2, and older Mackie Onyx 1604 and 1220 for backup. Also have a Soundcraft Series TWO 32x8x2x1, and an ancient Mackie SR324. All have made me money through their "active" lives, and all still have their occasional uses. The new PreSonus AI desks have some additional features... but 1st gen are not slouches, and are available for about half AI street for the similar models.

I should also mention I have a Mackie DL1608 that was part of a "all-in" system purchase about a month ago (I was after the four new Sennheiser RF systems and the pair of QSC K12s), but I haven't had need to fire it up as of yet. It's mint, and never been used. PM me if you're interested.

One old guy's opinion.

HB
Old 24th May 2014
  #22
Lives for gear
+1 for the Presonus being the EASIEST way to record all in the inputs while mixing a live show.

One alternative for the Mackie is to use the main outs as a recording mix, while the FOH mix goes out aux 1-2. This means you could throw in room mics, or drum mics that you don't want in your live mix but want to capture. You're still doing a committed recording mix on the fly so the results won't be stellar, but since we're talking about the low end of things (not hiring someone else to record with his own mics and the right gear) that was probably going to be true anyway.
Old 24th May 2014
  #23
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loujudson's Avatar
I am a big fan of the Allen & Heath Qu series, in fact just sold my Presonus 24 so I could get a Qu-24, which makes it MUCH easier to record - USB drive tigh off the board, or to computer, or both. The Qu series are the mixers I've been waiting for for quite a while. Makes stellar recordings right in the box!
Old 24th May 2014
  #24
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Wyllys's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by M4-10 View Post
+1 for the Presonus being the EASIEST way to record all in the inputs while mixing a live performance.
This was likely the case until the Qu series came on the market. Now it's the A&H which is the easiest, most flexible and versatile of the small consoles.
Old 24th May 2014
  #25
Gear Head
 

But it's more expensive and it seems to be less clear in live use in my opinion
Old 24th May 2014
  #26
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loujudson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by filo View Post
But it's more expensive and it seems to be less clear in live use in my opinion
Worth it! Read the manual, it is really easy if you apply yourself to learning it. I know, I have had both.
http://www.allen-heath.com/media/Qu-...e-AP9372_1.pdf
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Qu-Mixer-User-Guide-V1.4.pdf (8.06 MB, 329 views)
Old 24th May 2014
  #27
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Wyllys's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by filo View Post
But it's more expensive and it seems to be less clear in live use in my opinion
I've owned and used both, and in my experience (not opinion) the SLive is not anywhere near the mixer that the Qu is. Add to that the absolute inferiority of the faders used in the Presonus (massive failure rates) and selling the SLive desks I had was a no-brainer.

Given the same operator with experience on each desk, I'll bet that 9 out of 10 will take something other than the SLive. The only thing I still like about it is the downward expansion.
Old 24th May 2014
  #28
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loujudson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyllys View Post
I've owned and used both, and in my experience (not opinion) the SLive is not anywhere near the mixer that the Qu is. Add to that the absolute inferiority of the faders used in the Presonus (massive failure rates) and selling the SLive desks I had was a no-brainer.

Given the same operator with experience on each desk, I'll bet that 9 out of 10 will take something other than the SLive. The only thing I still like about it is the downward expansion.
I had an ironic experience with my SL24-4-2. Doing a firmware upgrade the night before a gig, it catatropically failed - all faders inoperable and gain wide open! I had to take my entire analog rig for a daylong street party. They fixed it at the factory, and when it came back, one of those faders had a tiny catch in it, enough for me to complain. They said send it backl, and we'll put the new sealed faders in for you, no charge. Great service from Presonus!

However, while it was going back and forth the Qu-16 came out, I bought one and never used the Presonus again. Its new owner is very happy with it, though, with the new faders and all. So now I have a Qu-16 and a Qu-24. Happy camper! :-)
Old 24th May 2014
  #29
Gear Head
 

Thanks for sharing you experience...
Other devices under 1000?
Old 24th May 2014
  #30
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loujudson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by filo View Post
Thanks for sharing you experience...
Other devices under 1000?
Under 1k? Not a lot of really pro mixers, but lotsa Mackies, Yamahas. and the like.

Watch this space, though:
TouchMix-16 Compact Digital Mixer
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