The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 All  This Thread  Reviews  Gear Database  Gear for sale     Latest  Trending
No sound for rehearsals?
Old 14th October 2013
  #1
Gear Nut
 
credentialed's Avatar
 

No sound for rehearsals?

I am a relatively new member at a rather large church that I've been attending for almost two years. I joined the media ministry as one of the audio engineers about a year and a half ago, which is a position I held at my significantly smaller in size former church. It's a bigger setup than I was used to, but I've adjusted. Recently, I started attending rehearsals and was shocked the sound was not turned on for rehearsals. So I turned it on. In fact, I told them whenever I am available I would come to all rehearsals to make sure the system is on. Rehearsals consist of most choir members for all the choirs, but not the full band. Only the organist. (The full band is a drummer, organist, keyboardist, bassist, pianist, lead guitar and percussionist). The singers and the organist are appreciative. After a month, the other audio engineer approaches me and advises me that I've opened a can of worms by turning on the sound for them. His logic is if there is no full band, there should be no sound. Additionally, he tells me they don't NEED sound, as they don't need to hear themselves or each other. "Learn your notes" is his attitude. He has told them not to expect sound anymore, even though he does not have the authority to make that decision. I have taken this up the "chain of command" as I disagree. Even in my former church, which is infinitely smaller than where I'm at now, where I was the only musician at the rehearsal (organist), I turned on the sound for the singers. In fact, I have never had a rehearsal of any kind without the mics on. He also uses the terms sound check and rehearsals interchangeably, which I also disagree with. My questions are, is he making any sense? How do you guys/girls handle rehearsal with just the singers and one musician? Sound or not? Sorry to be so long winded but this is bothering me, to the point where I didn't get a good night's sleep last night...
Old 14th October 2013
  #2
Lives for gear
 

Sounds like drama to me. Personally, I don't like heavy drama in anything. I can deal with a little but not a lot.

For what its worth, I don't use my sound system when I rehearse but I'm just a Solo Acoustic act. When I used to play in bands back in the day we always used our entire system but we where a loud Rock band so we needed it to hear the vocals at the least.
Old 14th October 2013
  #3
Gear Addict
 
ckreon's Avatar
 

This is the kind of thing that gives church audio people their stereotype. That, and they typically have no idea what they're doing (as demonstrated by your friend here).

If an engineer tried to pull that in any other setting (i.e. not at church), he would be fired.

What is it with churches harboring the same behavior of middle schools....
Old 14th October 2013
  #4
Gear Addict
 

I could understand if it was a small group of vocalist's who were able to stand in a tight group and work on harmonys but other wise no. Rehearsals WITH the system going also allows the sound man to confirm or fine tune EQ settings, monitor placement, mic placement, etc......................... Those folks need to know what they sound like in the system, it's different than an acoustic performance and they need to hear it first hand.
Especially if the system is an install, really.............why not turn it on?
Old 14th October 2013
  #5

If the choirs are only mic'd with overheads, I'd concede that your counterpart has a point...

But, to deny a sound system when the choir director is obviously alright with it is ludicrous.



-tINY

Old 14th October 2013
  #6
Here for the gear
 

I have done work for my church and others since I was 14 yrs. old and I am now a recent grad. student that majored in audio production, aside from "quick night practice", I have never heard of an engineer discouraging the worship team from wiring up during a rehearsal. I do not want to point fingers but resident engineers tend to become a little lazy after they feel comfortable with how things run and operate. I believe it is essential to practice the same way you play. I know that sometimes the full band is not able to attend rehearsals but the vocalists still need to be miked one way or the other. This is key to keeping consistency through performances every week. It also allows you as the engineer to work out any issues that may arrive and trouble-shoot these problems before showtime. As I'm sure your aware of in the industry of Live Sound events, something is bound to go wrong or things will need amending to keep the performance seamless and transparent. Rehearsals also give you the chance of enhancing the capabilities of your worship team, such as, a vocalist overpowering another vocalist using the same mic or certain band members (like percussionists) being to loud in the mix, just some examples. You really should sit down with your head engineer and civilly discuss the matters at hand. Understand why he feels this way. He may make good points and reasons why he does this during rehearsals. You should also come prepared for expressing your concerns about the rehearsals. Let him know good reasons why you feel it needs to be this way and execute it. Quick note; If your church has other plays, events, or productions, it would be much recommended to go Live. Every time there is a new performance, volumes may change, signal paths could be rerouted and a hefty list of other variables may change your 'week-to-week' routine and flow. Just some food for thought.

Ben
Lead AV Tech, AA Rental
Old 15th October 2013
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by credentialed View Post
I am a relatively new member at a rather large church that I've been attending for almost two years. I joined the media ministry as one of the audio engineers about a year and a half ago, which is a position I held at my significantly smaller in size former church. It's a bigger setup than I was used to, but I've adjusted. Recently, I started attending rehearsals and was shocked the sound was not turned on for rehearsals. So I turned it on. In fact, I told them whenever I am available I would come to all rehearsals to make sure the system is on. Rehearsals consist of most choir members for all the choirs, but not the full band. Only the organist. (The full band is a drummer, organist, keyboardist, bassist, pianist, lead guitar and percussionist). The singers and the organist are appreciative. After a month, the other audio engineer approaches me and advises me that I've opened a can of worms by turning on the sound for them. His logic is if there is no full band, there should be no sound. Additionally, he tells me they don't NEED sound, as they don't need to hear themselves or each other. "Learn your notes" is his attitude. He has told them not to expect sound anymore, even though he does not have the authority to make that decision. I have taken this up the "chain of command" as I disagree. Even in my former church, which is infinitely smaller than where I'm at now, where I was the only musician at the rehearsal (organist), I turned on the sound for the singers. In fact, I have never had a rehearsal of any kind without the mics on. He also uses the terms sound check and rehearsals interchangeably, which I also disagree with. My questions are, is he making any sense? How do you guys/girls handle rehearsal with just the singers and one musician? Sound or not? Sorry to be so long winded but this is bothering me, to the point where I didn't get a good night's sleep last night...
To be honest rehearsal should be very quiet so you can work out parts and communicate
Old 15th October 2013
  #8
Gear Maniac
 

Quiet is not incompatible with "Sound System = ON"

In fact, a good stage set-up and monitor situation will REDUCE the overall volume of the performance, both on and off stage.

-B
Old 16th October 2013
  #9
KEL
Lives for gear
 

your typical church singer isn't used to singing on PA systems all that often. I'd allow any chance to acclimate them to the process, letting them get used to how they sound in the space with the mics on. You'll also be able to freely adjust and point out issues like poor mic technique that you can't on service day.

practice is something entirely different than rehearsal. Practice you can do at home or impromptu . rehearsal is where you put it together.
Old 16th October 2013
  #10
Gear Nut
 
credentialed's Avatar
 

Thanks to everyone for their replies. I'm happy to say that the technical director will allow sound at the rehearsals, but not for the obvious reason (the singers' benefit). He cited the fact that I had found a line that had mysteriously went dead sometime between the end of one of the past Sunday services and a rehearsal, and fixed it during the rehearsal, thereby lightening the workload and keeping the system tuned up for the next Sunday service. Ok. Nevertheless, the end result was what I was looking for.

"Sounds like drama to me." 24 I/O you're absolutely right, and really unnecessary, especially if we're supposed to be there for the same purpose: service in ministry. So much drama, in fact, that I almost posted this in the moan zone before deciding to come here.

"To be honest rehearsal should be very quiet so you can work out parts and communicate " RightOnRome, I'm not sure I understand this, as loudness/quietness is so subjective. Can you clarify further?

"If an engineer tried to pull that in any other setting (i.e. not at church), he would be fired." ckreon I agree wholeheartedly. I straight up asked him if Beyonce wanted sound on for the singer's and one musician, you're gonna tell her no?
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump