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Midas/Behringer X32
Old 18th February 2013
  #1
Midas/Behringer X32

I saw and heard this console tonight and was impressed. Anybody using this? Would like to know what you think. Didn't have a chance to actually hear the effects, EQ, or compression. Just ran some pre-recorded stuff through with qsc arrays. I have a feeling that this might be just above the sound quality of the Presonus Studio live series boards, and I really like the feel and functionality...almost sold!

Sent from my DROID RAZR
Old 18th February 2013
  #2
Lives for gear
 
BradLyons's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitfiddle View Post
I saw and heard this console tonight and was impressed. Anybody using this? Would like to know what you think. Didn't have a chance to actually hear the effects, EQ, or compression. Just ran some pre-recorded stuff through with qsc arrays. I have a feeling that this might be just above the sound quality of the Presonus Studio live series boards, and I really like the feel and functionality...almost sold!

Sent from my DROID RAZR
There's already a few threads of the X32 v/s Studiolive and I'm sure there will be many more :-) As to sound quality between the two---both are very good, but that is also subjective. I work with these consoles daily, have them side by side, and have had some say the Presonus sounds better hands down and others say the Behringer. But what it comes down to is the feature set---what features do you need for your system? It's amazing how two consoles that are so similar are also so different can be radically different products for certain users. I just finished (2) house of worship designs last week where one church purchased the X32, it was PERFECT for their installation needs.....the other church, the Studiolive24 was perfect for their needs. Every user is different, depending upon what you need to do and how you need to operate---you don't choose the console, it chooses you.
Old 18th February 2013
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

Do some searching, but I also imagine every Midas engineer is rolling in their... current location... over putting Midas/Behringer :D

Midas had about as much to do with that console as bugatti had to do with the new bug.
Old 18th February 2013
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Aisle 6's Avatar
A reseller asked me to try one out and report back to them when it first hit and although I did not check out all it's features, I had it running at the gig very quickly and it did the job it was designed to do with little fuss. I thought that it sounded pretty good.
I have a few digital consoles and this one is not for me, but I would happily use one.
Old 18th February 2013
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
Bratwurst's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitfiddle View Post
I saw and heard this console tonight and was impressed. Anybody using this? Would like to know what you think. Didn't have a chance to actually hear the effects, EQ, or compression. Just ran some pre-recorded stuff through with qsc arrays. I have a feeling that this might be just above the sound quality of the Presonus Studio live series boards, and I really like the feel and functionality...almost sold!

Sent from my DROID RAZR
Any specific questions? I do have a X32+S16+P16M setup and did also some shows with it...so "I know" at least a little about it
Old 19th February 2013
  #6
Gear Nut
 

X32

Hi Guys,

If I can help with any X32 questions, please let me know.

With over 20,000 units, the X32 has become the world’s best-selling digital console, as well as being the number 1 selling digital console at Guitar Center stores.

Best regards,
Joe Sanborn
Manager, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
Old 19th February 2013
  #7
Gear Nut
 
Lazerface's Avatar
Joe,

Is there any plans for the PC control app to possibly support fader control from a BCF-2000? This would make the new rackmount editions of the X32 much more appealing to me and a few other clients I spec gear for. I'd be willing to leave an X32 rack on stage, but I'd still need physical faders to mix FOH. This is similar to how SAC users control their own rigs currently.

If this isn't being planned yet.... Feature Request!
Old 19th February 2013
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Cover'd's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Sanborn View Post
If I can help with any X32 questions, please let me know.

With over 20,000 units, the X32 has become the world’s best-selling digital console, as well as being the number 1 selling digital console at Guitar Center stores.
Hi Joe

Thanks for chiming in

One question I have is how do Behringer plan on addressing the existing reputation of somewhat shaky reliability? I'm not stirring the pot or trying to be an arse here, it's a genuine question and I wonder if it is something which you guys are aware of and discuss internally..?

From personal experience, I've had good and bad Behringer kit - the one thing that stops me getting an X32 is that I don't have the confidence in what would be such a critical part of the set up. It's feature set is great, no question of that, but previous experience, coupled with what appears to be a worldwide perception of reliability in relation to Behringer products, stops me pulling the trigger

It may well be the best-selling - bang for buck clearly explains why - but the possibility of having your bucks going bang when you really don't need them to is something which I'm sure many others would agree is the biggest challenge for Behringer to overcome now
Old 19th February 2013
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Andy Hamm's Avatar
 

I've already run into an issue with the x32. If someone impedes a fader flip, either unintentionally or by fighting the motorized movement, the bands pop off. When you loose one of the channel faders, you effectively loose two channels. It's bigger trouble if it is one of the DCA matrix aux faders though.

You have to open up the console and slip the band back on, which isn't something you will be wanting to do at a show. Note that the force required to pop a band isn't excessive, and it can be done by mistake quite easily. This has happened twice at a Soundcos that I freelance at within a two week period.

Other that that, I like the console. My only other gripe is that you can't make the pc app full screen or resize it. It's kind of an odd size, and that needs to be fixed.
Old 19th February 2013
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
lupanar's Avatar
They already sell so much x32 (and other stuff) do they really have a problem with what is in "pro" mind? Plus they reach the high end market with midas now. I wonder if they will try to be in between like Ilive Yamaha Digico?
Thread about X32 so my position now is buy one if you use it yourself and don't need to rent or babysit.
Old 20th February 2013
  #11
Gear Nut
 

X32

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cover'd View Post
Hi Joe

Thanks for chiming in

One question I have is how do Behringer plan on addressing the existing reputation of somewhat shaky reliability? I'm not stirring the pot or trying to be an arse here, it's a genuine question and I wonder if it is something which you guys are aware of and discuss internally..?

From personal experience, I've had good and bad Behringer kit - the one thing that stops me getting an X32 is that I don't have the confidence in what would be such a critical part of the set up. It's feature set is great, no question of that, but previous experience, coupled with what appears to be a worldwide perception of reliability in relation to Behringer products, stops me pulling the trigger

It may well be the best-selling - bang for buck clearly explains why - but the possibility of having your bucks going bang when you really don't need them to is something which I'm sure many others would agree is the biggest challenge for Behringer to overcome now
Hi,

Apologies for this long thread. I wanted to clear up a few misconceptions about the X32 and our company that you bring up in your post.

The X32 has been engineered around the best and latest components. We’re using some of the best Analog Device DSP’s and Cirrus Logic AD/DA converters as well as Mabuchi motors which you also find in Penny & Giles faders.

We Build Our Products in Our Own Factory
The X32 is made by us, in our factory, using parts that we purchase directly from the component manufacturers. Now the difference between building it ourselves and having it made by a third party contract manufacturer may seem trivial to some, but let me assure you that reality is much different. When we build a product we control quality and we control cost; and those two factors constitute real, tangible value.

I cannot speak for any of our competitors but somehow I think they would all like to enjoy the benefits of manufacturing their own products, if they could. When we build an X32 we put it through hundreds of tests before it ships. We test the parts as they come in the door, we test the subassemblies, we test the assembled units and we keep meticulous logs of every circuit board and how it fared through testing. We would never consider putting such critical tests in the hands of others, no matter who the contract manufacturer may be.

3-Year Warranty Program
When you purchase and register your X32 (or any other BEHRINGER product) you participate in a full 3-Year Warranty Program and we will stand behind you and your X32. Not only are we here to support you in the event of an issue, but as you can see our Care and Product Specialist teams have been proactively engaging users on forums, Facebook, Twitter and everywhere else that you communicate to make your experience truly exceptional.

We Have Invested in CARE Centers in the US and UK
We have invested in two highly sophisticated CARE centers in Las Vegas and Kidderminster, UK which serve as service centers and spare part depots. If you find time, we would like to invite you and we will be more than happy to tour you around. We have learned from our previous experiences and made Service and Spare Parts a core focus. While we are not perfect, I hope you have seen over the past months that we have made great progress and we are determined to offer the very best customer support in the industry. Check out more details on our CARE centers here:
MUSIC Group Aims for Best in Class CARE Operations - Behringer News

Why Some “Defects” are Not Defects
With the X32 we put unprecedented value and functionality into the hands of customers which often come from the analog world. While the mixer has a very intuitive workflow and short learning curve, it is expected that there is some form of learning required, especially as we offer the functionality of high-end digital consoles for a fraction of our competitors’ prices. As a consequence, we sometimes receive defect reports that are traced to user errors and simple misunderstandings, while the console is in perfect condition. Upon explanation, the issue is quickly resolved, but in reality the unit was never defective.

We have also received a few consoles where customers complain about defective faders or broken pot knobs. On inspection we have found liquid that was spilled into the faders, broken encoders where the shafts have been sheared off and other damage that is clearly caused by improper handling, impact and that age-old issue of spilled drinks in the bar. Of course such defects are not caused by us as a manufacturer.

We have also seen posts in forums where a customer will complain about defects and when we follow up, we get no response or feedback about serial numbers. Sadly we have now a strong suspicion that some of our competitors post “fake” messages to cause uncertainty. This is disappointing as we believe companies should compete on the merits of their products and service, not with deceitful practices.

How Do We Test Our Products?
This brings us to the central element here – how do we test the units at the factory to ensure they leave in perfect condition? Coincidentally, we have been working on a video that follows the whole manufacturing process behind the X32 so that users can see how their consoles are made. It is fascinating to watch the whole process, as this is the most advanced and thoroughly-tested product we have ever made under the BEHRINGER brand.

Not surprisingly, the very same manufacturing equipment, processes and quality assurance methods as used on MIDAS products are also applied to the X32. In fact some of our most senior MIDAS UK engineers have relocated to our factory in order to best supervise the build and test processes not only of MIDAS consoles but the X32 as well. The team doesn’t get much more experienced or capable than this and I am extremely proud of their work. I have posted a clip from the QA process here:
X32 Production Testing - YouTube

What you don’t see in this video is the work that takes place before final assembly testing. Each component that goes into an X32 is tested; not just samples, but each and every component. Sub-assemblies are tested through In-Circuit Testers and the results measured, with only those that pass all tests finding their way into the console.

We invest several hours in the testing of every X32 long before it gets to the stage shown in the video clip. But even at that point we invest the time to check every input, every output, every control and every switch. We measure noise, THD, frequency response and every other parameter supported by our highly sophisticated Audio Precision test stations.

Why Testing is Much More Economic Than Repair
It is critical to understand that anything is less costly than returning a unit for repair. Returning, repairing or exchanging a unit is ALWAYS more expensive than avoiding problems from the start.
It is common knowledge in manufacturing that the higher your production volume gets, the more the risk increases as one single component defect can cause tremendous damage. You see this in the car industry where recalls often affect millions of cars.

It is also a myth to believe that alleged usage of sub-par components and skipping of testing would be a cost saving. In fact it is exactly the opposite.
Any defect in the field is more expensive than preventing it from the start and hence our huge investment in people, high-end production equipment and quality control.

Why the X32 Has Become the Most Successful Digital Console on the Market
We brought the X32 to market at a price that is not only attractive to users, but a real threat to competitors. We are able to set this price because of our extreme vertical integration, the fact we buy parts for, in some cases, over 70% less than our competitors and the fact that we own the factory and don’t pay profits to contract manufacturers. So, how much would the X32 have cost if it were made by another brand – perhaps $10,000?

We believe the X32 brings massive value to the end user/consumer. The X32 product range has grown to an entire audio ecosystem of expanding and interchangeable products including X32, X32 Compact, X32 Producer, X32 Rack, X32 Core, S16 and P16. All products work together seamlessly via AES50 and ULTRANET using standard CAT5 wire.

When we launched the X32 we made a commitment to evolve the platform with software, feature and hardware enhancements. We also made a commitment to offer software updates and new features at no cost to existing owners of X32. In the 6 months since launch this commitment has seen us launch several new software applications such as the full-featured XiControl for iPad, XiQ for iPhone and iPod Touch and XControl for PC, Mac and Linux. There are lots more enhancements coming, and with the X32’s processing power and internal architecture you’ll see that this is an ever-evolving product.

Thank You.
Among the many accolades we were awarded the coveted Reader’s Choice Award by ProSoundWeb.com, recognized as a finalist for a TEC Award and even received the “Best in Show” Award from Pro Sound News and Pro Audio Review for the new X32 Series.

We feel that the X32 is the ultimate expression of the very principle on which Uli Behringer founded our company 24 years ago; to deliver the very best product at the lowest possible cost.

The X32 is already shaking the industry to its core and frankly within the shortest period of time, the X32 has become the best-selling digital console in the industry; and the trend is even going upwards.

Most important, rest assured that when you buy an X32 we will ensure that it becomes a great experience and we will stand behind you. Always.

Best regards

Joe Sanborn
Manager, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
Old 20th February 2013
  #12
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Sanborn View Post

3-Year Warranty Program
When you purchase and register your X32 (or any other BEHRINGER product) you participate in a full 3-Year Warranty Program and we will stand behind you and your X32. Not only are we here to support you in the event of an issue, but as you can see our Care and Product Specialist teams have been proactively engaging users on forums, Facebook, Twitter and everywhere else that you communicate to make your experience truly exceptional.
Really? So your 3 year warranty covers everything the 1 year warranty covers, you stand behind me and my x32?

Have you changed your policy recently, and not updated it online? Because I just read it, and "3 year" only covered things the user doenst' interact with. It does NOT cover faders, motors, meters, nobs, jacks, anything the user actually interacts with.

now, again, almost no manufactures cover 3 years on all that stuff, but this is the kind of *insert french* that really annoys professionals like us.

We don't mind a 1 year warranty, with 3 year coverage of internal components. We mind being lied to.

How are we lied to? What you posted, as an official rep, is extremely misleading.


Quote:
1.2 paragraph [describing 3 year extension]

"If the product displays any defects within the specified warranty period and that defect is not excluded under clause 4..."

Clause 4, subsection 3. [things that are excluded from 3 year coverage]

4.3 Where applicable, MUSIC Group warrants the following items contained in or with the product to be free from defects in material and workmanship for a period of one (1) year from date of purchase:
Digital Displays / LCDs
Meters
Switches / Sensors
VRS / Potentiometers
Loudspeaker drivers or diaphragm assemblies
All faders including cross-faders and motorized faders
Any mechanical component that may be affected by externally applied force

Old 20th February 2013
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
Bratwurst's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazerface View Post
Joe,

Is there any plans for the PC control app to possibly support fader control from a BCF-2000? This would make the new rackmount editions of the X32 much more appealing to me and a few other clients I spec gear for. I'd be willing to leave an X32 rack on stage, but I'd still need physical faders to mix FOH. This is similar to how SAC users control their own rigs currently.

If this isn't being planned yet.... Feature Request!
+1
Old 20th February 2013
  #14
Lives for gear
 

I have to generally agree with Red_Shift regarding the warranty. What is offered is more than most if not all of the competition and thus could be presented accurately and still as an advantage. This has been noted multiple times and some related discussions indicate that it is clearly being misinterpreted, thus continuing to inaccurately portray the warranty can only be perceived as intentional. It could be interesting to see what happens if some people start getting denied warranty coverage they thought they had based on such comments.

Behringer seems to be moving in a positive direction with some of their new products and the related support, however issues like this and the ELX availability (delaying the release to improve the product is fine, but going from a stated April 2012 release to still not released and with people having to ask to find out what was going on is not) after similar issues with the original X32 release suggests that there may still be some challenges in supporting the pro audio market.
Old 20th February 2013
  #15
Lives for gear
All the following is just my personal opinion, and I've been proven uninformed on this website on other things so many times already....

With this being a relatively new product, some are going to sit back and wait for other users to report how reliably the product has performed in the field before buying. To overcome that, it seems to me that B is trying to convince prospective customers that they're building these to higher quality standards, backing them with a longer warranty, and offering a desirable feature set at a certain price point.

Having any board fail during a show could be a much larger economic problem to a pro user than the purchase price and warranty repair-not to mention the sound guy getting bashed for "letting it happen."

Some buyers are going to buy boards based on their own perception of a manufacturer's track record of reliability even if it costs more until they are personally convinced of the product's reliability based on actual field use.
Old 20th February 2013
  #16
Gear Maniac
 
RobinJacobsson's Avatar
 

Hi, may I ask you something about the X32 - I want to send one of the Aux-outputs to an external Behringer rack-mixer, let's say Channel 1 and 2. Should I use a Stereo TRS > 2 x Mono TS cable or an unbalanced TS cable and just connect it to the L (1) channel of the mixer? Thanks!
Old 20th February 2013
  #17
Gear Nut
 

X32 Cable Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinJacobsson View Post
Hi, may I ask you something about the X32 - I want to send one of the Aux-outputs to an external Behringer rack-mixer, let's say Channel 1 and 2. Should I use a Stereo TRS > 2 x Mono TS cable or an unbalanced TS cable and just connect it to the L (1) channel of the mixer? Thanks!
Hi Robin,

If I understand your question correctly, the X32's 6 Auxiliary in/out channels are mono channels, not stereo channels. So in your case if you have a stereo source you are feeding using the Auxiliary outputs, use two outputs. I would use Ch1 output to feed the Left, and Ch2 output to feed the Right channel.

As far as cables you can use either TRS balanced 1/4" cables, if you are going into a balanced input, (better for longer cable runs). If you are going unbalanced use standard TS cables, if feeding an unbalanced input source, (shorter cable runs).

Best regards,
Joe Sanborn
Manager, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
Old 20th February 2013
  #18
Lives for gear
 

Myself I want the first X32 Producer to cross the Pacific, along with an S16. I sure hope they arrive by June, I'm already bidding on festivals on the assumption that they will have arrived...
Old 21st February 2013
  #19
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazerface View Post
Joe,

Is there any plans for the PC control app to possibly support fader control from a BCF-2000? This would make the new rackmount editions of the X32 much more appealing to me and a few other clients I spec gear for. I'd be willing to leave an X32 rack on stage, but I'd still need physical faders to mix FOH. This is similar to how SAC users control their own rigs currently.

If this isn't being planned yet.... Feature Request!
Hi,

I will discuss with our development team and see if this is possible and/or under consideration.


Best regards

Joe Sanborn
Manager, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
Old 21st February 2013
  #20
Gear Maniac
 

Hey Joe,

Ill take your silence as confirmation that your policy hasn't changed.

Thanks for confirming,

Austin
Old 21st February 2013
  #21
Here for the gear
 

interesting thread! So as friend of mine was using one of these recently at a gig and I was so impressed that I had the boss order one for smaller shows. It showed up with a broken fader motor and the console wasn't set to factory settings. I was surprised and thought that it may have been used already. I wiped the console and updated the firmware. everything tested out fine after that. We still ended up sending the console back to get a new one that doesn't have a dud fader. New console showed up about a week later and all the faders work great, but now the eq encoders arn't tracking correctly. I thought once again, it could be a firmware thing, so i loaded the lastest firmware on the console and nothing changed. Waiting on getting the third console now...

I'm still very impressed with the x32 feature set, the sound quality is good enough for the smaller shows it would go out on and beats every console the its price range. but Still worried that it will crap out mid-show or break very easily.

I watched the testing video and kept thinking, howcome they didn't catch a broken fader or bum encoder on my two consoles?

Hopefully it's fixed for the third one.

I like that behringer is trying to step it up and get in the pro audio world, but if they want to do it right, they need to step up their quality control as well.
Old 23rd February 2013
  #22
Gear Nut
 
Lazerface's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Sanborn View Post
Hi,

I will discuss with our development team and see if this is possible and/or under consideration.
This is great news. If this feature gets developed, I forsee an X32 rack and S16 in my future. There's a few events that I do where this flexibility is needed, and this would make it a perfect solution.
Old 23rd February 2013
  #23
PDC
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_Shift View Post
Hey Joe,

Ill take your silence as confirmation that your policy hasn't changed.

Thanks for confirming,

Austin
You have it right. Uli does the same song and dance. Well, this all works well with the new guy who is running the show for the pro audio division. They hired a former Harman guy. What did Harman do? Come out with a no fault warranty on Crown amps and then deny people warranty repairs of things that were said to be covered. I am not saying this Harman cat set up the warranty program for Behringer. He did not. What I am saying is that these guys are very good at promising one thing and delivering another with a smile. This new guy will likely not change that.

I will say that JS from Behringer has extended a hand to me. I have a Behringer X32 that is freakin the heck out in a church install. We have been hit with about 14" of snow and more is coming Sunday. As soon as I get in there, I am switching the consoles out. JS is going to help me get the old console in and serviced. I am also going to get a replacement for an X32 that was banged up prior to packaging and shipping.

They say that recovering is how you retain customers. We will see. These guys are attack dogs on the forums, doing damage control quickly. They are at least acknowledging issues and not calling customers liars. Two thumbs up for that!
Old 23rd February 2013
  #24
Lives for gear
 
Temple of Light's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_Shift View Post
Hey Joe,

Ill take your silence as confirmation that your policy hasn't changed.

Thanks for confirming,

Austin
Chachachafvcking ching....
Old 23rd February 2013
  #25
Gear Head
Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A
at least read the first page.

X32 Discussion
read for yourself.
Old 23rd February 2013
  #26
Lives for gear
Huge amount of information to digest in those two links.

Companies have to make a judgment call about what to warrant and for how long. You'd expect a refrigerator to last more than a year....but at some point, the manufacturer's warranty drops off.

I'm guessing someone decided that stuff like faders gets broken in use too much to warrant this kind of stuff beyond one year. My guess is that may be where the highest degree of risk of breakage and the most number of claims would be expected if the warranty goes too long. So instead of taking this risk, they just limited the warranty to a year.

It would be more clear to the customer if they said 1 year full warranty with additional 2 year limited warranty on internal components, but that takes the marketing zing out of saying 3 year warranty, IMO.

Last edited by 2manyrocks; 24th February 2013 at 12:28 AM.. Reason: additional thought
Old 24th February 2013
  #27
Lives for gear
 
Aisle 6's Avatar
Has anyone who owns an X32 had any issue with the fan underneath the unit? When I used one, I noticed that there is a cooling fan in the middle of the underside panel and it occurred to me that in a standard road case, the feet tend to sink into the foam lining a little and this would mean that the fan may get chocked in a road case. Anyone had any issue with this?
Old 24th February 2013
  #28
Gear Head
 

In reply to the post about putting an x32 in a standard case ,, Not a good idea. Most reputable case companies have extended the wood assembly of the doghouse to go under the rubber feet and give you an inch of clearance for proper ventilation. If your not ordering a case with a doghouse, I would highly recommend that you verify with the case company that you need wood slat inserts
Old 24th February 2013
  #29
Lives for gear
 
Aisle 6's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel Audio View Post
In reply to the post about putting an x32 in a standard case ,, Not a good idea. Most reputable case companies have extended the wood assembly of the doghouse to go under the rubber feet and give you an inch of clearance for proper ventilation. If your not ordering a case with a doghouse, I would highly recommend that you verify with the case company that you need wood slat inserts
This is the kind of solution I was thinking. Otherwise that fan will be problematic.
Old 24th February 2013
  #30
Lives for gear
 
jetboatguy's Avatar
 

I second that.. generic console cases aren't nearly as secure then a purpose built case with doghouse
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