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PA monitors for rehearsal and shows
Old 27th December 2010
  #1
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mooghappy's Avatar
 

PA monitors for rehearsal and shows

I couldn't find any threads regarding this, but if you find some, please direct me towards them.

I need some good quality monitors, mostly for vocals, but possibly other instruments of a rock band (drums, guitar, bass, synths/keyboards)
to be used for our rehearsal space and for possibly taking on the road for live gig situations, and maybe even live tracking.

Any suggestions? I know very little on what's out there and what I'd need, but I'd lean towards higher end quality that won't break down and sound really good.
Old 27th December 2010
  #2
Lives for gear
If you're talking about a vocal monitor and not floor wedges, TC makes some personal vox monitors that attach to your mic stand.
Old 27th December 2010
  #3
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loujudson's Avatar
Your question is not clear. Do you want stage monitors as in wedges, or speakers so the audience can hear? You could even be talking about computer screens from the lack of clarity in the question. Not jumping on you, just asking for a clearer question.

PA speakers are called mains, and stage monitors are called just that, monitors.

And as a recording forum mainly, not a lot of support here for live sound. I do live sound more than recording, though.

L
Old 27th December 2010
  #4
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I think my lack of knowledge leads to confusion of my question and an inability to search for what I'm looking for.
I don't mean to be confusing.

What I need are some speakers that I would send a Shure Sm58 mic running through a mixer so I can hear vocals when my electric rock band rehearses, because I can not sing above our loud volumes, so I need a way to hear the vocals.
I would also ideally be able to use these same speakers for live shows if needed.

It has nothing to do with computer monitors. This is sound related.
So I suppose I want mains and/or monitors. Is there a difference between PA speakers and stage monitors?

I guess would need floor wedges only if playing at a live venue? Recommendations on good floor wedges are appreciated as well.

Old 27th December 2010
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooghappy View Post
I think my lack of knowledge leads to confusion of my question and an inability to search for what I'm looking for.
I don't mean to be confusing.

What I need are some speakers that I would send a Shure Sm58 mic running through a mixer so I can hear vocals when my electric rock band rehearses, because I can not sing above our loud volumes, so I need a way to hear the vocals.
I would also ideally be able to use these same speakers for live shows if needed.

It has nothing to do with computer monitors. This is sound related.
So I suppose I want mains and/or monitors. Is there a difference between PA speakers and stage monitors?

I guess would need floor wedges only if playing at a live venue? Recommendations on good floor wedges are appreciated as well.

Generally speaking, venues will have their own sound setup. Even if you brought your own floor wedges, it would probably not be worth the time/energy to integrate your own wedges into a set stage.

Floor wedges are for monitoring purposes and are setup on the floor. You use those to monitor your vocal and whatever else you may have running into the mixer. So if you go to a show, those are the big blocks you usually see at the feet of the performers facing the stage.

Mains are the speakers going towards the audience and I think that's what you're referring to. Are you really planning to take a PA system to your band's live shows or are you honestly not sure? Answering that question will help figure out whether you need a true portable PA setup or just something for rehearsal.
Old 27th December 2010
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacklion View Post
Generally speaking, venues will have their own sound setup. Even if you brought your own floor wedges, it would probably not be worth the time/energy to integrate your own wedges into a set stage.

Floor wedges are for monitoring purposes and are setup on the floor. You use those to monitor your vocal and whatever else you may have running into the mixer. So if you go to a show, those are the big blocks you usually see at the feet of the performers facing the stage.

Mains are the speakers going towards the audience and I think that's what you're referring to. Are you really planning to take a PA system to your band's live shows or are you honestly not sure? Answering that question will help figure out whether you need a true portable PA setup or just something for rehearsal.
Yes, sounds like mains are really what I need.
I mostly need something for rehearsal purposes at the moment. Being portable is secondary.
You are right, most venues do have their own set up.
But I also play a lot of home shows/underground spots that we rent out, and there they don't have anything set up. We will have to provide our own sound set up.
So at some point it would be good to at least have something in case such a show opportunity comes up.
Old 27th December 2010
  #7
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There are many options available to you but ultimately it comes down to how good of quality you want v/s what your needs are v/s what your budget is. From what it sounds like the band has their own amps on-stage, so you just need a monitor to hear your vocal---but also project that vocal into the house? Will the PA system (for the gigs that you have to provide your own sound) be solely for vocals, or will you need to pump the whole band through the main speaker cabinets as well? How big are these venues and places you're playing at typically?
Old 27th December 2010
  #8
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I take it you're just starting out? No gigs yet and you just need to be able to hear yourself without destroying your voice? You can start with something really inexpensive and work your way up, or you can kind of jump in the middle if you have a little cash... A lot depends on the gigs you're going to be playing: basements and small bars won't have much of a sound system if any, you'll need to bring your own. Mid-sized bars and most outdoor venues have the sound down and you're just bringing instruments. So it's not really necessary to have a sound system that'll cover 500 people, fun but not necessary. What's out there?

In your circumstance, where you've got the practice "just the vocals" thing, and the possible small venue thing, I'd look at trapezoidal cabs that you can lie on their sides for monitors or pole mount for mains. Something along the lines of an old pair of JBL Eons (selling in the $300 range for a pair now, and you don't even need a mixer if you're just using them for vocals). Heck, you could get by with a $100 used Peavey Keyboard speaker/mixer for a start...
Old 28th December 2010
  #9
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Vocals are top priority. We do have amps for guitar and abss that pump plenty of volume on their own, and the drummer is more than loud enough. (Occassionally though, (during loud sections) the drummer finds it hard to hear the guitar and bass since the cabs aren't pointed at her like in rehearsal, so some wedges pointed at her may be useful)
We also have synthesizers and effects/samples that may need a boost as they may or may not have their own dedicated amps.
So the use will most likely be exclusively vocals, with possible room for synths/drum machines/effects/samples.

Budget isn't really an issue, I have cash for a good setup. I'm looking for mid to high level range quality. Stuff I can use that will sound good and I enjoy holding on to for a long time because I like the sound.
Mains on poles or keyboard amps would likely cover it, but I hate the sound of the Roland keyboard amps that I've tried.

We play small to mid size venues, nothing huge so far.
We do have gigs already, we have played gigs, we're new but not just starting out. Our current rehearsal spot has mains for vocals, but they sound like crap, tend to be too quite before they feedback (feedback issue perhaps due to rehearsing too loud) and we're moving to a new spot that won't have mains for our rehearsals.

How do those JBL Eon's sound?
Old 28th December 2010
  #10
pan
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I can really recommend these active monitors that you can also use as main top on a stand.

dB Technologies Opera M12-4 PLUS 12"/1" Monitor:
http://www.dbtechnologies.com/index....1;product]=148

They have plenty of power for rehearsal situations and a great frequency response avoiding early feedback. Well built and small footprint. I do livesound and am always happy, when a club uses these monitors - and they are my PA rental of choice on budget.
Old 28th December 2010
  #11
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BradLyons's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mooghappy View Post
Vocals are top priority. We do have amps for guitar and abss that pump plenty of volume on their own, and the drummer is more than loud enough. (Occassionally though, (during loud sections) the drummer finds it hard to hear the guitar and bass since the cabs aren't pointed at her like in rehearsal, so some wedges pointed at her may be useful)
We also have synthesizers and effects/samples that may need a boost as they may or may not have their own dedicated amps.
So the use will most likely be exclusively vocals, with possible room for synths/drum machines/effects/samples.

Budget isn't really an issue, I have cash for a good setup. I'm looking for mid to high level range quality. Stuff I can use that will sound good and I enjoy holding on to for a long time because I like the sound.
Mains on poles or keyboard amps would likely cover it, but I hate the sound of the Roland keyboard amps that I've tried.

We play small to mid size venues, nothing huge so far.
We do have gigs already, we have played gigs, we're new but not just starting out. Our current rehearsal spot has mains for vocals, but they sound like crap, tend to be too quite before they feedback (feedback issue perhaps due to rehearsing too loud) and we're moving to a new spot that won't have mains for our rehearsals.

How do those JBL Eon's sound?
Thanks for your detailed information, that certainly does help. A setup that comes to mind would be a pair of the QSC K8's and their K-Sub's for your main PA system. This offers an excellent sound without spending a fortune, easy to transport and setup, and for pumping your keyboards through you'll get HUGE bottom-end. The speaker mounts onto a pole that is mounted into the sub. By the way these subs are on built-in casters, so again transporting is easy as they are also quite compact. They are rugged, I toured all around China with them. There are (3) speakers in the line that are all the same, just different size woofers....the K8, K10, and K12's. You would not believe how small the K8 is, it's wonderful!!! There is one distinct difference between the K8 v/s the K10/K12 and that is trying to use it as a monitor. Both the K10 and K12 have a built-in amp tilt-back that allow it to lay on the floor and tilted up like a wedge, the K8 does not. SO for your monitors a K10 or pair of them would be fine.

Let me address the issue of feedback..... this probably isn't your speakers at all, I mean, changing speakers isn't going to eliminate feedback as that is caused by other factors. Feedback is different in every space, rehearsing too loud CAN be the issue if there's no room for the sound to escape, if your microphone gain is just too much, if your mics don't have a tight enough polar pattern, if your EQ isn't set right, if the room isn't tuned, if you're standing too close to the speakers or in-front of them, etc.

As to the JBL Eon's---great speakers too!
Old 28th December 2010
  #12
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loujudson's Avatar
Even though the above is from a guitar center sales person, I agree with him. UI was reading your post interestedly until I saw the EON mention - the QSCs will be MUCH better for you. So get the ones you can afford. The QSC K series can be used as wedges as well as pole mounted mains too!

L
Old 28th December 2010
  #13
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AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

Get some first round EONs (grey ones) hell I have tried to blow mine up for many years and they still work perfect.
Old 29th December 2010
  #14
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Great advice guys, thanks.
Those QSC's look nice, I was thinking about those the other day.
Any difference between the K series and the KW series? Is the extra price of the KW series worth it over the K?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BradLyons View Post
Let me address the issue of feedback..... this probably isn't your speakers at all, I mean, changing speakers isn't going to eliminate feedback as that is caused by other factors. Feedback is different in every space, rehearsing too loud CAN be the issue if there's no room for the sound to escape, if your microphone gain is just too much, if your mics don't have a tight enough polar pattern, if your EQ isn't set right, if the room isn't tuned, if you're standing too close to the speakers or in-front of them, etc.
That pretty much sums up every issue we've had at our rehearsal space, haha. We just turn amp volume down and its mostly solved our problem.
Volume control seems to be our biggest challenge. We try to be both a super loud instrumental band and a tight noise pop group, and it seems it's hard to have both and retain vocals that are audible and not feeding back.
Old 29th December 2010
  #15
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Good to see you're finally getting the advice you needed. Good Luck! thumbsup
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