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Stick PA versus compact 8 inch speaker and sub?
Old 6th November 2020
  #1
Here for the gear
 
Stick PA versus compact 8 inch speaker and sub?

Hi. What insight can you offer on a stick PA verses a compact 8 inch speaker mounted on a sub? Would an EV ZXa1 and sub sound better than their EV evolve 50 for example?
Old 6th November 2020
  #2
Lives for gear
 
edva's Avatar
 
26 Reviews written
๐ŸŽง 10 years
Depends. Do you have bass elements in your mix?
For live sound with bass, you typically need a sub.
IMHO. Good luck.
Old 7th November 2020
  #3
Here for the gear
 
Stick PA versus compact speaker and Sub

My biggest issue is getting a good digital piano sound, so I think I need the closest I can get to a studio monitor sound for live performance without breaking the bank. Breaking the bank would be anything over 2000 AU.
Old 7th November 2020
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
docbop's Avatar
 
๐ŸŽง 10 years
I thought the big deal with stick PAs is they can be placed anywhere and not feedback so real good for small stages. I mainly hear of solo and duo type acts using them. Or like Pat Metheny who uses them for his on stage monitor system he has like twenty of them scattered about the stage.
Old 7th November 2020 | Show parent
  #5
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edva's Avatar
 
26 Reviews written
๐ŸŽง 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mins3008 View Post
My biggest issue is getting a good digital piano sound, so I think I need the closest I can get to a studio monitor sound for live performance without breaking the bank. Breaking the bank would be anything over 2000 AU.
For a digital piano (and also vocals if any), you'd be OK without a sub, most of the time, as long as your selected speakers had decent bass response.
But for something that sounds like a good, full range studio monitor system, you'd generally need a sub to properly represent the lowest octave.
IMHO. Good luck.
Old 7th November 2020
  #6
Gear Nut
 
๐ŸŽง 5 years
Mono or stereo?

Thanks. Iโ€™m leaning towards the EV Zxa1 as Iโ€™ve been reading forums where many keyboard players attest to their clarity. I wonder if I really need two though for stereo?
Old 8th November 2020 | Show parent
  #7
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edva's Avatar
 
26 Reviews written
๐ŸŽง 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by min3008 View Post
Thanks. Iโ€™m leaning towards the EV Zxa1 as Iโ€™ve been reading forums where many keyboard players attest to their clarity. I wonder if I really need two though for stereo?
Not really. The stereo field of a piano in a live sound environment often collapses to a diffused mono-ish sound pretty quickly.
Two speakers would of course increase the available volume, if that's an issue.
IMHO.
Good luck.

Last edited by edva; 8th November 2020 at 12:32 AM.. Reason: clarity+
Old 8th November 2020
  #8
Gear Nut
 
๐ŸŽง 5 years
Ev Active compact speaker or column?

Thanks and good point about more volume. Now Iโ€™m really confused about whether to go with an EV zxa1 speaker which digital acoustic Piano players rave about, or the EV evolve 30m which everyone compliments the sound of and this offers a sub and in built mixing options. The overall clarity of sound is the main priority over features however. I have been very unsatisfied with AP sound through a Bose L1 and S1
Old 8th November 2020
  #9
Lives for gear
 
๐ŸŽง 10 years
It is important to understand the fact that there is no perfect answer to this question. I have a Yamaha CP5 stage piano that gives the best full scale reproduction with my KV2 ES system. A clean clear 20/20K HZ point source delivery to 1,200+ seats requires 5 boxes per stack weighing in at Apx. 500 lbs. requiring a power hungry 20 amps. Sounds GREAT however not a realistic plan for most gigs.

I have 3 KV2 EX10 wedges that can be pole mounted that are a killer SR option for either my solo guitar/vocal show or Bluegrass bands. @ 2K each they are relatively expensive but will deliver outstanding point source transparent 80/20K sonic clarity with the subject acoustic Americana for as many as 500 seats.

My recommendation for the OP's needs is the RCF Evox 12: offering a powerful bass bin with the best stick mounted line array mids and highs available in the 2K price range. World class sonic quality @40/20K HZ assures the effective delivery of a stage piano given the 180 HZ crossover with it's Bass module that provides a much improved low mid coverage missing with most subs lower crossovers. This is the only stick mounted line array I would ever consider using to replace my tripod pole mounted EX10s. The primary reason is the fact that I am 80 years old and lifting 40+ lb. speakers is no longer in my gig work plan. Any keys player needs to give this system a through evaluation @ the DB levels they are planning to deliver. IMO it will be the clear winner in the @2k price market.
Hugh
Old 8th November 2020
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
If you want the coherence of a point source studio monitor then you will need a point source PA speaker, all multi driver column speakers produce a diffused sound field because that is the physics of multiple driver arrays, there is no way for them to not do that.
Old 8th November 2020
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Pro Sound Guy's Avatar
 
You have a bit more ways to use a separate sub and loudspeaker verses the sub/multiple driver array like the Evolve.
Also, the multiple driver array setups typically xover at 160hz 250hz between the tops and the subs.
Although I have to say I have heard rave reviews on the EV multiple driver arrays with the subs.
Also consider the EV SX passive line. I do have a set of EV SX80's and they really are dam good sounding passive boxes.
With the separate sub/tops you can use the tops without the subs and you can move the tops around and center cluster subs etc.
My vote is separate sub/ point source tops.
Old 8th November 2020 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Nut
 
๐ŸŽง 5 years
Rcf 12

Thank you for your thoughts. I should add that my budget is max 2k AU. Unfortunately the RCF 12 is $3600 in my corner of the world.
Old 8th November 2020
  #13
Gear Nut
 
๐ŸŽง 5 years
For now I have decided to use my actual studio monitors for live indoors when quieter conditions and Bose stick PA for when I need more volume. My studio monitors are 8 inch Fluids coaxial and sound good. I donโ€™t need to drive them too loud in formal ceremonies so I should avoid distortion. I mount them on a couple of tripod stands. I think I will look at getting some compact 8 inch speakers down the track like the QSC CP8 or Zx1as. Then I can always add a sub or two down the track. Thanks everyone for your thoughts. It seems the general consensus is donโ€™t go stick PA for better sound
Old 8th November 2020
  #14
Gear Head
Check out the Nord Piano forum under amplification. They have pages on the topic.
I read through all 20 pages and the winner is QSC K8.2 at $650 The EV ZXa1 or Yamaha line would be a distant second.
I have one K8.2 and the headroom for electric piano is endless. It has a Hz input that even handles my Roland electronic drum pad. The top end sound is crystal clear, very close to a studio monitor. Vocals are know to sound great through QSC. In the future you can get a stereo pair if size of venues increase.
If you want to spend more at twice the price the RCF TT08 is even closer to a studio monitor sound for AP. You would also need a small mixer since the RCF has no mixer built in. I use the Yamaha MG06X which is only $130

Another alternative I can recommend which I also have is a QSC CP8 for $400
Just as clear, just doesn't have the headroom of the K8.2 If you need a sub to round out the bottom end I have the Fishman Sub300, also $400. Just know you won't be able to mount your top on the Fishman pole because it is a different size. So figure in the price of a stand. The Fishman has surprising output for a 8 inch woofer. I love it because it is only 30 Lbs. For $800 this is all the system you would probably need.

Does it equal or exceed the RCF Evox 12, EV Evolve 50 or EV 30 is a good question. I've never heard any of them, but for the price the RCF Evox 12 is probably overkill for your needs. My dream system for a little bit more money would be a small mixer running a RCF TT08 over a RCF 702 sub.
Old 8th November 2020
  #15
Gear Maniac
 
๐ŸŽง 5 years
Right now I have a pair of evolve 50s set up in my livingroom. I also have a pair of QSC K8.2 s and a RCF 702 AS ll sub set up also. Both sound good, the evolve is easier to get up and running because of less cords. Not sure how they would sound with electric piano but recorded music sounds great. Both have plenty of low end and clarity.
Old 8th November 2020
  #16
Gear Nut
 
๐ŸŽง 5 years
Recorded music

Thanks all for your thoughts. I find most systems work ok with recorded music. Plug instruments in like acoustic guitar and you notice the difference. Plug acoustic piano in and all flaws shine through. Everyone seems to have good things to say about QSC k 8.2 and RCF. I read a great review by Sound On Sound revealing no cons on the QSC CP8 after testing it in a variety of set ups and applications and also heard a nice piano sound on YouTube from piano man Chuck. Came across another forum where folks seemed to prefer the Zxa1 to QSC Cp8 although it was noted the EV ZXa1 does hiss.

Last edited by min3008; 9th November 2020 at 12:40 AM..
Old 9th November 2020 | Show parent
  #17
Gear Maniac
 
๐ŸŽง 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by min3008 View Post
Thanks all for your thoughts. I find most systems work ok with recorded music. Plug instruments in like acoustic guitar and you notice the difference. Plug acoustic piano in and all flaws shine through. Everyone seems to have good things to say about QSC k 8.2 and RCF. I read a great review by Sound On Sound revealing no cons on the QSC CP8 after testing it in a variety of set ups and applications and also heard a nice piano sound on YouTube from piano man Chuck. Came across another forum where folks seemed to prefer the Zxa1 to QSC Cp8 although it was noted the EV ZXa1 does hiss.
I have some CP-8s also. They are currently connected to my computer. For the money they are a good speaker and make a great compact floor monitor.
Old 9th November 2020
  #18
Gear Head
modulusman
Can you give me some feedback on the RCF 702 AS II sub. Are you happy with it, what are its strengths? I'm trying to decide between the RCF 702, EV EXL200-12sp, and QSC K112. Again have never heard any of them and have to buy blind.
Old 9th November 2020 | Show parent
  #19
Gear Nut
 
๐ŸŽง 5 years
Can you inform what system has higher sound fidelity between your evolve 50s and QSCs?
Old 9th November 2020
  #20
Gear Nut
 
๐ŸŽง 5 years
Made a decision!

Thanks all. The Nord forum as suggested was most helpful. Iโ€™ll trust that and go with QSC K8.2. Still quite expensive even for a pair. I would do some gigs to earn them but no ones hiring in these social distancing times in AUS. Maybe I can push trolleys around or something....or try a lemonade stand. Ha!
Old 9th November 2020 | Show parent
  #21
Gear Maniac
 
๐ŸŽง 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by wweiss View Post
modulusman
Can you give me some feedback on the RCF 702 AS II sub. Are you happy with it, what are its strengths? I'm trying to decide between the RCF 702, EV EXL200-12sp, and QSC K112. Again have never heard any of them and have to buy blind.
I have only had it a couple of weeks and it hasn't been used at a gig. The biggest strength is the weight and size. Only about 40 pounds. It goes pretty low and gets loud. I was looking for something small that would fit in the back of my Toyota RAV 4. The plan right now is for next summer to use this at a weekly gig with my Evolve 50s. The band is planning on all going direct. While the evolve 50s have plenty of thump for the crowd size {50-75} inside some of these gigs may be outside and I will use the RCF on an aux send to help with the kick and bass guitar. I looked hard at the QSC K112. I already own 2of the KS212C and a KW181. The one advantage the QSC has is casters. The RCF was cheaper.
Old 9th November 2020 | Show parent
  #22
Gear Maniac
 
๐ŸŽง 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by min3008 View Post
Can you inform what system has higher sound fidelity between your evolve 50s and QSCs?
hard to tell in my living room both sound about equal to me.
Old 9th November 2020
  #23
Gear Head
modulusman- You have quite the subwoofer collection!

Does the RCF 702 outperform the bass of one Evolve 50?

Besides price or weight how did the 702 compare to the QSC K112 sound wise?
By the specs they are pretty close. RCF 40 Hz,129dB QSC 38Hz,128dB
Old 10th November 2020 | Show parent
  #24
Gear Maniac
 
๐ŸŽง 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by wweiss View Post
modulusman- You have quite the subwoofer collection!

Does the RCF 702 outperform the bass of one Evolve 50?

Besides price or weight how did the 702 compare to the QSC K112 sound wise?
By the specs they are pretty close. RCF 40 Hz,129dB QSC 38Hz,128dB
I don't have a QSC K112. I have the k212C and a KW 181. I would say that the 702 and the evolve are fairly close in performance. It is really hard to tell just in my living room. I need to try them at a gig in a bigger space. Unfortunately that
will not likely happen until next spring. I also have a pair of Yamaha DXSmkll and a pair of EAW NT 22s Subwoofers.
Old 10th November 2020
  #25
Gear Head
The 702 must seem like a feather weight next to those heavy hitters! Are your Yamaha DXS mk II's 12,15, or 18 inchers?

Was wondering if you had heard the QSC K112 when you were purchasing the 702. If so how did they compare?
Old 10th November 2020 | Show parent
  #26
Gear Maniac
 
๐ŸŽง 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by wweiss View Post
The 702 must seem like a feather weight next to those heavy hitters! Are your Yamaha DXS mk II's 12,15, or 18 inchers?

Was wondering if you had heard the QSC K112 when you were purchasing the 702. If so how did they compare?
The 12 inch DXS. No I didn't get a chance to hear the QSC.
Old 12th November 2020
  #27
Gear Head
 
๐ŸŽง 5 years
Sorry, late to the thread. Which is better for DPs -- an 8"/sub (presumably a K8.2) or a stick-type PA such as a Bose L1? Especially if you're playing acoustic-level gigs in bars, restaurants, breweries, etc.

I have multiple examples of each, and play DPs in a variety of situations. Different tools for different jobs. BTW, you'll see me all over those Nord threads that were mentioned.

First, if you're playing DPs you're just not going to need/want a sub with the K8.2. Unless you're Bass Boy of course. For example, my bass player uses one as a monitor (no amp) and is quite happy. You'll be surprised at how low they go.

The Bose L1 and similar are great at wide dispersion and crystal accuracy in the upper registers. Sit anywhere in the restaurant and everyone gets tasty ear candy, without the risk of blasting anyone. The bass handling can get sloppy (L1 Compact, L1 S), but that's not an issue if you're playing an acoustic-level gig for a modest number of patrons.

As mentioned before, the K8.2 and similar are point sources. Think of them as flashlights beaming sound. Patrons sitting close may get too much of a dose, while the ones in the back may be struggling to hear you. Two flashlights are better than one. If they're both behind your head, you get this wonderful stereo image. Screw the audience, it sounds great to me!

If you are playing as part of a larger, louder electric band -- and you want to either have stage monitoring or stage sound -- do not consider the Bose sticks. They crumble quickly when the going gets loud. By comparison, a pair of K8.2s can hold an enthusiastic guitar player at bay all night long.

In the "none of the above" category, my Spacestation CPS V.3 gets a *lot* of use for small gigs as it sort of splits the difference. The sound quality is acceptable (not great though) but it fills the room with this magic, spooky near-stereo image that sounds great everywhere. Anything with decent stereo imaging works wonderfully with it: leslie organs, chorus EPs, etc.

Getting a great acoustic piano sound isn't easy, but is definitely worth the effort. Best of luck!
Old 14th November 2020
  #28
Gear Head
cphollis
Good to see you back on the forum. You disappear and seem to come back every few months. Just want to say I owe you a debt of gratitude. After reading your many posts on the Nord forum I bought a pair of RCF TT10's. Couldn't be more happy! Smoothest PA speaker I've ever heard. Close to studio monitor quality. The way they stay clear and not harsh at max volume is magical. I know you recommended the TT08's but I figured I needed the extra low end and max output a 10 inch can deliver because I play heavy synth and percussion. Think I made the right decision. I also just bought a RCF 702 sub to make a full range system. Bass Boy here-play keyboards and Roland electronic drums through the rig. How RCF got this type of quality in a speaker less than 30 Lbs. I will never know.
I'm spreading the word of the K8.2's for those who can't spend the extra $$
Thanks again !!
Old 15th November 2020 | Show parent
  #29
Gear Head
 
๐ŸŽง 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by wweiss View Post
cphollis
Good to see you back on the forum. You disappear and seem to come back every few months. Just want to say I owe you a debt of gratitude. After reading your many posts on the Nord forum I bought a pair of RCF TT10's. Couldn't be more happy! Smoothest PA speaker I've ever heard. Close to studio monitor quality. The way they stay clear and not harsh at max volume is magical. I know you recommended the TT08's but I figured I needed the extra low end and max output a 10 inch can deliver because I play heavy synth and percussion. Think I made the right decision. I also just bought a RCF 702 sub to make a full range system. Bass Boy here-play keyboards and Roland electronic drums through the rig. How RCF got this type of quality in a speaker less than 30 Lbs. I will never know.
I'm spreading the word of the K8.2's for those who can't spend the extra $$
Thanks again !!
Wow, a pair of TT10s! Congrats! I bet they sound as great as the TT08s, only more so! That's the nice thing about PA speakers -- buy killer stuff and they'll sound awesome for many, many years.

Like you, I found the K8.2s most of the way there for a fraction of the price, and now that there are used ones around it's definitely a good way to go for many folks. People are skeptical until they hear them, and then they become fans.

I do drop by here occasionally, but don't find much to weigh in about. Except this topic, of course! Glad you're doing well!
Old 15th November 2020 | Show parent
  #30
Gear Nut
 
๐ŸŽง 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by wweiss View Post
cphollis
Good to see you back on the forum. You disappear and seem to come back every few months. Just want to say I owe you a debt of gratitude. After reading your many posts on the Nord forum I bought a pair of RCF TT10's. Couldn't be more happy! Smoothest PA speaker I've ever heard. Close to studio monitor quality. The way they stay clear and not harsh at max volume is magical. I know you recommended the TT08's but I figured I needed the extra low end and max output a 10 inch can deliver because I play heavy synth and percussion. Think I made the right decision. I also just bought a RCF 702 sub to make a full range system. Bass Boy here-play keyboards and Roland electronic drums through the rig. How RCF got this type of quality in a speaker less than 30 Lbs. I will never know.
I'm spreading the word of the K8.2's for those who can't spend the extra $$
Thanks again !!
I feel the same way about the my RCF HD 10-A MK4s. They don't have the power of the TTs but the sound must be very similar because what I hear is beautiful smooth and balanced.
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