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Digital Mixers with pre/post per channel selection on same AUX
Old 18th October 2020
  #1
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Digital Mixers with pre/post per channel selection on same AUX

Which Digital mixers allow to select certain channels pre-fader and other post-faders on the same aux ? Like in analog mixers
Old 18th October 2020
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TS-12 View Post
Which Digital mixers allow to select certain channels pre-fader and other post-faders on the same aux ? Like in analog mixers
Budget? Number of channels? What part of the world?
Old 18th October 2020
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TS-12 View Post
Which Digital mixers allow to select certain channels pre-fader and other post-faders on the same aux ? Like in analog mixers
Most of them. Do you have more requirements than that?

As an example, the X32 has the following options for each "aux" send:

1) Input
2) Pre-EQ
3) Post-EQ
4) Pre-Fader
5) Post-Fader
6) Subgroup

So as you can see, many digital mixers not only do what you were asking, but they do it much more granularly, and in some can even make the individual send set differently per channel (the X32 can).
Old 19th October 2020 | Show parent
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneEng View Post
As an example, the X32 has the following options for each "aux" send:
Not quite - yes you can choose the send point per channel, but the changes affect pairs of mixbuses. You can't change the send point for an individual mixbus. I only discovered this fairly recently - and it's never been a problem for me.

Interestingly, the XR18 appears to let you assign per channel and per individual mixbus.

And agree fully that the range of send points with some digital mixers is superb. The X32 and XR mixers are particularly flexible in this regard, others can be less so.
Old 19th October 2020
  #5
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16 channels. With at least 6 outs.
Old 19th October 2020 | Show parent
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TS-12 View Post
16 channels. With at least 6 outs.
The Yamaha DM 1000 meets all your stated criteria'
Old 19th October 2020 | Show parent
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TS-12 View Post
16 channels. With at least 6 outs.
The Yamaha DM 1000 meets all your stated criteria.
Old 19th October 2020 | Show parent
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
The Yamaha DM 1000 meets all your stated criteria.
A rather leftfield suggestion for a 15+ year old model. Also priced well above the current ranges of desks, though used would be an option. Not to mention analog gains and horrible dated UI.

Also worth noting that, although it does indeed allow individual pre/post selection for busses, it lacks the wider choice of send points available in most contemporary desks.

For me, the real gotcha (with my similarly architected 01v96) running monitors from FOH was that the pre-fade sends were still post dynamics & EQ. Not great. Fixable by splitting channels, maybe, but you shouldn't have to do that.

Depending on the OP's use case, which we still don't know, this could well be a deal breaker.

Having moved on to the X32/XR desks, getting the earlier mixbus sends was one of many winners. (And, of course, there are plenty of other desks that will do this)
Old 19th October 2020 | Show parent
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlecSp View Post
A rather leftfield suggestion for a 15+ year old model. Also priced well above the current ranges of desks, though used would be an option. Not to mention analog gains and horrible dated UI.

Also worth noting that, although it does indeed allow individual pre/post selection for busses, it lacks the wider choice of send points available in most contemporary desks.

For me, the real gotcha (with my similarly architected 01v96) running monitors from FOH was that the pre-fade sends were still post dynamics & EQ. Not great. Fixable by splitting channels, maybe, but you shouldn't have to do that.

Depending on the OP's use case, which we still don't know, this could well be a deal breaker.

Having moved on to the X32/XR desks, getting the earlier mixbus sends was one of many winners. (And, of course, there are plenty of other desks that will do this)
It works, has great versatility and fits all of the criteria. So the core is 15 years old. The X32 is over 7 years old. So what is your point?

BTW I use one regularly and it does have multiple pick off points.
Old 19th October 2020 | Show parent
  #10
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i'm with avare:

the dm1000 does a few things no new desk under ca. $50k can do and has been holding up very well; it became de facto standard for all smaller productions at lots of broadcasting companies while the x-desks are nowhere to be seen in any professional environment...

besides: no one with a clean conscience can recommend buying any gear from evil b!
Old 19th October 2020 | Show parent
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
It works, has great versatility and fits all of the criteria. So the core is 15 years old. The X32 is over 7 years old. So what is your point?

BTW I use one regularly and it does have multiple pick off points.
Fair enough - the DM1000 is only *twice* as old - that's quite a time in technology.

Yes, it does have multiple pick off points, but does it have enough of them. For me, that'd be a pre-dynamics point, which my old 01v96 definitely didn't have and (from looking at the manual) I don't think the DM1000 has either.

Of course, we know nothing more about what the OP actually wants. And without that, we can only second guess.

And, for someone coming from the analog world, mixbus outputs are simply pre/post - they'll often never have even thought of the muliple pick off points that become available once the desk has a whole bunch of additional DSP available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
...the x-desks are nowhere to be seen in any professional environment...

besides: no one with a clean conscience can recommend buying any gear from evil b!
You might not have found them in your pro environments, but I've come across plenty of X32/M32 touring professionally - they're practically the staple of the UK club circuit. Maybe lower down the food chain from your profession, but still making plenty of money for their owners.

And, while the X32 is a good example of a contemporary budget desk with flexibility, I pointed out that the flexibility of tap points was common in contemporary digital desks.

So let's not turn this into the standard B rant!
Old 19th October 2020 | Show parent
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlecSp View Post
(...) So let's not turn this into the standard B rant!
exactly this attitude is a problem...

...but i agree that it's not a technical issue and hence off-topic.

(no 'standard' rant btw: i know him personally and got to deal with him back in the 90's - i since then have a few additional reservations beyond ethical and environmental aspects)
Old 19th October 2020 | Show parent
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlecSp View Post
Fair enough - the DM1000 is only *twice* as old - that's quite a time in technology.

Yes, it does have multiple pick off points, but does it have enough of them. For me, that'd be a pre-dynamics point, which my old 01v96 definitely didn't have and (from looking at the manual) I don't think the DM1000 has either.

Of course, we know nothing more about what the OP actually wants. And without that, we can only second guess'

And, while the X32 is a good example of a contemporary budget desk with flexibility, I pointed out that the flexibility of tap points was common in contemporary digital desks.
You must belong to the "preamp of the month club."

You have turned this into a Rorschach Test. You are projecting your needs and wants. Just for starters you refer to budget desks. My first question in my post in this thread is budget! The OP ignored that. The OP made no remarks about compressors yet you bring them up.
Old 19th October 2020 | Show parent
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
You have turned this into a Rorschach Test. You are projecting your needs and wants. Just for starters you refer to budget desks. My first question in my post in this thread is budget! The OP ignored that. The OP made no remarks about compressors yet you bring them up.
I explained why (for me) it was important to have a wider choice than just pre and post, and why this might become more significant in the move to a digital desk, which he may not even have considered.

But, in the absence of more information on his use case (and budget) all we can do is guess, after having moved the conversation forward.

Think I'm done here now, until the OP comes back - and please do!
Old 20th October 2020
  #15
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AlecSP, the sad reality is 20 year old japanese and German gear is still more reliable than brand new Chinese gear.
Old 20th October 2020
  #16
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I agree that we can't really make a great recommendation without more information from the OP.

1) What are you using the mixer for?
2) Are you the only one who will use the mixer?
3) How much room do you have typically to put the mixer?
4) Can you put the mixer "out front" or does it have to live on the side of the stage?
5) How much money are you willing to part with?

Now having stated these questions which I believe all of us would agree that (at a minimum) we need in order to narrow down recommendations for the OP, I still am leaning more toward AlexP's thinking here.

I would not recommend the DM1000 or the 01v .... or anything that remotely operated like that with that technology in it. The used prices I am seeing are still around $1000.00. For that kind of money there are much better mixers out there today ..... which shouldn't be a surprise to anyone since the old gal is 15 years old!

To the OP: Another problem with gear this old is that you frequently can't get it repaired if it breaks since the parts are obsolete. I don't know about you, but that would seriously upset me if I shelled out 1K and couldn't get it fixed when something happened to it.
@ deedeeyeah
Quote:
.... while the x-desks are nowhere to be seen in any professional environment ...
It seriously depends on how you define "professional environment". The OP is asking for a 16 channel desk with 6 sends. This market of "professional" has an X32 at every other venue you walk into. It is the most prolific mixer in history and is insanely popular in small and medium venues.
Old 20th October 2020 | Show parent
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneEng View Post
(...) It seriously depends on how you define "professional environment". The OP is asking for a 16 channel desk with 6 sends. This market of "professional" has an X32 at every other venue you walk into. It is the most prolific mixer in history and is insanely popular in small and medium venues (...)
there's a difference between 'popular'/commercially successful and 'professional' as well as between continents/countries: over here, some newbie bands might carry a x-rack mixer for their inears or as a keyboard submixer but you won't see any x-desks at foh of in monitor land! for pretty good reasons imo: how long did it take them to get the patching right? did they ever add expanders (not gates)? ever compared their pseudo efx emulations to a real quantec? etc.

anyway, my point is that unless you're buying used, buy local: calrec or cadac if you're in the uk, maybe soundcraft (if they still have some manufacturing left in the old world) or a&h (although they are manufacturing in south east asia)...

...but do not buy from a company that has a long history of copyright infringement, questionable business policies, dubious employee conditions, poor environmental standards and which has moved the tax domicile of some brands to an off-shore tax heaven!
Old 20th October 2020 | Show parent
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
there's a difference between 'popular'/commercially successful and 'professional' as well as between continents/countries: over here, some newbie bands might carry a x-rack mixer for their inears or as a keyboard submixer but you won't see any x-desks at foh of in monitor land! for pretty good reasons imo: how long did it take them to get the patching right? did they ever add expanders (not gates)? ever compared their pseudo efx emulations to a real quantec? etc.

anyway, my point is that unless you're buying used, buy local: calrec or cadac if you're in the uk, maybe soundcraft (if they still have some manufacturing left in the old world) or a&h (although they are manufacturing in south east asia)...

...but do not buy from a company that has a long history of copyright infringement, questionable business policies, dubious employee conditions, poor environmental standards and which has moved the tax domicile of some brands to an off-shore tax heaven!
Fair enough. I won't mince words on what constitutes "professional" in any given market. I will re-word. The X32 mixers are in more weekend warrior bars than any other mixer .... and for good reason. They offer insane features and sound quality for the money.

As for the business aspects, most companies do what ever they can to make as much profit as they can. They have no morals and are only beholden to what brings in the most profit. It is the nature of the beast and is true of nearly all successful companies.

If I only purchased goods and services from companies that were morally driven, I would have to walk to work and would starve to death.

Still, I applaud your moral stand (serious). I only wish that this is how the world worked
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