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Multiple 2.4Ghz wireless systems on same stage
Old 8th October 2020
  #1
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Multiple 2.4Ghz wireless systems on same stage

Hi there,

We are considering buying the XVive U4 in ear monitoring system (total of 5x sets) for our band. Two members already use their U2 system for transmitting (2x guitars) and the bassist and I use Line 6 wireless (1x bass, 1x vocal), also 2.4gHz. The U2 for guitars have 4 channels each, the U4 has 6 channels. Basically I need to know there will be enough frequencies free in the 2.4ghz range for 4x members to transmit and 5x members to receive (9x different frequencies total?) without the devices' frequencies clashing.

Hope you guys can help?

Cheers, Dan
Old 8th October 2020
  #2
S21
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I must admit I have never actually used the XVive gear, this response is from reading the manuals online. I do have 8x channels of Line-6 in RF1 mode.

Excuse the poor english where I have cut-n-pasted verbatim from the manuals:

U2 1~4 channels are the same as U3/U3C/U4 1~4 channels,
U2, U3/U3C and U4 use in sametime max is 6 sets.

U2
CHANNEL1 2402MHZ,2480MHZ,2482MHZ
CHANNEL2 2408MHZ,2472MHZ,2474MHZ
CHANNEL3 2420MHZ,2456MHZ,2458MHZ ** THESE ARE DIFFERENT FROM U3/U4, MIGHT BE A TYPO
CHANNEL4 2432MHZ,2448MHZ,2450MHZ ** THESE ARE DIFFERENT FROM U3/U4, MIGHT BE A TYPO

U3
CH1 2402MHz, 2480MHz, 2482MHz
CH2 2408MHz, 2472MHz, 2474MHz
CH3 2416MHz, 2464MHz, 2466MHz
CH4 2434MHz, 2440MHz, 2442MHz
CH5 2427MHz, 2448MHz, 2450MHz
CH6 2422MHz, 2456MHz, 2458MHz

U4
CH1 2402MHz, 2480MHz, 2482MHz
CH2 2408MHz, 2472MHz, 2474MHz
CH3 2416MHz, 2464MHz, 2466MHz
CH4 2434MHz, 2440MHz, 2442MHz
CH5 2427MHz, 2448MHz, 2450MHz
CH6 2422MHz, 2456MHz, 2458MHz
Old 8th October 2020
  #3
S21
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Here are the Line-6 frequencies. I'd only operate Line-6 in RF1 mode.

In my view:

RF1 = jams your wifi
RF2 = jammed by your wifi

Attached Thumbnails
Multiple 2.4Ghz wireless systems on same stage-line-6-frequencies.png  
Old 8th October 2020
  #4
S21
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So XVive will only do 6, plus two from your existing Line-6. That falls short of nine.

There are some obvious collisions of channels between the two systems. XVive Ch2 and L6/RF1 Ch5 for example. Could you find two working channels out of the Line-6 set? Probably.

It's quite a bit of gear to buy and hope it will work. You might be able to set 'hostile' channel sets between your existing XVive and L6 gear to get a feel for how it goes.
Old 8th October 2020
  #5
S21
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Further to my last post, it also depends on what Line 6 gear you have for channels. Some gear will only give you six channels rather than 12/14. That makes it harder.
Old 9th October 2020
  #6
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Thanks a lot for the extensive replies! You are already 100 times better than Xvive customer support. They sent me a single paragraph email. I will go through all the info you sent. At first glance it does seem like I might be overstretching and will need to buy at least 1 or 2 systems which are not on the 2.4ghz band to avoid clashing.
Old 9th October 2020 | Show parent
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S21 View Post
Further to my last post, it also depends on what Line 6 gear you have for channels. Some gear will only give you six channels rather than 12/14. That makes it harder.
My mic has 12 channels and the bass has 6.
Old 9th October 2020
  #8
S21
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I rearranged those tables and sorted by frequency. 1st char: X=XVive, 1=L6 RF1, 2=L6 RF2. Last char (a..e) is which of the multiple frequencies it is. Middle digit(s) are channel number.

2401 203a
2402 X1a 101a
2403
2404 102a
2405 212a
2406 103a
2407 211a 104a
2408 X2a 105a
2409
2410 214a 106a
2411
2412 107a
2413 209a
2414 108a
2415 109a
2416 X3a 210a
2417 110a
2418
2419 213a 111a
2420
2421 112a
2422 X6a 202a
2423 102b
2424
2425 201a 104b
2426 109e
2427 X5a 106b
2428 205a
2429 108b
2430 206a 110b
2431 112b
2432
2433 207a 101b
2434 X4a
2435 103b
2436 208a
2437 105b
2438
2439 212b 107b
2440 X4b 109b
2441 111b
2442 X4c 214b
2443 104c
2444 213b
2445 108c
2446
2447 204a 112c
2448 X5b 101c
2449 105c
2450 X5c 203b
2451 109c
2452
2453 205b 102c
2454 106c
2455 110c
2456 X6b 209b
2457 103c
2458 X6c 210b
2459 107c
2460
2461 206b 111c
2462
2463 101d
2464 X3b 211b 112d
2465 104d
2466 X3c 107d
2467 207b
2468 110d
2469 208b
2470 102d
2471 109d
2472 X2b 202b 105d
2473
2474 X2c 108d
2475 201b 112e
2476 111d
2477 103d
2478 204b 106d
2479
2480 X1b
2481
2482 X1c
Old 9th October 2020
  #9
S21
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So it looks like if you use all six XVive channels you don't get direct 'numerical' collisions with:

Line 6 RF1 Channels: 2, 3, 4, 10, 11
or
Line 6 RF2 Channels: 5, 6, 7, 8, 13 (but I find wifi hurts RF2 mode)

.

But it's hard to know how wide the emissions on each frequency are.

L6 frequency choices can be on adjacent "MHz" so I'd assume their emissions are less than 1 MHz wide.

XVive frequency choices are never on adjacent MHz. That might imply they are wider than 1MHz.

.

All of these systems are meant to spread their emissions over a wide-ish range of spectrum (ie not be narrowband like 25kHz FM) and it isn't easy to find out how these proprietary systems interact with each other's interference.

As you have access to some gear it might be worth testing some bad collisions (eg XVive Ch2 against L6 RF1 Ch5) to see what happens.

Last edited by S21; 9th October 2020 at 08:51 PM..
Old 9th October 2020
  #10
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FWIW I wouldn't use 2.4 GHz for anything that needs to be reliable.
Old 9th October 2020 | Show parent
  #11
S21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetam View Post
FWIW I wouldn't use 2.4 GHz for anything that needs to be reliable.
I understand these worries too. But they aren't the only worries in wireless. Issues include:

- Up-front affordability
- Long-term availability of spectrum (how long will my investment last?)
- ROI
- Reliability
- Audio Quality
- Compatibility with other systems
- Simultaneous channels supported
- Geographic freedom
- Latency
- Market acceptability
Old 12th October 2020 | Show parent
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetam View Post
FWIW I wouldn't use 2.4 GHz for anything that needs to be reliable.
Really don't understand the snobbery against 2.4ghz and Line 6 generally. Always used it for 5 years, never had any issues with range or interference. Also I roadied for much bigger bands like Crazy Lixx, their singer uses the same Line 6 wireless handheld mic at big festivals, he always sounds great. I bought mine after hearing his.
Old 12th October 2020 | Show parent
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danbb View Post
Really don't understand the snobbery against 2.4ghz and Line 6 generally. Always used it for 5 years, never had any issues with range or interference. Also I roadied for much bigger bands like Crazy Lixx, their singer uses the same Line 6 wireless handheld mic at big festivals, he always sounds great. I bought mine after hearing his.
It isn't snobbery. Microwaves are more sensitive to obstacles than UHF. This is especially noticeable with beltpacks.
Another reason why 2.4 GHz can be problematic is the vast amount of consumer devices operating in this frequency range. I've seen cases where everything worked perfectly until the audience came in.
Anyway, if it works for you, great.
Old 12th October 2020 | Show parent
  #14
S21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetam View Post
It isn't snobbery. Microwaves are more sensitive to obstacles than UHF. This is especially noticeable with beltpacks.
Another reason why 2.4 GHz can be problematic is the vast amount of consumer devices operating in this frequency range. I've seen cases where everything worked perfectly until the audience came in.
Anyway, if it works for you, great.
I started with ew100, but then got some Line 6 for using with Smaart as it is compander-free.

I get worried about additional investments in UHF TV spectrum. On paper the spectrum looks safe to me, but I always find myself worried that this position is "betting against the Internet". One day someone might make this gear illegal to use.

2.4GHz definitely has higher losses in propagation. 10dB+ worse. But i can always (in my case) make my gear be physically closer than major sources of interference.

The build of the upper-level line 6 gear is very good. Inbuilt antenna distribution on their HD-V70/75 receivers is also a great feature.

So at present I have 8ch of Line 6, and 8ch (11ch incl ENG receivers) of ew100. It all works well for me.
Old 24th October 2020 | Show parent
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetam View Post
It isn't snobbery. Microwaves are more sensitive to obstacles than UHF. This is especially noticeable with beltpacks.
Another reason why 2.4 GHz can be problematic is the vast amount of consumer devices operating in this frequency range. I've seen cases where everything worked perfectly until the audience came in.
Anyway, if it works for you, great.
Don't know how things are where you live, but here in the UK mobile devices on 4G only use 800MHz, 1.4GHz, 1.8GHz, 2.3GHz and 2.6GHz bands. It's only wi-fi routers which may use 2.4Ghz but routers at venues nowadays are always set to 5Ghz deliberately to avoid wireless interference so that's probably why I've never had any issues gigging in the UK.
Old 24th October 2020 | Show parent
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S21 View Post
The build of the upper-level line 6 gear is very good. Inbuilt antenna distribution on their HD-V70/75 receivers is also a great feature.
Agreed. My G30 guitar belt pack is kind of flimsy and weak plastic. The battery slot has to be held shut with rubber bands to make it work nowadays. But belt pack for x55-hs is metal casing and feels much heavier and solid. The x75-hhtx mic is equally well built.
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