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Can I use the digital mixer built-in EQ instead of the BOSE speaker controller?
Old 1 week ago
  #1
Gear Head
 
Granny Nakajima's Avatar
 

Can I use the digital mixer built-in EQ instead of the BOSE speaker controller?

Hi, I'm considering buying speakers for a small outdoor PA. (for main speaker.)
Some of the candidates are BOSE products. There are some cheap ones in the second hand market.

But, some BOSE speakers require a dedicated controller like the SP-24.
https://www.thomann.de/gb/bose_controlspace_sp_24.htm

These are expensive and rarely found in the second hand market.
So, I want to use a BOSE speakers without such a controller.

The main job of this controller is like an equalizer.
So, I thought that if I could imitate "EQ processing on the controller" well, I could use the speaker without the controller.

I am planning to use room correction software as a way to find the right EQ curve for running the speakers flat.
(I have IK multimedia ARC System 2.5.)

Room correction software displays the "How it was processed" when performing room correction.

Here is an example. This is from ARC 3 Trial.

In other words, room correction software will show me "EQ curve to run BOSE speaker flat".
I plan to adjust the EQ curve in the digital mixer with reference to the EQ curve of the room correction software.
If I could do that, I expect BOSE speakers to run flat without a controller.

Do you think this plan will work?

If this plan seems to work, I consider BOSE products as one of the candidates.
If this plan doesn't work, I would avoid BOSE products.

Last edited by Granny Nakajima; 1 week ago at 04:27 PM.. Reason: Clarification of ambiguous expressions
Old 1 week ago
  #2
Lives for gear
 

Technically what you propose will work, but you should avoid Bose like the plague. All Bose has ever done is to use cheap drivers in unusual configurations, then claim they found some magic physics that makes them the best speaker ever conceived.
Old 1 week ago
  #3
Gear Nut
 

Cheap Bose? Wow that is a new one. You should ask yourself why these are going so cheap.

Just how much PA do you need? And what Bose models are you considering?
Old 1 week ago
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
Mike M's Avatar
Bose speakers....

I own and use Bose speakers for some of my applications:
802-II speakers for choral work
402 speakers for band monitors and small speaking applications
502BP subwoofer speakers used with the 802's for small DJ/Band sound "indoors".

I use the appropriate Bose processors: (802C, 402C for full-range and biamp operation) or 402E used with the 402's and a powered mixer.

I've tried the cabs without the appropriate processor but don't waste your time...

The processors (mentioned above) are analog (not digital). I have not had a need to switch to Bose digital processors...

The 802-II sound better than the 802-III series btw

The above for a rock band on a football field - they won't cut it....
Old 1 week ago
  #5
Gear Head
 
Granny Nakajima's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AC2SPL View Post
Technically what you propose will work, but you should avoid Bose like the plague. All Bose has ever done is to use cheap drivers in unusual configurations, then claim they found some magic physics that makes them the best speaker ever conceived.
Thank you for your answers and advice.
I have read some threads in Gearslutz. It seems that most people dislike BOSE here...


Quote:
Originally Posted by paul o View Post
Cheap Bose? Wow that is a new one. You should ask yourself why these are going so cheap.

Just how much PA do you need? And what Bose models are you considering?
Maybe the list price of the BOSE product is too expensive.
The second-hand selling price will show the true value of the product.

I plan on a very small outdoor PA system.
The amount of all PA equipment will fit in one compact pickup truck.
When the performers was one person, I'd also use the bed of a compact pickup truck as a stage.

Most of the sound output from the main speakers is vocals.
It will occasionally output the sound of acoustic guitars or keyboards from DI.

The number of audiences is about 10 to 100.
Due to the influence of COVID19, the audience will have a social distance.
So, I want to buy a pair of line array speakers as my main speakers.
Line array speakers deliver clear sound to distant audiences.
Also, the change in volume with distance from the speaker is small.
So, I want line arrays as my main speakers right now.

I'm going to buy second-hand products. My budget is around $300 to $500 for the pair of main speaker.

These are the BOSE products I'm interested in right now.

BOSE Panaray MA12
https://pro.bose.com/en_us/products/...ray_ma_12.html

BOSE Panaray MA12EX
https://pro.bose.com/en_us/products/..._ma_12_ex.html

and, BOSE la1612
(It is an old product. Occasionally appears in the second-hand market.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike M View Post
I own and use Bose speakers for some of my applications:
802-II speakers for choral work
402 speakers for band monitors and small speaking applications
502BP subwoofer speakers used with the 802's for small DJ/Band sound "indoors".

I use the appropriate Bose processors: (802C, 402C for full-range and biamp operation) or 402E used with the 402's and a powered mixer.

I've tried the cabs without the appropriate processor but don't waste your time...

The processors (mentioned above) are analog (not digital). I have not had a need to switch to Bose digital processors...

The 802-II sound better than the 802-III series btw

The above for a rock band on a football field - they won't cut it....
Thank you for sharing your experience.

I have heard the sound of BOSE 802 II.
It's installed in my local club. I felt it wasn't bad for vocals.

I plan to use the room correction software together to adjust the EQ of the digital mixer.
Do you think it also would be a waste of time?
That is an important point for me.
Old 1 week ago
  #6
Lives for gear
 

This is the driver in the Bose 802 II
https://www.proacousticsusa.com/bose...nt-driver.html
Plastic basket, 1 ohm. This is what I'm talking about, Bose uses drivers that are barely fit for car audio or ghetto blasters.

Here's a cute sensitivity rating:
http://www.drinklemann.co.uk/802.html
99 dB SPL (1 W, 1 m, 300 Hz - 3kHz)
92 dB SPL (1 W, 1 m, 50 Hz - 16kHz pink noise)
So below 300Hz and above 3kHz they lose 7dB of response, just like one would expect of a crappy 4" speaker. No wonder they need a fancy processor...

Nobody cares what brand is on a speaker like that, and anyone with any understanding of loudspeakers would know those can't possibly produce sound of any remotely professional quality.
Old 1 week ago
  #7
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granny Nakajima View Post
I plan on a very small outdoor PA system.
The amount of all PA equipment will fit in one compact pickup truck.
When the performers was one person, I'd also use the bed of a compact pickup truck as a stage.

Most of the sound output from the main speakers is vocals.
It will occasionally output the sound of acoustic guitars or keyboards from DI.

The number of audiences is about 10 to 100.
Ok, so your PA requirements are rather modest overall.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Granny Nakajima View Post
Due to the influence of COVID19, the audience will have a social distance.
So, I want to buy a pair of line array speakers as my main speakers.
Line array speakers deliver clear sound to distant audiences.
Also, the change in volume with distance from the speaker is small.
So, I want line arrays as my main speakers right now.
It appears you have read up on line array theory but here is a reality check, all that applies to something like this..


But not so much to a Bose MA12. The reason is all about array length, to get the type of performance you describe from a column of speakers it has to be at least as long as the longest wavelength(lowest frequency) it produces.. which is 11.5 feet at 100hz, and of course the system has to be able to comfortably produce the target SPL at the most distant seats. Now you don't need something that big for what you are doing but given the rather modest output capabilities(115dB peak) of the MA12 you should probably try to get 4 of these columns for the larger events where they would be deployed in 2 column high stacks, and augment with subs to handle everything from 100hz down. You should not have any problem flattening response of these things with the EQ available in a digital mixer.
Old 1 week ago
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Pro Sound Guy's Avatar
 

Ya cant squeeze blood out of a turnip.
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