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Shure UR, Shure QLXD, or Sennheiser SKM5000
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1
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Shure UR, Shure QLXD, or Sennheiser SKM5000

I am considering which wireless microphone system to buy. The three options are under my consideration, which also fit my budget:4500RMB(about 636 US dollar)-5500RMB(about 777 US dollar).

1. Shure QLXD with the SM58 mic head which according to my friend has the same performance/sound quality with Sennheiser SKM6000, but I am not sure about that because I haven't asked any other people to prove what he said true.
2. Second-handed Shure UR also with the SM58 mic head which is the second best analog wireless system of Shure(the best analog system is Axient which is not as commonly used in tv programs as UR for some unknown reasons)
3. Sennheiser SKM5000 with the Sennheiser 5005 condenser mic head which was the best analog wireless system of Sennheiser before SKM5200
(SKM5200 does have better sound quality than SKM5000 such as less total harmonic distortion, but I don't think the difference can be noticed.
And the appearances of them are almost the same except for that SKM5200 has a screen on its back and SKM5000 doesn't have one)

If I buy the Shure QLXD or Shure UR, I can use not only Shure mic heads, but also Sennheiser and Neumann ones by using an adapter.
But if I choose the Sennheiser SKM5000 which I think is a little more good-looking than Shure, there is no such an adapter that enables me to use Shure mic heads on a Sennheiser transmitter. Thus, there would be fewer choices of the mic heads.

I cannot afford another mic head now, and I am sure SM58 is not bad because I have a wired one.

But I am not sure whether the Sennheiser 5005 condenser mic head is good because there is no such a wired version of 5005 and thus I cannot get much info of it. If it is not good, I cannot afford a better one such as Sennheiser 5235 or Neumann 104/105 mic head now. Also, there is no such an inexpensive mic head like SM58 or Beta 58 for SKM5000/5200, because unlike all Shure microphones using the same mount, SKM5000/5200's mount is different from other Sennheiser microphones'. Thus, it is understandable that there is no inexpensive mic head for SKM5000/5200 because generally, people who can afford Sennheiser's best products: SKM5000/5200 don't want and also don't need cheap mic heads.

Briefly, that's what I am hesitating about:whether Shure QLXD is really so awesome: it has the same sound quality with SKM6000, whether UR as the second best analog wireless system of Shure is better than QLXD, and whether SKM5000 as the previous(before SKM5200) best analog wireless system of Sennheiser, which I think is the most good-looking one, is any worse or better than the current second best analog wireless system of Shure: the UR and is worthwhile to buy while I don't know if its original 5005 condenser mic head is good and I cannot afford another mic head now.

Thanks for all answers!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2
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loujudson's Avatar
I always prefer Sennheiser. I don't know any of those models, though.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3
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MIKEHARRIS's Avatar
whomever told you the QLXD is equal to the 6000 is wrong.
and it seems you may be comparing incomplete systems...a wireless system has 3 components. the transmitter...the head...and receiver.
the battery holder alone for a SKM5000 is over $200..expensive system...make sure its complete
Old 4 weeks ago
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKEHARRIS View Post
whomever told you the QLXD is equal to the 6000 is wrong.
and it seems you may be comparing incomplete systems...a wireless system has 3 components. the transmitter...the head...and receiver.
the battery holder alone for a SKM5000 is over $200..expensive system...make sure its complete
I suppose what my friend meant is that
with the same mic head, say Neumann kk205, only comparing the wireless part(the transmitter and the receiver), the sound qualities/ the lossless-ness of voices of SKM6000 and QLXD are the same.

Understanding like what I say above, is what he said true?

He also told me digital systems can transmit totally lossless voice while analog systems compress the audio dynamic range with a high frequency rolloff and also bring a special and dulcet "warm voice"(that's what we call it in Chinese, that's something you can also hear in LP/vinyl records, analog mixers, or other analog audio devices.) However, the digital systems such as QLXD, ULXD, SKM6000, and SKM9000 have the same voice as wired microphones so they are definitely better than analog wireless microphones.

I still consider Shure UR and SKM5000 because they are almost the best analog products, maybe they're not necessarily worse than QLXD, but I am not sure. That's why I came to here to ask for help.

A second-handed normally functioning SKM5000 with the 5005 mic head just costs 3500RMB(about $496) now; a receiver for it costs 3000RMB(about $425). They are so cheap just because they were first released in about 1999. Of course, a brand new battery holder for SKM5000/5200 does cost $200 but I don't need one.

Thank you for answering!

Btw, do u have any suggestions?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #5
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In answer to your question I would purchase the QLXD, if not possible then the UHF-R.

Ive had the SKM5000 system with 5005 capsule. The capsule is nice Sound but depends what you want to use it for? Live music, corporate etc... the 5005 capsule is a good all rounder - I used it for jazz vocals in a live band along with a few corporate events.. I sold the system as I didn’t like the noise floor of the system. There was also harmonic distortion present which I could notice.

I bought UHF-R instead which meets all my requirements. I now have 8 channels of UHF-R still in hire stock. One benefit with the Shure wireless systems is the fact you can change the capsules with those across the whole Shure range and then with an adapter Sennheiser, Neumann, Audix, DPA.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6
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Never liked Sennheiser much. Slow to setup and if I had problems with interference it always was with Sennheiser (up to 2000 series).

Would take the qlx-d anytime over a Sennheiser.
Regarding the SM58 Head...that really depends on what you need. For corporate work I like the SM87 heads or KSM9, for music it depends on the style of the voice, stage setting,...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #7
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Just got a suggestion from another friend.

He told me that Shure UR is definitely better than QLXD.

With QLXD as a digital system, there is no a sound color that is always present in analog systems, so I have to use a good mic amp to color the voice or the voice would be too dry and not dulcet at all.

And he also told me that Shure UR can let the singer sing more easily because as an analog system it has some special voice characteristics.

And more interestingly, he told me that even the best analog system of Sennheiser SKM5200 is always unstable and SKM9000 is much worse than SKM5200. However, Shure Axient Digital is quite good but still needs a mic amp to color the voice because digital systems don't give any color to the sound.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #8
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I prefer to give "color" when I want toand not always have it.

I also can't remember hearing color in the UR series.

The only thing where an analog wireless has an advantage is latency.

Even while the 2ms or so of the qlxd is not too big, with the latency of a digital mixer and the latency of amps with DSP, latency may add up to being too big for monitoring use for some artists.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenderboy View Post
I prefer to give "color" when I want toand not always have it.

I also can't remember hearing color in the UR series.

The only thing where an analog wireless has an advantage is latency.

Even while the 2ms or so of the qlxd is not too big, with the latency of a digital mixer and the latency of amps with DSP, latency may add up to being too big for monitoring use for some artists.
He told me that the high frequency of QLXD/ULXD(with the same voice) is not "clean", also does the SKM9000 which according to him is much worse than SKM5200, but the best digital system of Shure--Axient Digital is quite good.

and coming to your so-called latency of amps with DSP, I don't totally agree with you, although I haven't used any digital mixer.

When I use the compressor, delay, reverb, etc., and also use the monitor in the Logic Pro, I do can notice the latency.
But when I use a DSP of Yamaha AG03(including a compressor, an EQ, and a reverb) which is definitely digital because the setting are all in a computer software and there are only two buttons to turn them on or off on the mixer, I feel no latency at all.

And based on his info and a little of my understandings, all mic amps give a color. It is just some amps give a relatively clean voice while some give a noticeable color. And like wired microphones, digital systems much rely on a good amp or the voice can't be good at all.
Even the voices of wired microphones for stage use such as KMS105 or KSM8/KSM9, rather than microphones for studio such as U87 or TLM103 whose voices are definitely much affected by other devices as we all know, are affected by the quality of the amps.
But on analog systems such as SKM5200 and the UR, the voices are less affected by the amps because the systems already give a good voice.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #10
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Quote:
He told me that the high frequency of QLXD/ULXD(with the same voice) is not "clean"
Quote:
the SKM9000 (...) according to him is much worse than SKM5200
Quote:
the best digital system
Quote:
He told me that Shure UR is definitely better than QLXD

etc.



...i suggest you get in touch with the largest live sound rental company around your place: maybe they got some different systems for you to try but in any case,

find someone else to advise you!

there are no absolute criteria, results always depend on context/situation/application... - find out about yours, then get some hands-on experience/use the gear within your setting; only then decide!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #11
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie He View Post
He told me that the high frequency of QLXD/ULXD(with the same voice) is not "clean", also does the SKM9000 which according to him is much worse than SKM5200, but the best digital system of Shure--Axient Digital is quite good.

and coming to your so-called latency of amps with DSP, I don't totally agree with you, although I haven't used any digital mixer.

When I use the compressor, delay, reverb, etc., and also use the monitor in the Logic Pro, I do can notice the latency.
But when I use a DSP of Yamaha AG03(including a compressor, an EQ, and a reverb) which is definitely digital because the setting are all in a computer software and there are only two buttons to turn them on or off on the mixer, I feel no latency at all.
For example a Midas Pro Series Mixer may habe a latency of 6ms. If you use a qlxd with about 2ms of latency and a amp with DSP (think lacoustics, labgruppen/lake or d&b) you may well be over 10ms and some musicians may find that offputting.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenderboy View Post
For example a Midas Pro Series Mixer may habe a latency of 6ms. If you use a qlxd with about 2ms of latency and a amp with DSP (think lacoustics, labgruppen/lake or d&b) you may well be over 10ms and some musicians may find that offputting.
Well, according to the official documents, Shure QLXD/ULXD/Axient Digital has the same latency--less than 2.9ms, and SKM6000/9000 has a 3.0ms or 3.2ms latency(depending on which mode to use).

And now, all TV programs are using SKM9000 or Shure Axient Digital, and obviously, most audiences cannot tell the improvement from SKM5200/Shure UR/Shure Axient to SKM9000/Shure AD. If the latency can be noticed, singers would definitely not use a microphone with very minor improvement that may not be told but very off-putting latency.
And I don't think there is any difference that can be told either between the 10ms latency of digital microphones and (10ms-3.2ms of the digital microphones)=6.8ms of analog microphones with no latency and other digital devices.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #13
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie He View Post
Well, according to the official documents, Shure QLXD/ULXD/Axient Digital has the same latency--less than 2.9ms, and SKM6000/9000 has a 3.0ms or 3.2ms latency(depending on which mode to use).

And now, all TV programs are using SKM9000 or Shure Axient Digital, and obviously, most audiences cannot tell the improvement from SKM5200/Shure UR/Shure Axient to SKM9000/Shure AD. If the latency can be noticed, singers would definitely not use a microphone with very minor improvement that may not be told but very off-putting latency.
And I don't think there is any difference that can be told either between the 10ms latency of digital microphones and (10ms-3.2ms of the digital microphones)=6.8ms of analog microphones with no latency and other digital devices.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...kvFUFKTIFloxIA


IF latency is an issue, analog wireless has its merits is all I'm saying.
Otherwise I prefer digital wireless.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
etc.



...i suggest you get in touch with the largest live sound rental company around your place: maybe they got some different systems for you to try but in any case,

find someone else to advise you!

there are no absolute criteria, results always depend on context/situation/application... - find out about yours, then get some hands-on experience/use the gear within your setting; only then decide!
Thank you!

However, in this small city where I live, there is no such a big company that sells or rents those expensive microphones I mentioned.
There are only small shops that only rent or sell Shure very cheap microphones such as SLX, that sells karaoke microphones at about 2000RMB(about $283) which definitely don't fit my requirements, and that need to order them from bigger dealers in big cities if I need to rent or buy those expensive microphones.

As we all know, if everyone could go to somewhere to try different mixers, monitors, IEMs, or microphones, which seems to be the best way to choose a product most of the time, there wouldn't have been so many questions about microphones and other audio devices.

And I did ask many other people. One person told me that

digital systems such as QLXD/ULXD that has the same sound quality as SKM6000 and that digital systems can transmit the same voice of wired microphones while analog systems compress the audio dynamic range with a high frequency rolloff and also bring a special and dulcet "warm voice"(that's what we call it in Chinese, that's something you can also hear in LP/vinyl records, analog mixers, and other analog audio devices.). No matter how dulcet the voices of analog systems are, digital systems' voices are totally the same as wired ones, so digital systems are better.

However, another told me that the high frequency of QLXD/ULXD is not "clean" and also does SKM9000, and for this reason, SKM9000 is worse than SKM5200.

They gave me nearly opposite answers. And there are so many different people giving me opposite answers. That's why I still haven't deleted this thread. I need more answers to finally make my decision.

And I didn't show any intentions to buy things from any people I ask, and I told them I wanted to buy secondhand microphones. So they wouldn't recommend stuff that they know is not as good as another at the same price or lie to me about products' performance just for selling them to me. But staff members at an audio device shop would do so, and they still would mislead me about some products' performance like other people giving me biased info as you say.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenderboy View Post
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...kvFUFKTIFloxIA


IF latency is an issue, analog wireless has its merits is all I'm saying.
Otherwise I prefer digital wireless.
Thank you for this!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #16
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MIKEHARRIS's Avatar
i have a wellknown artist who has moved to the 9000/6000 system from her 5200. She has had no issues with the Sernnheiser sonically and I question the ears of your opinionated friend. She also switched to rhe Mipro 909 digital in ears...and again no issues...sonically or latency.
we just supplied 2x of these 'inferior' 5200's to Ricky Martin..i doubt your karaoke performance will suffer with any of your choices
Old 3 weeks ago
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKEHARRIS View Post
i have a wellknown artist who has moved to the 9000/6000 system from her 5200. She has had no issues with the Sernnheiser sonically and I question the ears of your opinionated friend. She also switched to rhe Mipro 909 digital in ears...and again no issues...sonically or latency.
we just supplied 2x of these 'inferior' 5200's to Ricky Martin..i doubt your karaoke performance will suffer with any of your choices
Thank you!

I never think 5200 is "inferior" or not good because my dad bought it in 2012 for karaoke and there haven't been any problems. Also, all TV programs were using 5200 and Shure UR before Shure AD and 9000. No one would choose a not-good product. But I believe that friend because he works at this field and said that during many performances, 5200 just turns it off due to poor contact of the battery. He didn't say 5200 doesn't has a good voice. He just said that 5200 is sometimes unstable, more than Shure UR.

And of course, though 5200 has a good voice as we all know, I cannot afford it, so it's not under my consideration at all.

But I don't think my performance would suffer with any of my choices, because those are the best products I can get with my budget. I have no other options. Definitely, I just want to choose the best product within my budget, not the best product in the world. If I can afford the best product in the world----Shure AD or SKM6000/9000, I would just buy it rather than ask here.
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